View Full Version : r.e.s.p.e.c.t.
http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default.aspx?tabid=178&nid=13106
There we go again.
Jeruzalem is a holy city for 3 religions, why on earth do they insist on holding it there? Is this mutual respect? Is it just me or do gay people enjoy being disliked. This is nothing more then a provocation if you ask me, shouldn't expect any pity from me if they are attacked, they pretty much deserve it.
opinions?
Papewaio
06-21-2007, 08:46
So no religious parades should be allowed in San Fran or Sydney?
Kralizec
06-21-2007, 08:48
Retards. They could do this sort of thing in Tel Aviv or several other cities without trouble, but that's apparently not offensive enough.
So no religious parades should be allowed in San Fran or Sydney?
ehhhhhh, are you sure you don't see the difference?
Well they surely shouldn't do any religious parades where I'm living
Why on earth do they do gay parades anyway? It's not like there are any heterosexual parades ... atleast not here
CountArach
06-21-2007, 09:01
I respect the statement they are making, and more power to them for choosing to go in this dangerous place.
I respect the statement they are making, and more power to them for choosing to go in this dangerous place.
The statement that their right to shake their tails is more important then centuries old traditions of millions and millions of people in the world? If they do da boom they have it comming, if you insist on provocing don't cry if it works, almost hoping for it to happen serves them right. There is such a thing as taking it too far, how can they possibly think this aids their cause?
Papewaio
06-21-2007, 09:14
Tolerance and respect are not one way streets.
Papewaio
06-21-2007, 09:19
Well they surely shouldn't do any religious parades where I'm living
Why on earth do they do gay parades anyway? It's not like there are any heterosexual parades ... atleast not here
They started out in Sydney when people still thought that gay bashing was an okay activity.
It was a way of quite honestly stating that they were queer and that they were proud of it... rather then having to live a dishonest life and be ostracized or worse if they came out of the closet.
Nowadays in Sydney it is more of a party and parade... like an adult version of St Patricks... beer, frocks and a more wide selection of fairies not just green ones.
CountArach
06-21-2007, 09:19
The statement that their right to shake their tails is more important then centuries old traditions of millions and millions of people in the world? If they do da boom they have it comming, if you insist on provocing don't cry if it works, almost hoping for it to happen serves them right. There is such a thing as taking it too far, how can they possibly think this aids their cause?
Yes, they have the right to Freedom of Speech.
Tolerance and respect are not one way streets.
Well actually that is my point.
Kralizec
06-21-2007, 09:31
I agree in principle that they should be able to do it in Jerusalem, too- but considering the situation it's a very, very bad idea. If you were the organizer would you pick a place that's going to provocate the 2 major religions in the area and could very well lead to violence, even if you could do it in other places in Israel without trouble?
Do you also think it's a good idea to hold an Orange march through an Irish catholic suburb?
I agree in principle that they should be able to do it in Jerusalem, too- but considering the situation it's a very, very bad idea. If you were the organizer would you pick a place that's going to provocate the 2 major religions in the area and could very well lead to violence, even if you could do it in other places in Israel without trouble?
Wanna bet for a crate of beer where the first suicide bomber strikes? ~D
Papewaio
06-21-2007, 10:18
Well actually that is my point.
This is nothing more then a provocation if you ask me, shouldn't expect any pity from me if they are attacked, they pretty much deserve it.
Funny definition of tolerance and respect that if someone states their sexuality they deserve to be attacked for it.
I think sexuality lies somewhere between gene and meme, it lies somewhere between ethnic group and religious affiliation in the ability to choose what you belong to.
Would you think it okay for a Muslim, a Jew or a Christian to be beaten up for it for walking around with their respective holy books?
Would it be okay for a St Patricks parade to be car bombed?
A black civil rights march to be set upon?
Funny definition of tolerance and respect that if someone states their sexuality they deserve to be attacked for it.
What respect are these guys giving religious people? Nothing, it's a deliberate slap in the face.You got me wrong, not because of their sexuality, but because their intention is provocation pure and simple. If they do this they shouldn't be surprised if someone picks up the glove. Should they be legally allowed to do this, yeah, law is law. But why there, out of all places that one? Is your definition of mutual respect 'something we must have for other people'? Millions of people are going to be deeply grieved by this, and all because they want to be the centre of attention. Should it be allowed, yes. Should they want it, hell no. Plenty other places where they can whag their tails, without insulting anyone.
Well actually that is my point.
It depends on what you rate higher, the gays' rights to have a parade in any place or the religious peoples' right to not have any gays in their holy place.
