Villains in Movies

[Bijo]

What the hell...? Why the hell do villains in movies always WAIT before they destroy their foe which they have finally captured? For instance look at those (terribly unrealistic exaggerated romantic) James Bond movies: just KILL him already when you have him before you, don't wait! If I were one of those villains I'd have simply put a nice good bullet into his head right away, but in the movies nööööööö.... they must always stop and talk to them or something like that. You have the foe, so just destroy him swiftly already! Arrrgh!

[El Diablo]

Its the evil ego. It prevents them just "poppin' a cap".

Still with amount of times that they could have knocked off James Bond it would have been a pretty short series.

What about the poor evil genius that keep getting foiled by a bunch of pesky kids and a stoner dog? That must suck.

[Ayachuco]

Well, what about Scaramanga and his Battle of the Guns duel with James Bond? I think its the best example, IMHO. My Golden Gun and its one bullet v.s your PPK and its seven bullets. Although, personally I wouldn't have ran away or would have even challenge him to duel in the first place.

[seireikhaan]

Hence the great scene in Austin Powers:

Dr. Evil: "Scott, I'd like you to meet Daddy's nemisis, Austin Powers."

Scott: "Psh, what, are you feeding him? Why not shoot him now?"

Dr. Evil: "No, Scott, I've got a better plan. I'm going to place him in an easily escapable situation involving an overly elaborate and exotic death."*holds up pinkie to mouth in trademark fasion

:laugh4: God, what a great movie.

[Mikeus Caesar]

While we're on the subject, are there any serious films (not in the comedy stylings of Austin Powers) where the bad guy actually wins?

I like depressing films like that.

Don't know why, it's an odd fascination i have with everything going terribly wrong.

[Proletariat]

Mikeus, alot of Asian dramas seem to offer to very harsh or at best bitter-sweet endings. But not alot of outright Evil Man pwns kinda way, the way Good Guys often win in more Western flicks. I guess you might need to go for movies like Snatch or Pulp Fiction where everyone is a scum bag, just some more likeable than others.

[Papewaio]

Yes a lot of fantasy-martial art Asian movies end with the heroic guy and girl going separate ways.

Now that is the biggest fantasy of the all. We are supposed to believe that in the most populous nations in the world they never ever get it on. :dizzy2:

[Csargo]

Because it would be a sucky movie?

[Papewaio]

Well if it was that sucky it would be x-rated. :drummer:

[Ayachuco]

O_o



*insert dirty joke here*



:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

[Peasant Phill]

I can't believe no has linked the Top 100 things I'd do if I ever became an evil overlord (http://www.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html).

It's THE checklist if you're planning something.

[R'as al Ghul]

While we're on the subject, are there any serious films (not in the comedy stylings of Austin Powers) where the bad guy actually wins?

I like depressing films like that.

Don't know why, it's an odd fascination i have with everything going terribly wrong.

You'll love this one: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0063032/

[Dutch_guy]

While we're on the subject, are there any serious films (not in the comedy stylings of Austin Powers) where the bad guy actually wins?

I like depressing films like that.

Don't know why, it's an odd fascination i have with everything going terribly wrong.

Hmm the only one I can think of is The Usual Suspects. Great movie.

:balloon2:

[Ronin]

While we're on the subject, are there any serious films (not in the comedy stylings of Austin Powers) where the bad guy actually wins?

I like depressing films like that.

Don't know why, it's an odd fascination i have with everything going terribly wrong.


Off the top of my head:

Se7en (the bad guy kinda wins in a way)
Swordfish (the bad guy kinda wins in a way)
Star Wars - The Empire Strikes Back (and it is the best episode exactly for that reason)
Fight Club
The Usual Suspects
the Final Destination movies (again..kinda)
Devils Advocate (again...kinda)

[Paradox]

There's one bad guy (the only one I remember right now) that never lets a person slip, Edward Longshanks. Right when he got Wallace, "Execute him!!", a villain definately not to be messed with.

[LittleGrizzly]

Skelenton Key is a good film for a really nasty ending just thinking abot it makes me cringe, 28 weeks later and any of the Saw films.

[Husar]

I know one, I know one: Carlito's Way (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106519/)!

