Return to Corporal Punishment in Australian Schools?

[CountArach]

Ahhh, how I loathe the Howard Government, especially Tony Abbott...

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=273287


Abbott suggests corporal punishment return
Friday Jun 15 08:35 AEST
Federal Health Minister Tony Abbott has suggested a return to corporal punishment to ensure discipline returns to schools.

The comments came after Mr Abbott watched footage of a vicious attack on a Melbourne schoolgirl.

The grainy vision from a mobile phone showed a teenage girl repeatedly kicked in the head and body by two other teenagers.

Mr Abbott was alarmed by the footage and said it showed that current methods of discipline in schools were not working.

"I mean, we've taken corporal punishment out of the schools because we think that's brutal and yet our playgrounds seem to be becoming more brutal than ever," the minister told the Nine Network.

"Maybe a little bit more discipline in the schools would prevent some of the ugliness that we've just seen."

Mr Abbott said it was a different situation in his day.

"When I was a kid at school, if you got up to mischief you were punished, not severely, but never-the-less you were punished."

Victoria Police have cautioned two teenage girls over the assault which took place last year in Melbourne's western suburbs.



Yeah and while we are at it, lets bring back the NAZIs.

Seriously, this sickens me. The idea that we should beat children to stop bullying is ridiculous. There are better ways to solve problems than to use violence to stop violence. That just leads to situations where the children resent and hate school.

I can understand why he is saying this, I am not denying that there is violence in the playground, but seriously? Bringing back the cane?

Also did anyone notice that this is Tony Abbott talking? Our minister of HEALTH, not our Education Minister.

[Devastatin Dave]

There were a lot less shootings in our public schools when teachers could beat that ass and have a little prayer in the morning. Coincidence? maybe, but kids knew who was in charge. BRING BACK THE WHACK!!!:2thumbsup:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I have no inherent objections to punishment of by and for corporals.





:cheesy:

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Coincidence? maybe, but kids knew who was in charge. BRING BACK THE WHACK!!!

Especially now days when teachers need more than ever to be able to defend themselves. :laugh4: Its not like their torturing the kids. I always prefered a little smack than being sent to the principles office. My dad hit a lot harder.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Victoria Police have cautioned two teenage girls over the assault which took place last year in Melbourne's western suburbs.

Gee, could that be it?
*Smacks random Australian Government Authority*
You think maybe the police should prosecute them?
How can there be any doubt in Australia about this?
You have a vicious attack, and it isn't even punished, and then we need more ruler whackings in school? Isn't the idea that those scum be prosecuted to the full extent of the law obvious?

Crazed Rabbit

[CountArach]

You have a vicious attack, and it isn't even punished, and then we need more ruler whackings in school? Isn't the idea that those scum be prosecuted to the full extent of the law obvious?
One would think so, but our Governments have a track record of being incompetent.

[AntiochusIII]

There were a lot less shootings in our public schools when teachers could beat that ass and have a little prayer in the morning.Actually, no.

Isn't the idea that those scum be prosecuted to the full extent of the law obvious?Not to Mr. Abbott, apparently.

[CountArach]

There were a lot less shootings in our public schools when teachers could beat that ass and have a little prayer in the morning. Coincidence? maybe, but kids knew who was in charge. BRING BACK THE WHACK!!!:2thumbsup:
Just thought I would mention we have no prayers in schools and strict gun controls, as well as no corporal punishment... and we have very, very few school shootings. Usually those that occur are not from the students themselves.

[Ignoramus]

We definitely need corporal punishments back in schools. When students realise that there are painful consequences to their actions(not just getting suspended, which half of them couldn't care less about anyway), they will think more carefully about their actions and respect others, and most importantly, respect teachers.

However, the main problem is the lack of discipline at home. With governments all over the place bring in "anti-smacking" laws, parents are basically stripped of their right to discipline their children. That is why levels of violence, particulary in young people is increasing; they have no respect for authority anymore.

[CountArach]

We definitely need corporal punishments back in schools. When students realise that there are painful consequences to their actions(not just getting suspended, which half of them couldn't care less about anyway), they will think more carefully about their actions and respect others, and most importantly, respect teachers.
No, this breeds rebellion and contempt. Instead the root cause of the issue should be found and dealt with. I don't know what it is, but it as to be there. Hitting the children will not do anything.


However, the main problem is the lack of discipline at home. With governments all over the place bring in "anti-smacking" laws, parents are basically stripped of their right to discipline their children. That is why levels of violence, particulary in young people is increasing; they have no respect for authority anymore.
I agree with you on anti-smacking laws, but I find your dea that parents have a "right" to discipline their children to be really unusual. What gives them that right?