Since almost nobody would think the latter is actually a right and religious people are usually seen as nuts today, guess who wins...
It depends on what you rate higher, the gays' rights to have a parade in any place or the religious peoples' right to not have any gays in their holy place.
Of course gays should be allowed in holy places, that's not the point. It's not a matter of law it's a matter of decency and respect. This is about as decent and respectful as pissing on someone's mother's grave. When you visit a mosk you take of your shoes. When you visit a church you don't yell. When you visit a holy city you behave because it's important for a lot of people.
Behaving like this in a holy place has nothing to do with respect. In Amsterdam you can do this. In San Fransisco you can do this. So do it there.
I am not angry because the law allows it, I am angry because they want it in the first place.
What respect are these guys giving religious people? Nothing, it's a deliberate slap in the face.You got me wrong, not because of their sexuality, but because their intention is provocation pure and simple. If they do this they shouldn't be surprised if someone picks up the glove. Should they be legally allowed to do this, yeah, law is law. But why there, out of all places that one? Is your definition of mutual respect 'something we must have for other people'? Millions of people are going to be deeply grieved by this, and all because they want to be the centre of attention. Should it be allowed, yes. Should they want it, hell no. Plenty other places where they can whag their tails, without insulting anyone.
there...you just answered the question yourself....
"Should it be allowed, yes. Should they want it, hell no."
it is not ANYONE´s place to say what other people should want or not want.......if it should be allowed it should be allowed...no IF´s!
and that my friend...makes this..
case ******* closed.
Well, I think if God doesn't want them to dance around in his holy place, he'll surely find a way to rain on their parade...:juggle2:
InsaneApache
06-21-2007, 12:16
Ahh a bit of the good old smiting eh?
I agree that it's no-ones business what they do. However I would think this unnecessarily provocative.
Well, I find mosquitos in my room unnecessarily provocative - that's why I kill them as good as I can.:sweatdrop:
Well, I think if God doesn't want them to dance around in his holy place, he'll surely find a way to rain on their parade...:juggle2:
:idea2: how the hell did I forgot that!....you´re absolutelly right!
what better way for God to make his/hers/it´s presence felt then by making it rain ice the size of watermellons on these heathens??? :smash:
certainly the fact that this will have to happen in Jerusalem in the middle of the summer will pose no problem for the almighty :laugh4: ....anything less would surelly have to be considered as a pro-gay stance from the "man upstairs" and that wouldn´t be cricket now would it? :laugh4:
Fragony makes a very good argument to the point where I am a hair away from agreeing with him ( the "Behaving like this in a holy place has nothing to do with respect.")
However my disdain for religion, and thier holy places has trumped my attempt at a reasoned approach to this (again the haze is clearing). I dont have a particular like or dislike for homosexuals, if they want to march and its within thier rights to do so, yep have at it.
Kralizec
06-21-2007, 14:01
However my disdain for religion, and thier holy places has trumped my attempt at a reasoned approach to this (again the haze is clearing). I dont have a particular like or dislike for homosexuals, if they want to march and its within thier rights to do so, yep have at it.
That doesn't take away from the fact that excersing the right in this case is an incredibly stupid thing to do. I see it as provocating for the sake of provocating, hence my comparison with the Orange marches.
R'as al Ghul
06-21-2007, 14:07
Ahh a bit of the good old smiting eh?
LOL. That sounds like straight out of Terry Pratchett. :laugh4:
That doesn't take away from the fact that excersing the right in this case is an incredibly stupid thing to do. I see it as provocating for the sake of provocating, hence my comparison with the Orange marches.
thats one way to look at it, or it could be viewed as maximizing the location, and the sentiment to garnish awareness for Gay rights. What better place to illustrate intolerance then at a major religous site?
It really depends on what side of the coin you want to view.
Would you and I be discussing this if the parade was in San Fran ?
Gawain of Orkeny
06-21-2007, 15:48
Well, I think if God doesn't want them to dance around in his holy place, he'll surely find a way to rain on their parade.
Im afraid thats exactly what may happen. Of course they will claim it was gods will at least that they got murdered.
These guys wanted to hold a parade in Mecca lol. Guess what. It aint happening. Theres only one reason to hold this parade in Jerusalem and thats to stuff it in the face of religion. Dont these people realise this hurts their cause. Its as dumb as the Palestinians suicide bombing the Israelis. Its counter productive and just pisses every body else off.
Behaving like this in a holy place has nothing to do with respect. In Amsterdam you can do this. In San Fransisco you can do this. So do it there.
