The factions with the best armies in EB

[carthage_supreme]

the best armies(units) i think are; karthadastim , romani , makedonia , sweboz and averni.

[Kampfkrebs]

Eleutheroi.

[CaesarAugustus]

What's so special about the Arverni compared to the Aedui?

[Respenus]

Romani FOREVER!

OK, I must admit that I haven't played other civilizations, but I do know that Cartage is very strong indeed.

[Bonny]

Karthadastim has a good variety of factional Elite Units and regional middle / Elite Units, but i must say that no faction can beat the Diadochi, especially the Arche Seleukia.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Exactly. :yes:

[abou]

Indeed. Bonny put it best.

[woad&fangs]

Epeiros, Hammer and Anvil tactics are so much more effective when you use elephant hammers.

[MiniMe]

Karthadastim has a good variety of factional Elite Units and regional middle / Elite Units, but i must say that no faction can beat the Diadochi, especially the Arche Seleukia.

Epeiros, Hammer and Anvil tactics are so much more effective when you use elephant hammers.
Seeing these posts together, I finally realised that Epeiros and Baktria were not real "Diadochoi" factions, though they were using Diadochoi military tactics. Stupidme =)

I say
1. Karthadastim has the best unit rooster in western hemisphere, since beside their own African and Iberian elites they can recruit celtic elites (Gaesatae and Neitos)
2. Baktria has the best unit rooster in eastern hemisphere, since they have their own armoured horse archers and Arche Seleukia has not.


Romani FOREVER!

Romaim DELEGO EST!!! :duel:
Carthage RULES!
They had temple prostitution and baby sacrifices therefore their culture was supreme to roman :laugh4:

[Bootsiuv]

I agree about Baktria's unit line-ups....it is killer. Qarthadastim is beaten out by the Romani in the western hemisphere IMO. Having played several Qarthadastim campaigns, they always give me a run for my money.

Qarthadastim getting bogged down in southern Italy is an excellent way to lose a campaign. It's doable, but don't expect it to be easy, and expect to take high losses.

However, playing as the Romani, Qarthadastim were push-overs really.

[Sarkiss]

Carthage RULES!
They had temple prostitution
they were not the only ones at this. the same was going on in Armenia, cult of Anahit.
i like Pontic roster the best and if not absence of pikes would probably name Hayasdan, very divers roster and those kataphracts are just awesome. but Pontus got almost all, just eles (which i dont favor though) HA and kats are missing.
Successors are splendid of course but miss that special something about them.

[Boyar Son]

Romani teh pwns.

I like to see phalanxes try and stop over 100 pilum at the same time....

[abou]

Okay, and I would like to see a legion stop a cataphract charge... oh wait, they didn't.

[Spoofa]

Oh I can show you a makedonian phalanx stopping 100 pilum.... :laugh4:

[NeoSpartan]

hum... I see a lot of fluf talk, a lot of fluf talk, but notin' else.....

You wanna prove which army is the best?
I will tell you it doesn't really matter, it depends on the leader. The troops you select and how u use them in battle.

Come to MP and show me what u can do :boxing:
X-fire: 1stneospartan
online: Almost any day 12:00am to 2:00am, sometimes 3:00am Eastern Standard Time (US)
MP connection: Hamachi only, my PC doesn't like GameSpy.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Romani teh pwns.

I like to see phalanxes try and stop over 100 pilum at the same time....

Easiest thing in the world for a phalanx. Just stand there and face the pilum; it's only a pilum you know. ~;)

[Spoofa]

Easiest thing in the world for a phalanx. Just stand there and face the pilum; it's only a pilum you know. ~;)


when the Pilum gets caught up in the forest of Sarissa's then it becomes near useless:yes:

[Tellos Athenaios]

hum... I see a lot of fluf talk, a lot of fluf talk, but notin' else.....

You wanna prove which army is the best?
I will tell you it doesn't really matter, it depends on the leader. The troops you select and how u use them in battle.

Come to MP and show me what u can do :boxing:
X-fire: 1stneospartan
online: Almost any day 12:00am to 2:00am, sometimes 3:00am
MP connection: Hamachi only, my PC doesn't like GameSpy.

You are bored... I can read it between the lines...

[NeoSpartan]

You are bored... I can read it between the lines...