[Samurai Waki]

Hows about instead of going off and blaming the School System or Parents for lack of Disciplining their kids. We just go and :daisy:-ram the Perpetrators with a Felony Case, Charge them as an adult and send those mother :daisy:'s to a "Civil Work Camp" for 6 mo. (and not Jail or anything to do with Prison...I mean tough, dirty, sweaty labour for 12 hours a day 7 days a week.)

[doc_bean]

In today's society there's definately a need for stricter policy towards teenagers, they can get away with just about anything in most countries, however, I don't think corporal punishment is the bast course of action.

People who commit violent crimes, whether they be teenagers or adults, should be punished, perhaps not equally severely, but they should be. Teenagers should also be held accountable for 'jokes' such as claiming a teacher slept with him/her when it isn't true and various other things like that, they get away with too much now.

[Duke Malcolm]

A surprisingly swift comparison to the Nazis there. I would have expected it at least a few posts down.

Anyhoo...

I fully support the reintroduction of Corporal Punishment. My teachers at school thought that was a slightly extreme view, but each year I presented the proposal in some form or another...

[CountArach]

A surprisingly swift comparison to the Nazis there. I would have expected it at least a few posts down.
Thought I'd get in early and beat the rush :wink:

[Gawain of Orkeny]

No, this breeds rebellion and contempt. Instead the root cause of the issue should be found and dealt with. I don't know what it is, but it as to be there. Hitting the children will not do anything.

More liberal clap trap. Its worked for thousands of years. You didnt see the Spartans rebelling :laugh4: You dont hit them so hard as to damage them. For most kids realizing they pissed you off enough to make you strike them is enough. Like my father after a while just the 'LOOK" is enough to get your children moving. Ut oh we pissed dad off. Nothing works better with the really young. You cant reason with them if they dont understand english or life very well. If they go to run in the street you give them a little tap on the butt and say no.

[Don Corleone]

I somewhat agree with the idea of bringing corporal punishment. My 5th grade teacher was a retired boxer (don't ask). Trust me, he knew how to keep order in his class. And he didn't actually hit anybody, he would just manhandle you, or 'shake you up' as he called it. It was quite effective.

Gawain's right. The kid needs to know he's not in charge of the situation. Not knowing what's coming next is far worse. If they just sit there and tell themselves "all i have to do is listen to them mouth off", they won't respond, they'll just wait for you to run out of breath. Suspension doesn't work, as that's what they want in the first place.

I also believe in bringing back truancy officers. If we find your kid roaming the street, we bring him to your workplace and you get a fine.

But any corporal punishment will require a change to the legal system. Right now, I can already hear the trial attorneys drooling on themselves, waiting to get their hands on the first teacher that so much as speaks crossly, let alone actually whacks one of the kids.

This is why, by the way, Catholic schools do so much better in terms of behavior. Parents have to sign a waver on the way in. A few quick snaps with Sister Priscilla's steel ruler was all it took for me to figure out how to keep my mouth shut for 50 minutes at a time. It hurt!

[Gawain of Orkeny]

A few quick snaps with Sister Priscilla's steel ruler was all it took for me to figure out how to keep my mouth shut for 50 minutes at a time. It hurt!

You got that right. No lack of discipline when the Nuns are in charge. Man did that sting.

[Strike For The South]

Corproal punsihment for teenagers is sort of useless. Think about it they have never been hit before and there probably bigger and stronger than the person doing the hitting. Dads "look" only works if you you were hit when you were younger. Although in Texas these kids would probably be tried as a adults.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Corproal punsihment for teenagers is sort of useless. Think about it they have never been hit before and there probably bigger and stronger than the person doing the hitting.

Most of those I remember in regular school administering corporal punishment were either gym teachers or shop teachers. All of them were big men :laugh4: And if you go to Catholic school it wont take you long to learn :laugh4: What are you going to do punch out the Nun?

[Kralizec]

Corporal punishment? Teachers are pretty fearful here of even grabbing an annoying pupil by the arm, because they'll tell their parents the teacher's been touching them in "inappropriate places" - parents complain, teacher gets sacked.

The obvious answer is to reintroduce corporal punishment, but only if they use the yardstick.

[Strike For The South]

Most of those I remember in regular school administering corporal punishment were either gym teachers or shop teachers. All of them were big men :laugh4: And if you go to Catholic school it wont take you long to learn :laugh4: What are you going to do punch out the Nun?