I obviously liked it so much I even remember it's name.
Okay, if that wasn't convincing, it's starring Al Pacino. :thumbsup:

As to the original question, you're talking about movies here, Bijo.
To make that more clear, in that movie that had "Tears of the sun" or so they had this airstrike in the end which basically consisted of the following footage IIRC: jets taking off a carrier without any payload -> different jets(I forgot which type but I think they showed F-18s and then F-14s then F-18s again or so) flying through the air, then you had jets fire Sidewinders, which as we all know are air-to-air missiles which resulted in some sort of napalm inferno on the ground. :dizzy2:
It was so wrong I got the impression they just got some clips from the internet and inserted them. :laugh4:

Point is, movies don't have to make sense as long as they have a lot of boom-boom and ja-ja-ich komme thrown in. :sweatdrop:

I mean it would be nice if they had some logic, but either that doesn't sell well or someone always thinks illogical things improve the story. :shrug:

[Ramses II CP]

Braveheart is disqualified because it actually happened, more or less, so the writers had to stick to history. Wallace still got a pretty elaborate death, but there was clearly no chance of escape or recovery, and it's elaborate nature was just to entertain the crowd.

Plus, there was no bad guy in Fight Club, or good guy for that matter. Plenty of ambiguous movies in this vein where winning and losing, and being good or bad, are themselves called into question, but that's not the point.

Pan's Labyrinth is another one where the bad guys win, even if their representative on site is killed. We all know what happened to the anti-Franco rebels. :skull:

I'd say the bad guys win in the first Resident Evil movie too, given the nature of the last scene. :help:

:egypt:

[Fragony]

While we're on the subject, are there any serious films (not in the comedy stylings of Austin Powers) where the bad guy actually wins?

I like depressing films like that.

Don't know why, it's an odd fascination i have with everything going terribly wrong.

Pan's Labyrint, spanish fantasy-movie that's simply incredible. He does't really 'win' but he stays, and you will hate every inch of him, very cruel movie be warned.

[Paradox]

Braveheart is disqualified because it actually happened, more or less, so the writers had to stick to history. Wallace still got a pretty elaborate death, but there was clearly no chance of escape or recovery, and it's elaborate nature was just to entertain the crowd.

:egypt:
Braveheart's writers stuck to history? That's a joke, there are countless historical inaccuracies included.

[Fragony]

Braveheart's writers stuck to history? That's a joke, there are countless historical inaccuracies included.

Let's start with a certain bridge hehe

[TinCow]

While we're on the subject, are there any serious films (not in the comedy stylings of Austin Powers) where the bad guy actually wins?

I like depressing films like that.

Don't know why, it's an odd fascination i have with everything going terribly wrong.

Well, things going wrong and the bad guy winning are two different things. There are plenty of movies that have "unhappy" endings, but there's no bad guy winning in them. Examples (spoilered because knowing a film will have an unhappy ending can be a spoiler by itself):

Movies with an unhappy ending:
The Deer Hunter
Requiem for a Dream
Leaving Las Vegas
Brazil
Aguirre: The Wrath of God
Memento
12 Monkeys
Easy Rider
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
Dr. Strangelove (comedy, including the ending, but also very political and frickin' brilliant on all levels)
Barry Lyndon (depending on what you think of the main character)
Paths of Glory
A Clockwork Orange (yes, Kubrick disliked Hollywood endings)
The Thing


Movies where a bad guy actually wins:
Angel Heart
The Omen
Rosemary's Baby (yay for the Satan hat trick!)
Silence of the Lambs (kind of)
Hannibal (also kind of)
Primal Fear (Brilliant ending!)
Fallen
1984
Arlington Road
Every single Cube movie

[Ramses II CP]

Note that I said 'more or less' with regards to Braveheart and history. They followed the gist, particularly including the execution of Wallace, which was the part in question. :yes:

:egypt:

[Geoffrey S]

"'Do it?' Dan, I'm not a Republic serial villain. Do you seriously think I'd explain my master-stroke if there remained the slightest chance of you affecting its outcome? I did it thirty-five minutes ago." Classic.

While we're on the subject, are there any serious films (not in the comedy stylings of Austin Powers) where the bad guy actually wins?

I like depressing films like that.

Don't know why, it's an odd fascination i have with everything going terribly wrong.
Some great ones off the top of my head are...
Brazil (though I like to think Lowry won), Twelve Monkeys, Easy Rider, Barry Lyndon (much underrated classic by Kubrick), Ran (throughly depressing all the way through), Kagemusha, Thelma & Louise, The Butterfly Effect, Midnight Cowboy (brilliant), Falling Down ... Plenty to go around. Underground is pretty depressing a lot of the later half, but doesn't quite count as an unhappy film.
A somewhat more interesting question, in my opinion, is if there are any computer games with a definite bad ending? I know Kane & Lynch can't have a happy ending, but any others?

[Papewaio]

Off the top of my head:

Se7en (the bad guy kinda wins in a way)
Swordfish (the bad guy kinda wins in a way)
Devils Advocate (again...kinda)

Se7en... the bad guy wins because he gets the outcome that he desired, he dies at the hands of Wrath.
Swordfish... they aren't the bad guys. Don't you know that the guys who waterboard, use extraordinary rendition and imprison without charge are the good guys.
Devils Advocate... the bad guy actually loses. He's trying to get a child out of the deal and his lead donor blows his brains out, why at that point he didn't collect the testes and do a bit of IVF... see that's the problem with fundamentalists they deny themselves all sorts of technologies because if god had meant them to have wings they would fly.