Sorta... I don't feel like staring/continuing a single player campain due to my last CTD. :shame:

So... for the past 3 weeks I have played MP exclusively with my man Madmatg, and Gauis. As a side effect our skills have increased :yes:

[Poulp']

The factions with the best armies in EB ?

well, against the AI, the faction you're playing is the best.
Actually, anything will do against the AI, even penguins, provided there's enough penguins, and a good cav charge to deal the death blow.
March of the penguins anyone ?

As for me, I prefer Carthage's armies the best; they just got so many aces in their sleeves.

Oh yeah, sacred prostitution is the icing on the cake ^^

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

I like to see phalanxes try and stop over 100 pilum at the same time....
Pezhetairoi walk through any barrage as if it was nothing...

Once I was besieged from Sarmatae. I defeated all their crappy infantry, and they had no chance anymore. How do you climb ladders with horses anyway? So they had like 450 HAs left, and a unit of Sphendonetai. So I sallied forth with my General and two units of Skythian Riders through the backdoor. Meanwhile I ordered my 150 Pezhetairoi out of the front gate. The HAs immidiately began their deadly barrage. My Pezhetairoi went into phalanx mode. It was an aweful sound, the never-stopping noise of the arrows and stones hitting my soldiers. I don't know how many arrows each horsearcher has, but they must have sent all their 9000 or what-not arrows at my poor 150 Phalangites. Half of them was dead afterwards, but it was enough. Because of their inferiorty in melee I could beat them back with my General and 200 Skythian Riders.

So, 100 arrows kill less than 1 Pezhetairos. And javelins are even more useless. Phalanx = invincible.

[antisocialmunky]

Slingers FTW.

*ahem!*

I like the Iberian faction(forgot how to spell it). They have lots of great units from the start of the game.

[Bootsiuv]

Phalanx = overpowered, if only by a small amount. Arrows should do more damage to phalanx troops IMO. While the forest of sarissas was effective, I don't think it would equate to 1-2 men falling in a 200 arrow barrage.

I'm fairly certain the missile protection for phalanxes is hardcoded, so there isn't much one can do. I may be wrong, though.

[Boyar Son]

mm hm I hope the phalanx can cope being attacked from the sides and rear, maybe if they were more flexible...ow wait....

[Megas Pyrrhos]

mm hm I hope the phalanx can cope being attacked from the sides and rear, maybe if they were more flexible...ow wait....

That's why a good general would have a combined-arms army, consisting of something more than just phalanx units, but flank guards as well.

Go Baktria!

[Bellum]

Romans have the best infantry, and probably some of the easiest to use effectively.

[Krusader]

Being the guy who has created the unit pages, I have to say Baktria followed by Arche Seleukeia, although worth mentioning Getai too.

Baktria can if they seize Gandhara and Paropamisadai have access to all units for any battlefield role of any quality, except elite pikemen. Which is actually pretty sick, considering they can field devastating armies for any task from only 5 provinces.
Elephants, skirmishers, archers, assault infantry, elite spearmen, heavy cavalry, super-heavy cavalry (Hetairoi Kataphraktoi, cavalry as armored as the Grivpanvar, hopefully you'll love 'em. We do ~:)), Pezhetairoi, Thorakitai, horse archers, light cavalry etc.

And properly made up the Getai is also a faction who has access to many different troop types. They got nice shock infantry, line infantry, horse archers, archers, light and heavy cavalry etc.

[Lysander13]

Definately one of the Diadochi i would say, i'd go with the AS in particular. The army the "silver death" can potentially put in the field is just sick.

[Cheexsta]

I'll go against everyone and say Pahlava. Very little can beat a skilled opponent with a heap of horse archers. Except maybe a ring of 20 Pezhetairoi units...

[Bootsiuv]

HA heavy factions like Pahlava and Saka Rauka usually have suck infantry (barring the Saka's Hellenic Reforms, which don't even work right in the current version IIRC), so they aren't amongst the best overall.

HA armies can be devestating in the field, but trying to take cities like Seleukiea and Antioch with Nizag Gund isn't ideal. I suppose you can use Mercenaries to supplement the HA's, but that's not really the Pahlavan military, that's the Pahlavan military with non-Pahlavan troops.