Im just saying if its just getting introduced when there my age its going to cuase more problems than it solves

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Im just saying if its just getting introduced when there my age its going to cuase more problems than it solves

Well one would certainly expect you to hold that position. By the time one is a teenager hopefully corporal punishment isnt needed. I got it more often than most as I was the class clown always pulling pranks. I loved how they punished you by making you deliver supplies during study hall. It was like making you instantly cool. You went from classroom to classroom and everyone knew you were a bad boy:laugh4: I loved it. :laugh4: You even got to use the elevator.:laugh4:

[Odin]

Well one would certainly expect you to hold that position. By the time one is a teenager hopefully corporal punishment isnt needed. I got it more often than most as I was the class clown always pulling pranks. I loved how they punished you by making you deliver supplies during study hall. It was like making you instantly cool. You went from classroom to classroom and everyone knew you were a bad boy:laugh4: I loved it. :laugh4: You even got to use the elevator.:laugh4:

Odd, I never associated you with being a clown :beam:

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Odd, I never associated you with being a clown

Yeah right. Very subtle. :clown:

It seems much of my humor is lost in the printed word.:laugh4: Im sort of like Don Rickles in my sense of humor.

Dean Martin Variety Show - Don Rickles part 1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1Ib_8Can3k)

Dean Martin Variety Show - Don Rickles part 2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmf__tKxAEo)

This is truely classic.

"Tonight" show - Carson confronts Rickles - broken cig box!! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjrhzSHiEB4)

I figure a little humor never hurts.

[AntiochusIII]

More liberal clap trap. Its worked for thousands of years. You didnt see the Spartans rebelling :laugh4: Oh, of course not. They were too scared of the Helots that were always rebelling. Granted it's an extreme version of "corporal punishment" but you brought it up so...

I mean, sure, kids wouldn't really take the revenge on the system when they can just take it out terrorizing the enslaved populace.

Gawain's right. The kid needs to know he's not in charge of the situation. Not knowing what's coming next is far worse. If they just sit there and tell themselves "all i have to do is listen to them mouth off", they won't respond, they'll just wait for you to run out of breath. Suspension doesn't work, as that's what they want in the first place.There's a lot more ways to establish discipline than the stick. Face it, that's just an easy way out; it can be effective and it can be just plain crude, complete with backfiring results.

Those "back in the day" arguments have many caveats. How much has American education system changed since corporal punishment was an integral part of school? Why was it effective then -- heck, was it truly effective then? Will it be now, with different nuances and different situations?

It's oversimplifying to say the stick will bring the kids "back in line" when society itself moves so far away from those days long gone, with whole new values (annoying liberal values to some) and whole new outlooks.

The kids in the OP in question don't need corporal punishment anyway. They need to be prosecuted.

[ajaxfetish]

I agree with you on anti-smacking laws, but I find your dea that parents have a "right" to discipline their children to be really unusual. What gives them that right?
The right to discipline is attached to the responsibility to raise. If parents weren't expected to feed, clothe, educate, etc. their children, they wouldn't have the right to discipline them either.

Anyhow, if we bring back corporal punishment, we'll just be desensitizing the poor kids to violence. Next thing you know they'll start bringing their own rulers to school, and there'll be no way to stop the downward spiral. We must protect children from reality if they are to grow up into decent, functional adults.

Ajax

[Gawain of Orkeny]

There's a lot more ways to establish discipline than the stick. Face it, that's just an easy way out; it can be effective and it can be just plain crude, complete with backfiring results.

Well dont use just plain crude punishment. You have to use your brain as well not just mindless violence. All animlas do this. Watch a mother cat or dog with their babies.

[Blodrast]

Anyhow, if we bring back corporal punishment, we'll just be desensitizing the poor kids to violence. Next thing you know they'll start bringing their own rulers to school, and there'll be no way to stop the downward spiral. We must protect children from reality if they are to grow up into decent, functional adults.
Ajax

:laugh4:
Well said, Ajax! :2thumbsup:

[CountArach]

Anyhow, if we bring back corporal punishment, we'll just be desensitizing the poor kids to violence. Next thing you know they'll start bringing their own rulers to school, and there'll be no way to stop the downward spiral. We must protect children from reality if they are to grow up into decent, functional adults.
Do you get hit with rulers everday?

[Lord Winter]

I agree with Strike, I can already think of 20 ways to make it backfire, non of those violent,

[Husar]

I agree with Strike, I can already think of 20 ways to make it backfire, non of those violent,
That's because you haven't been properly indoctrinated raised until now.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

That's because you haven't been properly indoctrinated raised until now.
You mean no one has smacked him yet :laugh4: Well we can always put a grandfather clause in it. Anyone born before say 1995 cannot be hit. The rest can get used to it.:laugh4:

[naut]

One would think so, but our Governments have a track record of being incompetent.
Tell me about it, they're all bollox.


this breeds rebellion and contempt.
From experience this is true, the policies of my school which are way less drastic, but still incredibly NAZI, breeds the Anarchist/Socialist in me.

More liberal clap trap.
The NAZI policies of my school have made me wish I could rally enough of the school to have a strike. ~D

[CountArach]

lol, I tried to get people to sign up for a Communist rebellion at school. Unfortunately, I got so lazy that I stopped after like 5 people joined...

