Grrr.....Over extended

[Hellenic_Hoplite]

I'm playing as the Romani and it's 206 BC, I've been in a war with the carthaganians for quite some time now and for the most part kicking their butts. my empire ranges from the Turkish cost to parts of Ibera. (already conquered all of greece, the macedonians have been driven to thrace. I also have most of gaul although central gaul belongs to the arverni) Now this is where my problems start, I've been destroying stack after stack of Carthaganian armies in spain, all I seem to have there are those crappy iberian light spearmen and a few iberian light infantry. at the same time my former allies the arverni and the macedonians decided to betray me and are sending huge stacks against my Gaulic and northern Greek cities, not only that but for no reason the giant ptolomic empire decided they wanted war for no reason. (they destroyed all of the seleucid empire and their empire ranges from egypt to india :help: ) I think I'm going to have to start a new campaign.

any advice?

edit* Forgot to mention I also have north africa although thats not threatened at the moment

[Poulp']

Don't start a new campaign, yours is getting interesting.

You're in the middle of a two-front war. First, finish the job on one front; since the Ptolemees are the master of the East, I'll go and finish Iberia/Gaul first.

See the Rhine and Banub rivers ? Well, make everything west of the Rhine and south of the Danub yours, hold the bridges and pacify the land. Then, relocate your spare troops to your eastern front (very few troops, considering how rebellious Iberia is).

What's new on the eastern front ? You've got the Ionian coast against a completely yellow east. How many stacks are you facing ? Do you think you can hold ? How much reinforcements can you get from Greece ? Are they enough ?

Stupid AI should be bent on taking one of your city, ignoring the others. If there are no other threats, you can :
1/ muster all your troops into the targeted city, or
2/ form an army and let it roam in Asia Minor, ready to hit anything left unprotected (or simply divert some of their attention before being annihilated...)
3/ same as 2/ but more aggresive: form an army led by a FM and take and hold a chokepoint (Antiocheia/Tarsos) against them. They will have to get through your fortress before reaching the Ionian coast.

There are two points to bear in mind, don't give those cities away without a fight and you're probably in for a long period of time on the defensive. Are you ready to face endless stacks before you can finally go on the offensive ?

[marodeur]

No! Don't start a new campaign! You are just at the point where the game get's interesting.
By having conquered so much land already you should have enough money to build quite an army. So don't buy too many weak local armies, but concentrate on roman legions. For example phalangite mercenaries, cretan archers and gallic riders are good support, but don't waste your money on Lugoae or other light militia reserves.
Send about 2 fullstacks against gaul and against hispania each, try to make a beachhead in Africa with one or two fullstacks and try to secure your border in the east with one or two. Build city walls to help in the defense of your eastern cities. If you can establish a beachhead in africa, you will force the karthagians to turn around and stop investing in iberia.
I know you can't recruit roman troops outside italy - so produce reserves, transport them to the frontlines with ships, and reinforce your troops by merging them. You don't have to return your frontline troops back home to reinforce them. It's a question of logistics.
The turns will take a bit longer, but you will wade through rivers of blood :skull: and in the end you will triumph. I hope you will enjoy it. It's a hard time you have to go through, but it is the most interesting part of the game: for the first (and last time) your empires supremacy is in question, cause all enemies unite against you. Break your enemys backs this time, and they will not be able to threaten you again.
Good Luck!:2thumbsup:

[Imperial Fist]

If your empire is that big, you should have enough money to deal with your foes.
Establish some supply lines and try do defeat one enemy after another.
Since you are in 206bc and have polybian troops you should start with the gauls cause of obvious reasons. I also think i wont get better in a new campaigne.

[Hellenic_Hoplite]

I thought about it and I think i'll stick it out, besides the reason I play EB is because I don't find vanilla RTW challenging enough. These tips should come as great help since before I was sending endless legions on both fronts.