[Bava]

western hemisphere: close race between Quart Hadasht, Romani (gah), Makedonia (i love the pheraspidai).

eastern hemisphere: Baktria for sure. The variety of thier unit roster has arleady
been mentioned so i just add they all look very sexy ~D (the early baktrian bodyguard is the most beautiful and unique unit i´ve ever seen in a RTW mod, cant wait to see the late version).

And kudos to the baktrian FC(s), he (they) managed to create to the most impressive EB campaign experience IMHO (everything just feels right, there´s nothing that could break the immersion)



...Hetairoi Kataphraktoi...

hetairoi......KATAPHRAKTOI ?! omg...teh pwnz...

[Ludens]

I'm fairly certain the missile protection for phalanxes is hardcoded, so there isn't much one can do. I may be wrong, though.
I am not so sure about that, though. I've heard it claimed several times, but I've never seen tests that prove that phalanx had increased defensive values. Also, EB phalangites have higher shield values than units with similar shield to indicate the protective function of the pike hedge. To balance it out, they have a reduced defence value.

[Cheexsta]

HA heavy factions like Pahlava and Saka Rauka usually have suck infantry (barring the Saka's Hellenic Reforms, which don't even work right in the current version IIRC), so they aren't amongst the best overall.

HA armies can be devestating in the field, but trying to take cities like Seleukiea and Antioch with Nizag Gund isn't ideal. I suppose you can use Mercenaries to supplement the HA's, but that's not really the Pahlavan military, that's the Pahlavan military with non-Pahlavan troops.
There is no fortification so strong that money cannot capture it ~;)

[Tellos Athenaios]

But that's some Roman politician who got his hands cut off...

[The Persian Cataphract]

Well that's the thing really; A good Pahlava player will slaughter any army with almost minimal effort and with minimal losses, making them one of the most deadly foes in an open field battle (Well, they should be, but the AI is a putz); Especially later on fielding those lethal tanks, the AI is almost chanceless unless the player is incompetent. This is of course offset by the fact that the Pahlava, in difference to the Achaemenids and the Sassanids (Who were among the best in siege-craft) were unable to conduct offensive siege-craft (Which is weird considering their excellent fortifications).

As Pahlava you are forced to make use of a combo of heavy cavalry and horse-archers; Baktria has the potential of matching the Pahlava cavalry (And are the only other faction able to do so, with Hayasdan with a slightly weaker roster). Arche Seleukeia is a behemoth with both super-powerful cavalry and infantry, but do not have the "My little Ponies from hell" of Pahlava, Baktria, Hayasdan and Saka. AS is actually more comparable to the late Pontic army. I'd say depending on mentality, you'll either find the Pahlava armies to be extremely flexible and effective, or if you want the most complete roster, Baktria is a better bet than AS. The worst possible enemies against Pahlava will be Sauromatae but especially Saka; Baktria's worst enemy will be hubris :grin:

[The Persian Cataphract]

Baktria can if they seize Gandhara and Paropamisadai have access to all units for any battlefield role of any quality, except elite pikemen. Which is actually pretty sick, considering they can field devastating armies for any task from only 5 provinces.
Elephants, skirmishers, archers, assault infantry, elite spearmen, heavy cavalry, super-heavy cavalry (Hetairoi Kataphraktoi, cavalry as armored as the Grivpanvar, hopefully you'll love 'em. We do ), Pezhetairoi, Thorakitai, horse archers, light cavalry etc.

Gah! You leaked the name of the Baktrian beast :hmg:

[Tellos Athenaios]

Baktria's worst enemy will be hubris :grin:

In game that goes for everyone... :yes: (And if you knew its other meaning...)

[Krusader]

Gah! You leaked the name of the Baktrian beast :hmg:

Drop the Jägermeister. :wink:
It has been mentioned before actually. But people have the memory span of a goldfish :laugh4:

[The Persian Cataphract]

Yeah apparently myself included :shame:

All I can say is if people were freaked out by the Grivpanvar, they will be pretty flabbergasted by the Hetairoi Kataphraktoi.

[Son of Perun]

Saka has a pretty good unit roster after the reforms, it can match the bactrian one. The combination of hellenic and steppe military is almost invincible.

