How do heat, terrain modifiers "work"?

[Doug-Thompson]

If a cavalry unit has a -4 penalty for forests, for instance, how does that work? Is attack reduced by 4, or what?

Then there's things like heat penalties, which I assume tires a unit out faster, which creates morale and movement penalties.

Then there's camels and elephants and all that.

[Ulstan]

Are there 'winter penalties'? There should be for Russia :laugh4:

[Doug-Thompson]

Are there 'winter penalties'? There should be for Russia :laugh4:


Yes -- for snow.

There are penalties for:

Snow
Heat
Sand
Scrub
Forest
Fighting a camel
Fighting an elephant

and ...

Others I forgot

[Kobal2fr]

I also wonder what the effect of weather is... Some missile units have a "don't work well in rain" attribute, but I don't know what it really does, if it affects snow as well, what is the precise effect of fog...

Or even Fatigue, come to think about it. I know that an Exhausted unit will fight worse than a Fresh one... but how worse exactly ? :/

[CMcMahon]

Not worse enough to matter, in my experience.

[WhiskeyGhost]

I also wonder what the effect of weather is... Some missile units have a "don't work well in rain" attribute, but I don't know what it really does, if it affects snow as well, what is the precise effect of fog...

Or even Fatigue, come to think about it. I know that an Exhausted unit will fight worse than a Fresh one... but how worse exactly ? :/

usually when i see units tire out, they just route more easily, and also seem to move slower...

[Doug-Thompson]

Well, I'm a little relieved to see that I'm not the only one who doesn't know this. Still, I'd rather have the information.

[Shahed]

I don't know it either. One thing I can tell you though, in vanilla it does'nt make enough of a difference. Only in extreme cases it matters (as in the Mongol custom battle challenge). In LTC 2.30 it seems to matter more, Lusted is probably your man. Unless I'm imagining it in LTC 2.30 I actually have to be careful how I move my army about because they seem to tire a lot faster.

[crpcarrot]

without the log files like in MTW i think none has been to decipher them yet.

but like sinan says the affects are way too toned down in M2 except for the elephant dread affects. i just hate to see trined men just run grrrrr

even the dont work well in rain dont seem to make much difference in MTW it was a real libility to have too many archers in the rain.

[Lusted]

I don't know it either. One thing I can tell you though, in vanilla it does'nt make enough of a difference. Only in extreme cases it matters (as in the Mongol custom battle challenge). In LTC 2.30 it seems to matter more, Lusted is probably your man. Unless I'm imagining it in LTC 2.30 I actually have to be careful how I move my army about because they seem to tire a lot faster.

Indeed the heat effect has been increased in LTC 2.3.

[Kobal2fr]

@Sinan : yah, moving and more importantly FIGHTING tires them a heck of a lot. And since kill rates have apparently been also lowered a tad, it makes fatigue much more important. On the whole, it feels pretty much like MTW/VI did, except that crusaders don't tire just standing still in the desert heat anymore.

[crpcarrot]

i need to get LTC

[khaos83_2000]

From my experience, Heat fatigue matters.

I played some custom battles, 1unit vs 1unit, to test some units out and it is obvious from the results that it matters.

Hassims vs norman knights.

In flat fields, norman kinights wins all the time, hands down.
In desert, hassims wins all the time, hands down.


The scare horses penalty does not seem to work very well. Camels units keep getting owned by mail knights in my custom battle. They can only barely win in the desert.

[Miracle]

The scare horses penalty does not seem to work very well. Camels units keep getting owned by mail knights in my custom battle. They can only barely win in the desert.
This is due to the general giving a huge morale boost to the knights.

In campaign camels are likely to work much better especially if the general is far away or dead.

[sapi]

Indeed the heat effect has been increased in LTC 2.3.
:yes:

I've noticed that a lot, too. Having a 50-man unit of jinettes routed by a single general (no bodyguard) and one mailed knight wouldn't have happened in vanillia :laugh4:

That said, do you have an answer to Doug's orignial question? I'm as interested as he is to understand what a -4 penalty (or whatever) actually does...

[Lusted]

Im not sure exactly, i think it's a modifier applied to both attack and defense or something, or possibly to morale as well.

[WesW]

:yes:

I've noticed that a lot, too. Having a 50-man unit of jinettes routed by a single general (no bodyguard) and one mailed knight wouldn't have happened in vanillia :laugh4:

That said, do you have an answer to Doug's orignial question? I'm as interested as he is to understand what a -4 penalty (or whatever) actually does...
IIRC, in MTW it affected fatigue plus both attack and defense stats. You should be able to tell by the stats which pop up when you right-click a unit on the battlefield.