A correction here to this logic. Jerusalem the city is NOT a holy place. There are several locations in the and around the city that are considered holy in some respects to the 3 religions in question, but the city itself is not one major shrine or temple. I saw no reference in the article of the path taking them directly past the Wailing Wall or anything along those lines. Even if it did, I doubt I'd care.
As for the view of this being "provacative", my thoughts are that I disagree. The city does indeed have multiple sites of religion significance to the 3 major monotheistic religions, so what? It sounds like they are making a point to do this in that city to demonstrate solidarity and determination. The whole "this is provacative and they are asking to be attacked" argument sounds awfully close to the "she got raped because she was dressing like that" one.
Theres only one reason to hold this parade in Jerusalem and thats to stuff it in the face of religion.
How about reason 1a. Press coverage? Maybe i'm jaded from living in Mass but the gay rights movement has some savvy people who understand the value of press.
Again, we wouldnt be talking about this if it was in San Fran
Gawain of Orkeny
06-21-2007, 16:31
How about reason 1a. Press coverage? Maybe i'm jaded from living in Mass but the gay rights movement has some savvy people who understand the value of press.
And your missing my point that this hurts them not helps them. Most people find this repulsive. I would have the same opinion if say Howard Stern were to hold a parade with the kind of people he has on his show. You dont need to parade your sexuality about in the streets, I dont care what your sexual persuasion is.
LeftEyeNine
06-21-2007, 16:33
Organizing a gay parade in an unnecessarily provocative environment (as IA described) is freedom of speech, but it is not something that lacks common sense, rationality and simply intelligence, right ?
I'd go for it if the area did not have issues anymore, there are no more religious conflicts or whatever. Then it would a good attempt to measure how far it can go.
No wonder why people think that depicting Muhammed in charicatures in an ugly way is a matter of freedom of speech. I've never seen a freedom which is not limited to its self-strains arising from common sense in order not to intrude others' freedoms.
Briefly, this act is an absolute idiocy.
And your missing my point that this hurts them not helps them. Most people find this repulsive.
I'd really enjoy hearing where you are getting these 'facts' from.
Kralizec
06-21-2007, 16:37
A correction here to this logic. Jerusalem the city is NOT a holy place. There are several locations in the and around the city that are considered holy in some respects to the 3 religions in question, but the city itself is not one major shrine or temple. I saw no reference in the article of the path taking them directly past the Wailing Wall or anything along those lines. Even if it did, I doubt I'd care.
As for the view of this being "provacative", my thoughts are that I disagree. The city does indeed have multiple sites of religion significance to the 3 major monotheistic religions, so what? It sounds like they are making a point to do this in that city to demonstrate solidarity and determination. The whole "this is provacative and they are asking to be attacked" argument sounds awfully close to the "she got raped because she was dressing like that" one.
If you're a young woman wearing a short skirt, there are some neighbourhoods you had better not walk in alone at night. Call me a rape apoligist if you like, but that's a simple fact.
Large parts of Jerusalem are filled with fundamentalists (not only talking about muslims) who won't appreciate such a parade in "their" city, even if they pick their route carefully to steer away from these parts.
I hope the police will take efforts to protect them, 'cause they're going to need it.
And your missing my point that this hurts them not helps them. Most people find this repulsive. I would have the same opinion if say Howard Stern were to hold a parade with the kind of people he has on his show. You dont need to parade your sexuality about in the streets, I dont care what your sexual persuasion is.
I got your point, you just happen to be wrong. It hurts them perhaps in the eyes of those who subscribe to religion, yep no question. But to the those in the world who are moderate, this helps them because it causes discussion.
Sure it maybe in an unflatering light but press is press, and thats what Gay rights needs to progress thier adgenda.
This gets them that, and that helps them. The fact that its happening in this area, and around this holy area, I find has great entertainment value.
I might even send them a contribution.
Geoffrey S
06-22-2007, 08:22
Isn't the entire point of such parades to force people to see gays? These parades or various marches were originally held in a time when being such wasn't tolerated and were a brave act of openness. What would be the point of continuing the tradition only in places where it is tolerated, where it offends barely anyone nowadays?
AntiochusIII
06-22-2007, 08:36
If you're a young woman wearing a short skirt, there are some neighbourhoods you had better not walk in alone at night. Call me a rape apoligist if you like, but that's a simple fact.She might be called an idiot for walking in a dangerous neighborhood and getting raped, even rightfully so, but anyone who goes further and say that she deserves it is a complete scum.
Same in this case. It isn't particularly a wise decision what's with Gaza in flames and the tensions as high as ever. But does that mean they deserve to be car-bombed? Of course not.