[pezhetairoi]

Dammit, if you quit now I will kill you. This is the part where EB is fun! Usually what I do at this point is put my Italian cities into overdrive and churn out legions like nuts. Suggestion, deal with Gaul first, and start building allied facilities in Bononia, Mediolanum and Patavium. Hold your cards close and play defensive until your Neitos and Brihentin training facilities are up and running. With Neitos you can hold the line far better than even with legionaries.

In Spain, you MUST rely on transshipment of troops from Italia. Milites and Caetrati are simply not going to cut it.

In the east, try to hold out with Lonchophoroi and Hoplitai. They are trainable in Greece, and are certainly more than adequate, if you have a fullstack of them, to crush the Ptolemaioi. That way you take some pressure off your Roman training facilities. Let Greece take care of itself. If your hoplitai facilities aren't up yet, then try to hold with one army in Greece, give up Ionia and hold Byzantion with another army you can use to take the offensive against the Makedonioi, one army in Spain, and two in Gaul. In Spain, try to hold on to what you have and stop attacking. The Qarthadastim can't possibly hurl stacks at you as fast as you can destroy them anyway.

Ensure a constant flow of reinforcements from Italia via your fleets. Send something like a halfstack worth per army to nearby cities. I usually, where Romans are concerned, send 3 non-Roman units, 5 legion units (2-2-1) and 2 cavalry units at one go. With 8 cities, you can pull off the production of one vexillarium a turn.

Once you've stabilised the fronts, train up a couple more legions and concentrate overwhelming force on one faction. You definitely have the economic resources by now to raise at least six to seven Polybian fullstacks. (I once had 7 Marian fullstack legions with all continental Europe conquered, and still was earning 15k a turn.) I would recommend the Gauls, because their troops are most valuable and highest-level. Then hurl everything against Spain. Then, send everything east, use one or two to finish off Makedonia, then everything south to finish off the Qarthadastim. Only attack the Ptolemaioi after you've finished off all these, then pincer attack via Asia Minor while you launch an invasion of the Egyptian heartland (which should be denudedof troops by now) and finish off their elite and cavalry training facilitieson the Nile . Isolate them from the Levant, then hold until Marians hit and you get instant armies anywhere you go. Then sock them hard all the way back to Mesopotamia.

[Hellenic_Hoplite]

So far the Egyptians managed to kick me out of my two colonies in turkey, I'm trying my best to get Byzantium built up with Stone walls while getting as many troops in it as possible. I'm no longer sending legions to two fronts I've been sending them all to gaul, the Arverni managed to take two of my Gaulic cities. I've taken one back and also taken their capital and destroyed most of their army. I have legions in gaul and more being built. It's going to be a while before I'm powerful enough to take on Egypt in their on their own turf so until I take the rest of spain and gaul I'm going to stay on the defensive with them. I've also managed to take most of africa, I'm glad I did because I'm seeing alot less of those dreaded "Elite African Pikemen" and seeing more Iberian Militias and "Liby-Phoenecian Infantry"

[Poulp']

Sounds good so far

In Asia Minor, even if you don't have the manpower, you'll probably want to spam the place with spies; keeping an eye on your enemy and helping rebellion is always a sound idea.

[blado]

Mind if I ask for a picture of your empire?

[marodeur]

Mind if I ask for a picture of your empire?

Good idea. And for the rest - go on! You will get them down. Ignore Egypt, stay on the defense and destroy every opposition in the west.

[pezhetairoi]

Yes, ignore Egypt. A word of advice, keep your army just outside Byzantion, not inside of it. Field battles of relief are far more economical on troops and much more experience-gaining than siege battles. Sally battles have a monster city in the middle of the map, so you can only run around the edges. It really is very tedious.

Good to hear about the Gauls, remember that the objective of war is not territory but the destruction of your enemy's armies. The territory in the vicinity comes along with that. Dealing with Africa so fast was perhaps not a good idea... It's a second front that can't really support the other theatres yet...

[marodeur]

Dealing with Africa so fast was perhaps not a good idea... It's a second front that can't really support the other theatres yet...