[mAIOR]

Well, I still like to see the Grivpânvar attack and fail against the Thorakitai Argyraspidai...
Now, so Persian Catraphact doesn't become too upset with me (and kick me out of the voicemod because of being a traitor to my voice :p) I can say they fail... with style... :smoking:

[Lysander13]

Hetairoi Kataphraktoi....**shudders at the thought of these guys caving in one of my flanks**..:sweatdrop:

[Kampfkrebs]

oh well, you all have no clue what beautiful units we are going to include in the next EB....:laugh4:

[Dram]

most factions are powerful but i have to say cataphracts make a big difference, they just seem to have a charge thats literally 10 times better than other heavy cav. i think they are a bit too powerful in frontal charges though... losing 40% of a unit of elite heavy infantry who are prepared, shields up in guard mode seems a bit much. but i guess its this way to give people a reason to train spearmen.

[Digby Tatham Warter]

Definately one of the Diadochi i would say, i'd go with the AS in particular. The army the "silver death" can potentially put in the field is just sick.
I'm another AS fan. I personally judge the best army by how effectively it can destroy another army, and in doing so, incur the least casualties.

I have played most factions and found AS to have an excellent roster if their varius provinces(East & West) contribute, to make up the best all round force(they also overall look the best). Sarrisa based forces equate to few melee casualties(if protected properly) and can absorb lot's of firepower.

I don't rate Bakria over AS as they are light on the elite pikes and elite supports.
As for armoured horse achers, I would rather field fast horse archers(along side the Companions/Kataphracts) as they offer the versatility of their excellent pursuit during the route(few enemy generals escape them).

When fighting factions using horse archers, I prefer AS's Syrian foot archers protected by a pike wall, that and elite heavy cav units working in pairs usually equate to low casualties.

[mAIOR]

I hope the AS get an Agema cavalry unit... Seing as Livy and Arrian both mention them as a separate unit from the hetaroi...

Cheers...

[Tellos Athenaios]

And we AS fans will get much more new and wonderful units to play with in the next release... Oh yeah, you can completely abandon the phalanx based armies if you so desire. But of course nothing beats the combination of both the phalanx AND the new powerful units. :wink:

[abou]

I hope the AS get an Agema cavalry unit... Seing as Livy and Arrian both mention them as a separate unit from the hetaroi...

Cheers...As far as we can tell, they were equipped the same as the Hetairoi. The only difference is in their name. Hetairoi for men of Greek/Makedonian origin and Agema for men of Iranian/Median origin. Having the other unit would be superfluous.

[Digby Tatham Warter]

And we AS fans will get much more new and wonderful units to play with in the next release... Oh yeah, you can completely abandon the phalanx based armies if you so desire. But of course nothing beats the combination of both the phalanx AND the new powerful units. :wink:
Are we talking horsiemen or infantry, please enlighten us(even at the great risk to your goodself from the EB council, for giving to much away)

[fallen851]

The Saka reforms are broken in 0.81a v2?

[Tellos Athenaios]

No they are not really broken: it's that somehow the Marian reforms (Vanilla, mind you) did not get removed. This is fixed in the next build; and currently you can either fix it yourself or you can go through all the requirements INCLUDING waiting till a city other than Roma reaches the 24k size.

[Caveira]

The Lusotannans have acess to the Dosedastakeli, those guys are the most powerful unit in the entire game I believe.

[Digby Tatham Warter]

The Lusotannans have acess to the Dosedastakeli, those guys are the most powerful unit in the entire game I believe.
Possibly, but that's only 1 unit, and it is very unrealistic to have an army of them.

[Cadeyrn]

Not to mention prohibitlivly expensive even for rich folks of the Iberian peninsula.

[Krusader]

Are we talking horsiemen or infantry, please enlighten us(even at the great risk to your goodself from the EB council, for giving to much away)

Heliopolis Elephantes. Two elephants carrying a massive ballista on their backs. You can even set the missiles on fire.

[Digby Tatham Warter]

Heliopolis Elephantes. Two elephants carrying a massive ballista on their backs. You can even set the missiles on fire.
Now I'm not sure if your being serious after all that mick take out of CA, what with their elephant cannon bearers in MTWII. C'mon Krusader, we're crusading for the truth here.

Even if you aren't telling pork pies, I bet they will cost about much as those top of the line fleets that Arche Seleueia sail the brimy seas in! Think about it EB prices(not cheap) +Nellies(expensive) +Artill(expensive)=(quess what) bloody expensive!