Besides, wasn't there one in Jerusalem already not too long ago...or was I mistaken?
I also think that Geoffrey S has a point: the Parade is provocative. That's the point. It's the same as the Civil Rights parades of old in this aspect: you offend and you create news, eventually you'll be accepted for who you are and the bigots can snuff it.
Bar Kochba
06-22-2007, 09:30
A correction here to this logic. Jerusalem the city is NOT a holy place. There are several locations in the and around the city that are considered holy in some respects to the 3 religions in question, but the city itself is not one major shrine or temple. I saw no reference in the article of the path taking them directly past the Wailing Wall or anything along those lines. Even if it did, I doubt I'd care.
I Would like to point out according to Judasim the whole city is holy Its called "Yerushalyim Ir Hokdesh" jersalem the holy city.
Mikeus Caesar
06-22-2007, 12:58
Why must they insist on holding a gay parade in one of the holiest places on Earth? They know it will piss off alot of people. And after all...
Why must they insist on holding a gay parade in one of the holiest places on Earth? They know it will piss off alot of people. And after all...
Press, Press, and more Press. The Gay rights movment is not local anymore the adgenda is being pressed all over the world. This parade happens every year(since 2001) "in one of the holiest places on earth".
This year it was billed as a "worldpride (http://www.worldpride.net/index.php?id=1319)" event, these guys are political activist of the highest degree, and are decent tacticians at getting (you guessed it ) PRESS
Gawain of Orkeny
06-22-2007, 13:37
I got your point, you just happen to be wrong. It hurts them perhaps in the eyes of those who subscribe to religion, yep no question. But to the those in the world who are moderate, this helps them because it causes discussion.
Well seeing how most of the world is religious and straight these disscussions ususally come down to OMG did you see that .
Sure it maybe in an unflatering light but press is press, and thats what Gay rights needs to progress thier adgenda.
So you think all press is good press like in hollywood. And I think their agenda stinks and needs no advancing.
This gets them that, and that helps them.
Yeah by getting most people to say what a bunch of jerks. What the hell are they thinking.
If I were to stand on my front lawn dressed this way they would arrest me
Well seeing how most of the world is religious and straight these disscussions ususally come down to OMG did you see that .
Yes the "OMG" factor gets you in the papers.
So you think all press is good press like in hollywood. And I think their agenda stinks and needs no advancing.
In thier case yes, they dont believe thier adgenda is finished yet (percieved equal rights and all).
Yeah by getting most people to say what a bunch of jerks. What the hell are they thinking.
Perhaps, but there is always a clever fellow with a microphone at the scene ready to give them face time on TV.
You and I both know they want to be accepted into the mainstream, thats the overall goal, whats more mainstream then putting it in the face of Religion? (you know since most of the world is religous and straight?). The net effect? "want me to go home, give me what I want"
If I were to stand on my front lawn dressed this way they would arrest me
I dont think your really getting the full picture of the issue, what you need to do is take a deep breath, step up and use your logic (your a smart guy) and grab this thing about the waist and understand what the overall point is. After that, rear back, exhale and give a good thrust of tolerance and you'll begin to see the overall point is acceptance.
KukriKhan
06-22-2007, 13:50
Let's keep the 'hunks' in the hunks thread, and the hate images in the....erm... hate images thread(?) :) Please carry on, and be mindful of our readers who view the forum from work, or around little kids. Thanks.
After that, rear back, exhale and give a good thrust of tolerance and you'll begin to see the overall point is acceptance.
I'd accept and respect them more if they'd behave like normal people and wouldn't force me to look at naked people I don't want to see... So what about my rights?
The more they want to force me to tolerate them, the more I will hate them and they cannot force me to change my mind. It's about winning peoples' hearts and minds, remember? They won't win my heart or mind in such an offensive way...
[QUOTE]I'd accept and respect them more if they'd behave like normal people and wouldn't force me to look at naked people I don't want to see... So what about my rights?
Im going to tread lightly, so dont take everything I say to harshly mate.
1. Behave like normal people? So when the jews have a parade in the "holy city" is that normal?
2. Who forced you? They didnt, the paper, news cast or message board you chose to view dispalyed this, thats your fault.
3. If you lived there Id make a concession on the your rights bit, that said I do believe this was challenged and the israli supreme court deemed the parade constitutional. Seems everyones rights were considered and upheld.
The more they want to force me to tolerate them, the more I will hate them and they cannot force me to change my mind.
Perhaps, but what would you do to make them go away exactly? And husar, hate is a strong concept.