In my opinion it is always a good idea to threaten kart-hadast at its source of power. worked well for me as a romanoi as well as a ptoley.

[pezhetairoi]

True. Though it would certainly be enough to drive the Qarthadastim out of Spain, then wait for them to ceasefire as they surely will since they no longer share a land border. Then you can ally with them against the Ptolies, whom they will undoubtedly be at war with.

How's the situation in Spain, anyhows?

[Gaivs]

Upload this save! Id love to play a campaign like this, sounds fun!

[CirdanDharix]

To be honest, you've got as good a representation as any the RTW engine will give you of why the real-life SPQR did not do as you did and blitz the entire map in just under a century. Fall back and consolidate if you need to; you'll always be able to come back and obtain revenge later.

[marodeur]

if it has to be, give away some provinces to other factions you are allied with or who are neutral to you but at war with your enemy to build a buffer zone. it may be necessary to give them a bit of money to make them take the provinces (one of many stupidities concerning the RTW-diplomacy-engine: you have to pay for the acceptance of land given away!!!:furious3: ). but it can be a good deal for you anyhow because it lessens the pressure to your borders so you need not so many troops and do not have to pay for retraining this often. and friendly neighbours will also trade with you, enlarging your treasury.

[Hellenic_Hoplite]

Sorry about the lack of pictures and saves, unfortunatly this game is on my other computer. (if only it had internet access :shame: )

I took a break from my campaign for about a day but I'm getting back on it today so I'll give you all updates when I get them.

[pezhetairoi]

You really must keep us updated, this is shaping up to be really exciting.

[Hellenic_Hoplite]

I have some pictures and a save on this disk, any idea how to post them?

[Hellenic_Hoplite]

accidental post, please delete

[Hooahguy]

I have some pictures and a save on this disk, any idea how to post them?

w/ the pix, try uploading them onto photobucket.com or s/t like that, but you lost me w/ the file upload. try rapidshare, or s/t like that.

[Hellenic_Hoplite]

the thing is, they're in rich text document format, I'm not sure how to change them.

[Hooahguy]

ooh..... get the original pictures, and convert them into jpg, then upload them. use www.irfanview.com to convert it- its the easiest way to convert tgas files to jpg with no hassles- just open the tgas, then click "save as" then choose the file type u want to save it as.....

[Hellenic_Hoplite]

https://img156.imageshack.us/img156/8650/image1ge8.jpg

Finally got it to work :D

More to come.

[Hellenic_Hoplite]

https://img253.imageshack.us/img253/1927/image4yq9.jpg

https://img253.imageshack.us/img253/89/image2zz2.jpg

https://img253.imageshack.us/img253/3287/image3ay3.jpg

[Menander of India]

Can you post a picture with the FOW turned off?
The Ptolemaic Empire is impressive!!
However, if you don't take the Ptolemies into consideration, the situation doesn't seem that bad. Good luck with it!

[Hellenic_Hoplite]

Seems the Carthagenians are making a little "comeback", thats what I get for giving them the right to be a cliant state.

https://img255.imageshack.us/img255/2247/carthagerevoltfc1.jpg

Sorry I forgot to turn the FoW off, I'll be sure to do it the next time.

Edit*

I didn't think anyone would be this intereasted in my campaigns, maybe I'll make an AAR on my next campaign.

[marodeur]