[Conradus]

A somewhat more interesting question, in my opinion, is if there are any computer games with a definite bad ending? I know Kane & Lynch can't have a happy ending, but any others?

Max Payne 2 comes to mind

And does the butterfly effect has a bad ending? I thougt it was a good one for the hero, though not the best.

[Kralizec]

Taking your time to kill your enemy is not a sign of stupidity. Is it in any way strange that you try to enjoy a moment that you've been working for like, one to two hours? And there's nothing wrong with doing it in an imaginative way, since the chance that you get to kill your archenemy again is slight at best. A single gunshot? GAH!
As for the "fact" that it usually goes wrong that way, perhaps they just don't watch as many movies as you do. These people actually have jobs, remember.

The amount of prejudice and scorn in this thread is simply astonishing.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Pan's Labyrint, spanish fantasy-movie that's simply incredible. He does't really 'win' but he stays, and you will hate every inch of him, very cruel movie be warned.
I thought it was an excellent movie, but I didn't end up hating Vidal in the slightest. You could see he loved his son, and wanted his son to admire him, and putting down rebels in that area would have been an insanely tough and stressful job. Even if you don't like him (and liking him is damn near impossible), he's still an interesting character if you look at his depth.

A movie I've just thought of was The Wind That Shakes The Barley. I found it to be a well-made movie, and nobody really wins in the end. What an ending though...what an ending.

[Geoffrey S]

Max Payne 2 comes to mind

And does the butterfly effect has a bad ending? I thougt it was a good one for the hero, though not the best.
Max Payne 2... perhaps, but even that had the alternate happy ending.

The Butterfly Effect varies:
I think it depends on the version, since there are several possible endings. The one I saw is that he strangles himself in his mother's womb, and never exists. Bad for him, perhaps good for the rest. There are happier versions.

[woad&fangs]

"The Departed"

The bad guy doesn't win but neither does the good guy. I won't give anything else away. Go out and watch it. It's a great movie.

[The_Mark]

While we're on the subject, are there any serious films (not in the comedy stylings of Austin Powers) where the bad guy actually wins?

I like depressing films like that.

Don't know why, it's an odd fascination i have with everything going terribly wrong.
OldBoy (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0364569/) is your pick, then. It's an astonishing movie. I won't describe the events at all beyond the premise: Oh Dae-Su has been released after 15 years of imprisonment and is determined to dish out some serious revenge, telling you more would spoil things, and boy, would I want to - I won't even tell whether or not the good/bad guy wins :grin:

[Geoffrey S]

Bah, The Departed. I seriously can't stand that movie.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0364569/]OldBoy is your pick, then. It's an astonishing movie. I won't describe the events at all beyond the premise: Oh Dae-Su has been released after 15 years of imprisonment and is determined to dish out some serious revenge, telling you more would spoil things, and boy, would I want to - I won't even tell whether or not the good/bad guy wins :grin:
Oh, it's great. Most surprising in many ways.

[Pannonian]

"The Departed"

The bad guy doesn't win but neither does the good guy. I won't give anything else away. Go out and watch it. It's a great movie.
Or the original, "Infernal Affairs", where the bad guy does win.

[Beefy187]

I can think of several animes... :sweatdrop:

Other then that all I can think of is "Heroes season 2" and all "24" until Jack Baur pwns them all..:wall:

[Lemur]

I'm gonna list a movie, but it's currently in theaters, so don't clicky unless you (a) don't mind spoilage, or (b) aren't planning on going to the movies in the next couple of months.

No Country for Old Men

[Ronin]

Well, things going wrong and the bad guy winning are two different things. There are plenty of movies that have "unhappy" endings, but there's no bad guy winning in them. Examples (spoilered because knowing a film will have an unhappy ending can be a spoiler by itself):

Movies with an unhappy ending:
The Deer Hunter
Requiem for a Dream
Leaving Las Vegas
Brazil
Aguirre: The Wrath of God
Memento
12 Monkeys
Easy Rider
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
Dr. Strangelove (comedy, including the ending, but also very political and frickin' brilliant on all levels)
Barry Lyndon (depending on what you think of the main character)
Paths of Glory
A Clockwork Orange (yes, Kubrick disliked Hollywood endings)


Movies where a bad guy actually wins:
Angel Heart
The Omen
Rosemary's Baby (yay for the Satan hat trick!)
Silence of the Lambs (kind of)
Hannibal (also kind of)
Primal Fear (Brilliant ending!)
Fallen
1984
The Thing
Arlington Road
Every single Cube movie


I don´t really agree with the classification you wrote about "The Thing"


In the end the viewer is not sure if any of the last 2 survivors is infected, so there is no way to know if the bad guy won or not...for all we know 2 perfectly inocent people just freeze to death at the end...a dark ending for sure...but we can´t be sure if the thing survived or not.