It's about winning peoples' hearts and minds, remember? They won't win my heart or mind in such an offensive way...
I'll concede this one, with the cavaet that they do want you to talk about the issue. mission accomplished?
So you think all press is good press like in hollywood. And I think their agenda stinks and needs no advancing.
well again....what you or I may think of their agenda matters absolutely squat....
the point is that if they are not breaking the law they should be alowed to publicize it.....and of course they are going to do it in the way that gets the most attention possible.
If I were to stand on my front lawn dressed this way they would arrest me
uhm...were do you live? because you might look into what rules the police are enforcing in your town...
I could legally stand in my lawn in a g-string speedo if I wanted....It´s not illegal.....the police might ask me politely to get dressed in order to avoid a scene...but they can´t arrest me for something like that.
Gawain of Orkeny
06-22-2007, 14:28
You see Odin this is how most people view this
I'd accept and respect them more if they'd behave like normal people and wouldn't force me to look at naked people I don't want to see... So what about my rights?
The more they want to force me to tolerate them, the more I will hate them and they cannot force me to change my mind. It's about winning peoples' hearts and minds, remember? They won't win my heart or mind in such an offensive way...
OK here we go
1. Behave like normal people? So when the jews have a parade in the "holy city" is that normal?
Being gay is not normal. How is being a jew not normal? Because most people are not jewish?
2. Who forced you? They didnt, the paper, news cast or message board you chose to view dispalyed this, thats your fault.
What if its on your block?
3. If you lived there Id make a concession on the your rights bit, that said I do believe this was challenged and the israli supreme court deemed the parade constitutional. Seems everyones rights were considered and upheld.
So again if NAMBLA wants a parade they should have one?
Homosexuality should be tolerated not encouraged. Its a deviant form of sex. No better or worse than beastiality in my book. In fact give me a sheep any day. At least they tell no tales :)
They just want attention for their "cause".
If you find it distastefull, stupid, idiocy, ... best thing you can do is ignore it.
And if you happen to get stuck in some gay parade and you are in a situation where it becomes physical impossible to ignore it, behave like what you see is completely normal and not special at all. When some half nude guy starts dancing in front of you to get the attention he is seeking, just give him some money, saying: "Go buy a coat my friend, it's too cold to walk around dressed like that."
I'm 100 % for equal treatment for all human beings, but is it really necessary to put pink feathers in your :daisy: and start shaking them on one of the most, if not the most, important place for several of the worlds' most important religions?
Being gay is not normal. How is being a jew not normal? Because most people are not jewish?
I´d state that believing what the bible and the old testament and the koran say isn´t normal....but hey...to each his own.
if people want to behave abnormaly they should be allowed to as long as they don´t hurt anybody else.
What if its on your block?
what about when I go to the beach and I see the 300 pound 50 year old lady that had the brilliant idea to wear a bikini(shudders)?
You think I want to see that?....
I think that´s discusting.....so should I be allowed to stop this lady from comming to the beach?
So again if NAMBLA wants a parade they should have one?
Homosexuality should be tolerated not encouraged. Its a deviant form of sex. No better or worse than beastiality in my book. In fact give me a sheep any day. At least they tell no tales :)
bestiality and the NAMBLA :daisy:s are nothing like homosexuality.....
in homosexual relations both partners consent to what they are doing....no matter what me may think of that choice......if the sheep can say that she´s in love with you and wants to get it on I say go for it!...but I kinda doubt that´s the case.
Being gay is not normal. How is being a jew not normal? Because most people are not jewish?
Being Jewish isnt normal because its a choice, being homosexual inst a choice its a condition.
What if its on your block?
Well I live in a mansion so I dont have to see the street, but I get your point, however as much as I might not like it they still have the right and the excersise of that right gives them press, thus its value.
Similar to a KKK rally, its about the press Gawain, come on.
So again if NAMBLA wants a parade they should have one?
If the supreme court of the host country says they have the right, then yep, unless you prefer it be decided on a case by case basis by the local sherriff? Okay, we'll use the constitution for a paint by numbers then, hows rainbow sound?
Homosexuality should be tolerated not encouraged. Its a deviant form of sex. No better or worse than beastiality in my book. In fact give me a sheep any day.
When you make absolute statements like this, with terms like deviant, and comparisson to beastiality you reveal what reads like fear, or at a minimum a closed mind. However I am hetrosexual myself, I dont encourage homosexuality, I just dont go out of my way to belittle segements of the population.
Im going to tread lightly, so dont take everything I say to harshly mate.