The Ptolies for sure are a problem... a most impressive one... But in gaul you should be able to destroy your enemies. After finnising of the Arverni, go for the carthaginans. The iberian mines will boost your economy even more. Hold the line at the hellespont, this should be possible with one larger fleet and one or two stacks of troops. If possible, ally yourself with the Koinon Hellenion and Pontos (or at least give them some money for fighting against the ptolies), they are an important buffer. Probably, if you conquer Kyrene, you can even hand it to the KoiHell or the maks, to have a little buffer in northern africa too.
Avoid being sucked in the sandwars in northern africa against the ptolies, stay on the defensive, build city walls and probably some forts, occupy river crossings to make every advance as costy as possible for them. Probably you can even attack the ptolies coastlines with a halfstack on a fleet: raids in Alexandria, Sidon, Antiochia and others will seriously damage their economy. Storm the town, massacre the inhabitants, destroy every destroyable building. with a little bit of luck, you will be able to change the coastal cities in rebellious hotbeds, raising against their ptolie-overlords every possible time. If you are making a raid for example against Sidon, you can also hire merchenaries and send them on raids deeper in ptolie-land (for example Damascus,...). The money from plunder will cover the mercenaries costs. When you have finished the Carthaginans in Iberia and northern Africa, you can turn your full attention against the Ptolies. Make sure to secure the rhine - and if possible, the danube- border against the northern barbarians (by occupying the rivercrossings). It will be an interesting campaign. Good luck!

[pezhetairoi]

On the Qarthadastim in North Africa...ownage. That was idiocy, leaving Qarthadastim as a client state. Whatever were you thinking!? Delenda est Carthago, man! :( As it is, congratulations, you've just given yourself a second front that you can ill afford at this time. Happy trying to fix the situation, I don't have a solution since I would never had let such a thing happen.

On Gaul, I suppose you are intending to unleash those full stacks I see in Emporion, Tolosa and Viennos on the enemy? You can quickly end the Gallic wars by sending the Viennos army at the Belgae, while your Gergovian troops are sent to reinforce the army besieging Lemonum, which ought to be the only concentration of so many Gallic troops left since you said you'd destroyed all the Gallic forces otherwise. Sally the Emporion army, break the Qarthadastim besieging you, then attack towards Numantia to get a central position while your Arse army secures its boundary then immediately strikes out for Mastia.

How are your logistics at the moment? Greece looks secure at the moment from the Yellows, so no worries there. Your weakest links are Illyria (unless you combine all the stacks in Segestica, Dalminion and Epidamnos--you don't need that huge a garrison) and Africa. You're about to lose Atiqa unless you raise another legion to take Kart-Hadast. You might as well use that legion to raid the Ptolies. Raid up the Nile, if you can. Do attach a savegame someday...

[blado]

Egypt is gigantic! In my new campain they are expanding rather slowly.

[beatoangelico]

that yellow death scares me :skull:

[Pezlu]

If I think you haveto destroy the ptolemies to win the campaign... :no:

My empire is still smaller then yours (I'm also playing with romani) so I don't have all those problems, but the ptolemies are not that different, and I'm quite afraid of them myself. But I still have Pontos (my faithful ally so far) as a buffer.

[Poulp']

When you can afford the resources, take the islands, Crete and Cyprus.
From there, you'll be able to raid the Near East, especially Syria. Bands of mercenaries roaming into Ptolemaic heartland is a nice idea.

Be a true Roman and raze Carthage. Exterminate every settlement you conquer to pacify Western Europe ASAP. Of course, if you're having population problems, enslavement is better.

In North Africa, you'll need 3 stacks; 1 to defend Lepci and the other 2 to go west (once Carthage is dealt with)

[Jaywalker-Jack]

Wow, Ive never seen Egypt get so big. And judging by those purple islands the Parthians overran the Seleucids before that?? What campaign difficulty do you use? I always use normal, and Ive never seen the AI do anything like that kind of expanding.

Egypt and Seleucia always seem to get stuck in a permanent stalemate, and Parthia just wait for Baktria to kill them. I'll add that Ive NEVER ONCE seen the Sarmatians take a province. How normal is this?

[Gaivs]

Wow, Ive never seen Egypt get so big. And judging by those purple islands the Parthians overran the Seleucids before that?? What campaign difficulty do you use? I always use normal, and Ive never seen the AI do anything like that kind of expanding.

Egypt and Seleucia always seem to get stuck in a permanent stalemate, and Parthia just wait for Baktria to kill them. I'll add that Ive NEVER ONCE seen the Sarmatians take a province. How normal is this?

Thats very normal. The Sarmatians never take a province, and the Casse never leave the British isles. IMO Casse is a useless faction.