[Ronin]

Se7en... the bad guy wins because he gets the outcome that he desired, he dies at the hands of Wrath.
Swordfish... they aren't the bad guys. Don't you know that the guys who waterboard, use extraordinary rendition and imprison without charge are the good guys.
Devils Advocate... the bad guy actually loses. He's trying to get a child out of the deal and his lead donor blows his brains out, why at that point he didn't collect the testes and do a bit of IVF... see that's the problem with fundamentalists they deny themselves all sorts of technologies because if god had meant them to have wings they would fly.


how could I forget that detail about swordfish :laugh4:

as for the Devils Advocate...i must disagree


the ending shows that despite the fact that he blew his brains out and foiled the devils plan the devil just pushed time back and is gonna have another crack at him....this time using another tactic "Vanity, definitely my favorite sin."

I guess the ending is like this, the devil didn´t get his way that time but he can´t be defeated, the game just continues on....so maybe we can call it a draw.

[TinCow]

I don´t really agree with the classification you wrote about "The Thing"


In the end the viewer is not sure if any of the last 2 survivors is infected, so there is no way to know if the bad guy won or not...for all we know 2 perfectly inocent people just freeze to death at the end...a dark ending for sure...but we can´t be sure if the thing survived or not.


Perhaps, but as you said we're not sure. At best it's a question of whether it's just an 'unhappy ending' or whether the bad guy wins. Certainly no roses in sight.

[Ronin]

Perhaps, but as you said we're not sure. At best it's a question of whether it's just an 'unhappy ending' or whether the bad guy wins. Certainly no roses in sight.

no...the bad guy never wins because

The things objective is to get out of the antartic, that´s why the infected doctor was trying to build a spaceship, so either 2 innocent people die or one innocent people dies preventing the thing from escaping and taking over the rest of the world


it is certainly a bleak ending in any case.

[TinCow]

Alright, you've convinced me. I'll move it to the 'unhappy' section.

[econ21]

Pan's Labyrinth is another one where the bad guys win, even if their representative on site is killed. We all know what happened to the anti-Franco rebels.

That was about the only weak point in an otherwise brilliant film. Why did they respresent the anti-Franco rebels winning? Given the history, the oppressive Phalangist control during most of the film and the shocking ending, the rebels destroying the deathstar aspect seemed discordant. Maybe the director was going for discordant in general? (the mix of realism and fantasy, of children's fairy tale and adult themes etc were all discordant and compelling for that reason.) Maybe the rebels' "victory" was supposed to complement a more upbeat fantastical reading of the core ending? But I found both the rebels' victory and the possible upbeat reading of the end both offered cold comfort - definitely one for TinCow's "unhappy" section.

[Ramses II CP]

Heavy Pan's Labyrinth spoilers:

I took the PL ending as another example of the layers within layers approach to the movie. On the surface the rebels have a momentary fairy tale ending, having beaten back the offensive that was chasing them, but, as with the child, you have to remember they had already surrendered the goals of the revolution and the idea of victory and were only trying to escape into France. All of their dreams were already dead when the movie started, all that was left was to run away and tell each other, and the newborn, stale lies to try to deny their defeat.

I took Ofelia's story the same way, such that while she could trick, tease, and struggle to escape, she could not truly fight and in the end any thought of having a life, of victory, was simply a fantasy. All little girls want to be secret fairy princesses, but in the end they all die.

IIRC del Toro called his movie 'profane,' and that's a pretty good description of what I saw as the core idea of the film, which could be simply put as 'Nobody gets out alive, but if you want to buy yourself some more time you're going to get blood on your hands. All else is fantasy.'

So IMHO you can't really say the rebels 'won' in the movie, just that a few of them did get out, for the moment, with their lives and their lies. Of course with any complicated, murky film there's going to be an element of the reviewer in the review, so take my interpretation with that in mind.:laugh4:

:egypt:

[Caeser The III]

yes! i hate this, i mean sometimes you want the villian to win!

[Mouzafphaerre]

.

The Usual Suspects. Great movie.

:balloon2:


Pan's Labyrint, spanish fantasy-movie that's simply incredible.

Ditto! :2thumbsup:
.

[Fragony]

Another one for Mikeus, 'Zwartboek', dutch ww2 movie. It isn't really that the bad guy wins but it's deliciously cynical. It helps that one of the most charming creatures on god's earth is playing in it.