No offense taken, I usually wait for differing opinions, like I said somewhere else, I come here to learn as well.:2thumbsup:
1. Behave like normal people? So when the jews have a parade in the "holy city" is that normal?
As long as they don't run around half naked, yes. That's actually all I meant with normal in this case.
2. Who forced you? They didnt, the paper, news cast or message board you chose to view dispalyed this, thats your fault.
That's right to an extent, but the press tries their best to make me see it with posters and other ads everywhere. So indirectly they want to force me to see it. I thought that was the reason they want this to be in the press so that people see it? Maybe forcing isn't the right expression though, I give you that.
3. If you lived there Id make a concession on the your rights bit, that said I do believe this was challenged and the israli supreme court deemed the parade constitutional. Seems everyones rights were considered and upheld.
Most likely, sometimes I just add post-fillers I actually don't believe in myself, please forgive me. ~;)
Perhaps, but what would you do to make them go away exactly? And husar, hate is a strong concept.
Hate is indeed a strong concept and I don't really hate them anyway.
I just think they're completely overreacting and that there are less offensive ways to get acceptance, might take a bit longer but also keeps aggression levels of others lower.
I'll concede this one, with the cavaet that they do want you to talk about the issue. mission accomplished?
I've been thinking about gays before without their stupid parade and when I saw gays in the place I work out I came to the conclusion that I don't mind them being there and will treat them like anyone else. But they weren't dancing around half naked, that would certainly have lead me to a different conclusion.
Gawain of Orkeny
06-22-2007, 14:52
Being Jewish isnt normal because its a choice, being homosexual inst a choice its a condition.
Your Jewish if your mother is Jewish. Its not a choice.
If the supreme court of the host country says they have the right, then yep, unless you prefer it be decided on a case by case basis by the local sherriff? Okay, we'll use the constitution for a paint by numbers then, hows rainbow sound?
SCOTUS has made many bad calls in the past. that dont make it right.
When you make absolute statements like this, with terms like deviant, and comparisson to beastiality you reveal what reads like fear, or at a minimum a closed mind. However I am hetrosexual myself, I dont encourage homosexuality, I just dont go out of my way to belittle segements of the population.
I have no fear. You want to screw a cow be my guest. it dont phase me in the least. But dont go around telling me its normal. Its not why you were given reproductive organs. Im not belittling anyone. Different strokes for different folks I always say.
That's right to an extent, but the press tries their best to make me see it with posters and other ads everywhere. So indirectly they want to force me to see it. I thought that was the reason they want this to be in the press so that people see it? Maybe forcing isn't the right expression though, I give you that.
Yes they want you to see it, but you have to look.
I just think they're completely overreacting and that there are less offensive ways to get acceptance, might take a bit longer but also keeps aggression levels of others lower.
On this we agree.
I agree with Husar. It's not the fact that they are gay that is disturbing, but the way how they chose to express their gay-ness by running and dancing around half (and sometimes completely, unless you consider bodypaint = clothes) naked.
And as if that's not enough, they plan to do it in a holy city of all places.
In this case, it's disrespectful towards different important religions. It's bad taste and, considering the present political situation in the area involved, a sign of a complete lack of common sense.
Your Jewish if your mother is Jewish. Its not a choice.
Is it an ethnic group, or someone who practices Judaism? I say the later, but thats a whole other topic.
SCOTUS has made many bad calls in the past. that dont make it right.
No but it makes it legal.
I have no fear. You want to screw a cow be my guest. it dont phase me in the least. But dont go around telling me its normal. Its not why you were given reproductive organs. Im not belittling anyone. Different strokes for different folks I always say.
Okay Gawain, i wont tell you its being normal.
I agree with Husar. It's not the fact that they are gay that is disturbing, but the way how they chose to express their gay-ness by running and dancing around half (and sometimes completely, unless you consider bodypaint = clothes) naked.
And as if that's not enough, they plan to do it in a holy city of all places.
In this case, it's disrespectful towards different important religions. It's bad taste and, considering the present political situation in the area involved, a sign of a complete lack of common sense.
I'm about done with this thread as i have given my 2 cents and made my points. Let me say in sentiment your right, but thier intent isnt to display normal behavior or be respectful, thier intent is to gain press.
these are very savvy people with a political adgenda, if you believe this as fact then its clear why they are in a percieved holy city.
Gawain of Orkeny
06-22-2007, 15:04
Is it an ethnic group, or someone who practices Judaism? I say the later, but thats a whole other topic.
Is there any doubt its an ethnic group? Does the fact that people from other nations have joined it change that?
No but it makes it legal.