[scooter_the_shooter]

To all those who think this would desensitize children to violence..... Is that a bad thing? Think about it; how many school shootings did you hear of in the days where kids could fight it out themselves.



Before

Kid A makes fun of kid B.

Kid B has Kid A meet him after school and they fight it out.

The problem is nipped in the bud,:2thumbsup:




Now



Kid A makes fun of kid B


Kid B won't fight because he doesn't want to have the school resource officer arrest him. Or get suspended. Kid B is made fun of all through high school.


Eventually it builds up and Kid B Snaps and kills everyone.:thumbsdown:



I'm still in high school and I see this all the time. The kids that fight when they need to, keep their respect and are well adjusted individuals. The kids who won't fight, start wearing T-shirts with skulls on them and start acting weird.


Luckily I learned back in the second grade that it's better to stand up for yourself and get in trouble then do nothing. I fought my my recess bully back in the 2nd grade and eight years later were good friends.:2thumbsup:

[AntiochusIII]

How many times do I have to say this:

School shootings rate did not increase after corporal punishment fell into general disuse.

:shame:

[scooter_the_shooter]

How many times do I have to say this:

School shootings rate did not increase after corporal punishment fell into general disuse.

:shame:



Got anything to prove this?

[Marshal Murat]

Interesting name considering the post....

Corporal Punishment would strike me as a better way to deal with some trouble-makers.

Some are just hard-core rebellious bike-riders, who would sit out the butt-kicking, then go do some vandalism, something akin to the 'run-out-of-breath' deal.
Others would respond to the punishment, and stop the offending action.
Still others would try not to get into trouble to avoid said punishment.

For me, going to detention after school never hurt me, nor helped me. It showed me the consequences to my actions, but it didn't punish me (taking me away from better things to do). I toned down my communist rhetoric, but I didn't really stop it. I was almost happy to go to detention. I thought 'Boy a teacher got backbone' and didn't hand out empty threats. Then again, most of the year was empty threats and compromises, which shows us 'we can get away with it, but only in steps'.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Some are just hard-core rebellious bike-riders, who would sit out the butt-kicking, then go do some vandalism, something akin to the 'run-out-of-breath' deal.
Others would respond to the punishment, and stop the offending action.
Still others would try not to get into trouble to avoid said punishment.

And this is another good point. You must learn who it works on and who it doesnt. It also depends on why they are being punished. Does the punishment fit the crime? Many a time I was given a choice. Usually you just stuck out your hand :bullseye:

[naut]

Got anything to prove this?
I don't know the rates, but IIRC the most violent one prior to VT happened in the 50s-60s with a nut who had a M1-Carbine on a University roof.

[Petrus]

Return to Corporal Punishment in Australian Schools?

A very good thing to do.
You just have to add a few web cams and the sell the videos to “Kids the Light of Our Lives” website to make a bit of money, so everything will be all right.

[Husar]

You just have to add a few web cams and the sell the videos to “Kids the Light of Our Lives” website to make a bit of money, so everything will be all right.
I heard it's been taken down and the owner arrested.:inquisitive:
Didn't like the idea anyway, why would you want to see how someone is being punished?

[Banquo's Ghost]

I heard it's been taken down and the owner arrested.:inquisitive:
Didn't like the idea anyway, why would you want to see how someone is being punished?

I suspect Petrus was being a trifle ironic. :beam:

[Petrus]

I heard it's been taken down and the owner arrested.:inquisitive:
Didn't like the idea anyway, why would you want to see how someone is being punished?

I have no personal interest in this but i think this kind of measure can present an interest for sadistic persons, pedophiles in this case.
If i understood correctly, this web ring displayed images of children being abused or subject to violences.
I suppose this corresponds, at least for the second part of it, to the kind of stuff than can be obtained with webcams installed into schools practicing corporal punishment.
Something very interesting for sadists or pedophiles, a huge amount of data, no traceability and a good excuse if they are caught.

But it should also benefit to school institutions as they could generate a financial flux for them.
It could be possible to organize some form of competition between them, such as the the most beaten award, the most spectacular punishment price or the pedophile special distinction.

Everything that can only be very positive for children, anyway.

(yes, it's irony, thanks to BG for saying it)

[Husar]

But it should also benefit to school institutions as they could generate a financial flux for them.
I think they should sell drugs instead.
It has more of a positive ring to it than beatings on video.

[scooter_the_shooter]

Interesting name considering the post....

.



I do target shooting, not school shooting :dizzy2:

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I do target shooting, not school shooting

You have to start somewhere :laugh4: Target shooting is a gateway to violence just like pot is a gateway to drugs :skull: :laugh4: They both lead one down the path to hell.:help:

[Strike For The South]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Whitman