[Bava]

Heliopolis Elephantes. Two elephants carrying a massive ballista on their backs. You can even set the missiles on fire.

gee, whats next? The Hetairoi M1A2 Abramsioi? ~D

[Zarax]

Nah, Thorakitai Chobamoi and Merkavai Hoplitai for KH...

[Tellos Athenaios]

Are we talking horsiemen or infantry, please enlighten us(even at the great risk to your goodself from the EB council, for giving to much away)

Both of course! :grin:

[Digby Tatham Warter]

Both of course! :grin:
Thanking you kindly.

Ps, what about this Nellie artill contraption, was it in jest?

[Bootsiuv]

I would assume so....if you've seen the elephant cannoneers the Timurids field in the crap that is vanilla M2:TW, you would get the reference.

[Digby Tatham Warter]

I would assume so....if you've seen the elephant cannoneers the Timurids field in the crap that is vanilla M2:TW, you would get the reference.I think they may of existed, afterall AS did build some flunky grand items, look at their monstrous ships. Two Nellies bolted together into an artill platform is what I would expect from AS, something of a grand spectacle and possible terror weapon.

Going back to the best armies, and my fondness for AS, I want to list the ideal army I build and get peoples feed back on it, although a point from my own perspective is the cost of this army is not relevant, as by the time I can build it, I can support it, 3 of em in fact.

1 General
1 Companion cav(sorry can't spell the proper name).
2 Kataphractoi cav
1 Horse archer(whichever has the best overall stats)
1 Armoured Nellie(used very carefully, a real nut buster and quite easy to use, if skirmishes are driven off, and used during the height of the melee)
3 Silver shield Sarrisa pike brigades
3 Medium Sarrisa pike brigades(they begin with P, sorry I can't remember the spelling)
1 Thoratikai Agyraspidai
1 Elite spear unit(full bronze armour, can't remember the name)
2 Thoratikai
2 Thracian Peltast mercs
2 Syrian Archers

It is supposed to be semi realistic in terms of a mixed force, and not all elite, ie; 6 units of Thoratikai Agyraspidai and 6 Silver shield pikes. Although tougher troops are used, like the 2 Thoratikai, as part of the flank forces.

When landing in Italy the Romans spammed many decent armies, the above army on hard setting chewed through them nicely, and because of it's nature, casualties were kept light.

I also find the above army to be good against a wide range of forces.

[EdwardL]

I just dont understand how this can be a lengthy conversation. Clearly AS has the best army :laugh4:

Theres mention of Baktria having the widest variety, but I have to break the news to you Baktrian fans. AS has all those units + heavy phalanx + the battle winning all encompassing best unit in the game..


Thorakitai Argyraspidai


Walking tanks. Earthshakers.

Clearly no other unit is superior 1 on 1 save the Iberian foot tanks, but i'll gladly trade 3 defense to have access to cataphracts, ellies, heavy phalanx.. etc.

On top of their stats, they get javelins AND a spear, which atm has no penalty vs infantry in the RTW engine + a BONUS vs cavalry?? sign me up for a full stack pls-kk-thnx.

Thorakitai Argyraspidai arent imitation legionnares, legionnares are imitation Thorakitai Argyraspidai !

[Bava]

Okay, TA kick some serious ass, but there´s one unit AS hasnt access to (at least not through factional MICs): Armoured horse archers.

´Nuff said ~D

[Digby Tatham Warter]

Okay, TA kick some serious ass, but there´s one unit AS hasnt access to (at least not through factional MICs): Armoured horse archers.

´Nuff said ~D
Yes but are they a useful advantage, how do people use them effectively?
when I way up the pros and cons over the best light HA, they just seem to cost more.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Okay, TA kick some serious ass, but there´s one unit AS hasnt access to (at least not through factional MICs): Armoured horse archers.

´Nuff said ~D

Ha! :grin:

[mAIOR]

Yes and what is the effect of arrows on TA?? Oh that's right none whatsoever!
:p

Cheers...

[Bava]

Yes and what is the effect of arrows on TA?? Oh that's right none whatsoever!
:p



Hate it say it, mate.......you´re right. :stwshame:


Did a quick CB (med, no chevrons/upgrades, steppe), the TA suffered a total of 7 losses due to arrows, 26 due to charges. My baktrian HA routed with 21 men left.

Replayed the setup with the parthian heavy HAs out of curiosity, 13 losses/arrows, 50 losses/charge ~D