But that doesnt refute my point that it may be wrong.
Okay Gawain, i wont tell you its being normal.
What?
Andres pretty much covers my thoughts on the matter.
Is there any doubt its an ethnic group? Does the fact that people from other nations have joined it change that?
Do they practice judaism?
But that doesnt refute my point that it may be wrong.
Who gets to decide that? You? God? Jews? Christians? Homosexuals?
Right and wrong is a concept not universally applied.
Gawain of Orkeny
06-22-2007, 15:24
Do they practice judaism?
Who? One more time. If your mother is Jewish you are Jewish. Whether or not you practice Judaism is irrelevant.
Who gets to decide that? You? God? Jews? Christians? Homosexuals?
Right and wrong is a concept not universally applied.
Why of course me. No one else really matters do they?
Who?
Does the fact that people from other nations have joined it change that?
these people you mentioned in a prior post, did thier moms convert after they joined as well? :inquisitive:
Why of course me. No one else really matters do they?
:medievalcheers:
Gawain of Orkeny
06-22-2007, 15:32
these people you mentioned in a prior post, did thier moms convert after they joined as well?
No. I didnt say that to be a Jew your mother has to be Jewish now did I? These people must pass a test and part of that test is practicing Judaism. But if your mother is Jewish your Jewish.
No. I didnt say that to be a Jew your mother has to be Jewish now did I? These people must pass a test and part of that test is practicing Judaism. But if your mother is Jewish your Jewish.
Oh your clever.
So does the mother have to practive judaism to be Jewish?
Gawain of Orkeny
06-22-2007, 15:39
Oh your clever
Your not bad yourself :laugh4:
So does the mother have to practive judaism to be Jewish?
Not if she is Jewish :laugh4:
Spetulhu
06-22-2007, 15:45
Holy city or not, the parade isn't threatening to kill people. Religious nutjobs do. I'd certainly consider killing people more offensive than staging a march. The Israeli police even captured one idiot with explosives who was planning on placing a bomb along the route.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070621/wl_mideast_afp/lifestyleisraelgay_070621152119
Israeli police said they arrested an ultra-Orthodox Jewish man carrying explosives who wanted to bomb the route of the parade, where thousands of gays and activists were to march for 500 metres (yards) to the Liberty Bell Park.
"In his bag we discovered a homemade explosive device. He admitted he planned on planting it on the route of the parade today," police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld said.
edit: mangled English
HoreTore
06-22-2007, 15:47
When did it become more respectful to throw stones, smoke bombs and stab people, than marching around doing what you want to do for an hour or two?
When did it become more respectful to throw stones, smoke bombs and stab people, than marching around doing what you want to do for an hour or two?
Who said that :inquisitive:
Not if she is Jewish :laugh4:
:medievalcheers:
HoreTore
06-22-2007, 16:07
Who said that :inquisitive:
Well, people are calling the gays disrespectful, yet they don't say the same thing about the people throwing stones, smoke bombs, explosives and stabbing them...
Well, people are calling the gays disrespectful, yet they don't say the same thing about the people throwing stones, smoke bombs, explosives and stabbing them...
Maybe because that would be 'off topic'?
HoreTore
06-22-2007, 16:10
Maybe because that would be 'off topic'?
It's off topic to talk about both sides of an incident? Can't say I've noticed that here...
Well, people are calling the gays disrespectful, yet they don't say the same thing about the people throwing stones, smoke bombs, explosives and stabbing them...
Actually I did.
Well, I think if God doesn't want them to dance around in his holy place, he'll surely find a way to rain on their parade...:juggle2:
What I wanted to say here, though it may not have been obvious, was that people should not care about holy sites that much, because essentially it's just another place on earth and who are we to decide who's allowed to walk where by God's/a god's standards? an omnipotent god should be able to protect his holy site if he really wants to and he would surely stand above a bunch of people dancing around on it, it doesn't really take away from his/her potential. Oh, and I wanted to make a silly joke about raining on a parade etc.:sweatdrop:
HoreTore
06-22-2007, 16:19
Actually I did.
Yeah, I was referring more to the gaybashers...
Gawain of Orkeny
06-22-2007, 16:25
Well, people are calling the gays disrespectful, yet they don't say the same thing about the people throwing stones, smoke bombs, explosives and stabbing them...
Thats far more than being disrespectful.
Yeah, I was referring more to the gaybashers...
Care to name a few?
Don Corleone
06-22-2007, 16:28
Hey, if dressing up in leather hot pants, drinking themselves silly, draping themselves in beads and rubbing up against people in the crowd is how these poor souls have to deal with their self-esteem issues, who am I to stand in the way of it?
Somebody said (I think it was Andre) the more you complain about them, the more they're going to think they've won and continue. In many ways, the Gay Rights movement has the collective pscyhology of a petulant teenager. And what's the best way to deal with teens that try every day to come up with new ways to provoke you? Pick your battles. Draw a line. When they cross it, come down on them. If they don't, ignore them. Sooner or later, they'll get tired of public buggery and they'll discover they actually have some modesty and will settle down to a nice 2 room bungalow to be renovated and will make a guest appearance on HGTV.
Gawain of Orkeny
06-22-2007, 16:30
Sooner or later, they'll get tired of public buggery and they'll discover they actually have some modesty and will settle down to a nice 2 room bungalow to be renovated and will make a guest appearance on HGTV.
Hey Ive seen those people there :help:
Sasaki Kojiro
06-22-2007, 22:59
As an atheist, churches offend me. I'm fine with churches when they are in holy spots or holy cities, but why do they have to intrude them in other cities? Their spires always stick above the horizon and the bells ring every hour, offending me every time. They could use a lesson in respect.
Gawain of Orkeny
06-22-2007, 23:07
As an atheist, churches offend me. I'm fine with churches when they are in holy spots or holy cities, but why do they have to intrude them in other cities? Their spires always stick above the horizon and the bells ring every hour, offending me every time. They could use a lesson in respect.
Then you should move. We have freedom of religion here. Make sure you dont go to any Muslim country because they have a call to prayer 5 times a day and its broadcast every where.
Sasaki Kojiro
06-22-2007, 23:14
Then you should move.
Sweet, that's your solution for the people in jerusalem who are offended by the gays too?
Gawain of Orkeny
06-22-2007, 23:19
Sweet, that's your solution for the people in jerusalem who are offended by the gays too?
Either that or close the windows and blinds :laugh4:
As an atheist, churches offend me. I'm fine with churches when they are in holy spots or holy cities, but why do they have to intrude them in other cities? Their spires always stick above the horizon and the bells ring every hour, offending me every time. They could use a lesson in respect.
I'm no atheist but I live about 20 metres from the church...
They ring those bells from 8.00 am until 10.00 pm, every 30 minutes(yup, it's every 30 minutes, not just every hour, you ignorant atheist :whip: ).
I got used to it know, with the exception with the constant ringing during funerals, on saturday mornings ~:angry: I mean, the guy's dead, he won't wake up anymore. So what's the point in torturing me and forcing me to wake up instead? Every week-end!
~;p
HoreTore
06-22-2007, 23:41
We have freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of religion.... We seriously need freedom of sex.
Gawain of Orkeny
06-22-2007, 23:50
They ring those bells from 8.00 am until 10.00 pm, every 30 minutes(yup, it's every 30 minutes, not just every hour, you ignorant atheist ).
You do realise why churches have clock towers and bells dont you?
Sasaki Kojiro
06-22-2007, 23:57
You do realise why churches have clock towers and bells dont you?
The ministers are basically petulant teenagers...Andres, you just have to ignore the bells and they'll give up once they aren't getting any attention.
The ministers are basically petulant teenagers...Andres, you just have to ignore the bells and they'll give up once they aren't getting any attention.
Oh you :laugh4:
Gawain of Orkeny
06-23-2007, 00:18
The ministers are basically petulant teenagers...Andres, you just have to ignore the bells and they'll give up once they aren't getting any attention.
Droll very droll
Tribesman
06-23-2007, 01:41
The gays need to up the stakes , they should open a big nightclub 7 days a week which has no dress code and sells all sorts of alcohol , with a restaurant that serves whatever food it wants whenever it wants , and for good measure lay on a bus service where women don't have to use seperate doors and seperate seats , plus run some taxis whenever anyone wants them .
With any luck the fanatics will drop dead with shock , or perhaps the IDF will treat them the same way as it does the arabs when they throw stones and shoot them .
Papewaio
06-23-2007, 02:02
Pick your battles. Draw a line. When they cross it, come down on them.
Must resist the dark side of the force...
Must resist the dark side of the force...
Quick! We need a shaman stat! He's channeling Gregoshi!!
This does not help the discussion in any way. Apparently only made to make fun - fun of the rather distasteful kind (Ser Clegane)
content removed by Ser Clegane
Ser Clegane
06-23-2007, 14:38
This thread has outlived its purpose. As it is now getting increasingly side-tracked or - even worse - offensive, it is time for it to be closed.
Closed
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