[bigmilt16]

I gotta agree, Yellow death is in full effect. What is your difficulty?

I'm about to start a new Romani campaign, and I think I'm going on M/M because I got tired of the relentless expansion and mindless negotiation skills by the AI.

[Hellenic_Hoplite]

On Vanilla My difficulty is generally VH/VH although on EB it's M/M I also make it harder on my self by autoresolving most of my battles (yes I know I'm lazy :laugh4: )

I've been playing my campaign more of my campaign today and I'll post more pics and updates tomorrow night if anyone wants them.

[Severian Huizi]

And I thought I was pushing it just fighting the Aedui and Carthaginians at the same time. The thought of having to throw Polybians at overpaid, overarmored Hellenic phalanxes on top of it is horrifying.

[Pezlu]

The thought of having to throw Polybians at overpaid, overarmored Hellenic phalanxes on top of it is horrifying.

Polybians? Just send Neitos there :laugh4:


(joke aside, they are extremely effective; you can even charge phalanxes from the front without too much risk in you want :P Not much historical though, I would guess :P)

[pezhetairoi]

Polybians can actually cut it, though, as long as they are principes/triarii. And that is if you have lonchophoroi/brihentin doing the outflanking.

[Jaywalker-Jack]

Thats very normal. The Sarmatians never take a province, and the Casse never leave the British isles. IMO Casse is a useless faction.

Putting an army in a ship, moving the ship, and taking out the army is a little too complicated for the AI. Still though, you can trade away to your heart's content with the Casse and never have to worry about them invading.
The Saramatians though... at the moment in a Carthaginian campaign Ive gone well out of my way to give them a few provinces, just to try and resussitate them. Hasnt worked yet.

[marodeur]

Thats very normal. The Sarmatians never take a province, and the Casse never leave the British isles. IMO Casse is a useless faction.

About steppe-nations :charge:
In my campaigns, the Samatians often take some of the steppe-provinces controlled by the Eleutheroi in the beginning, sometimes they even take Sapmi or Egrisi, leaving the steppes by doing this. But: they are always one of the first factions to be destroyed. I think, steppe factions are at a severe disadvantage in RTW and also EB because they have to defend cities with units not suited to this task. With the horde-option it would be more realistic and they would be able to fight in a more steppe-like way: don't defend a fixed position, stay on the move. If controlled by the ai, steppe troops should also retreat after having used up their missiles (after taking down some isolated, weakened units), and such a raid should count as a victory for them, if they kill lots of enemys and retreat without severe losses. Thanks to the TW-engine the use up their arrows - and after that, try to ride down even complete phalanxes. This change in tactics should also be represented in auto-battles. I guess that by this it would be prevented, that hordes of indian spearmen (Baktria) or hellenic phalangites (Seleukids) conquer the steppes - taking down the horse archers - incredible! Sarmatia, Parthia, Saka would be much more dangerous and nearly invincible on their hometurf by infantry-armies.

And about Casse
For Casse, I have to admit that they are very passive. But I have (in most of my campaigns) given one or two provinces in Gaul to them. Most of the time, the casse beginns producing troops in gaul and gets an active participant in the continental wars (even though they don't start to transport troops from britain to europe - there are simply too many pirates up there). This makes the gallic civil war more interesting (and makes it more realistic, with more tribes fighting each other).

[Jaywalker-Jack]

In reality significant settlements didnt exist on the steppes in this period. If there were a way for a province to exist without a settlement in it...
A big departure from how the game normally works, but it would be realistic. Settled civilizations, as in reality, would be hard pressed to hold on to territory there because there would be no "power node" to conquer.
A "nomad type province" would be owned by whatever faction had the most forces in it. Nomadic factions would have a huge advantage in controlling these provinces because of how quickly an all cavalry army can move, and their style of warfare. If as a settled civilization you wanted to conquer the steppe you would have to build forts to control borders, keeping the nomads out.

Of course, the game engine probably dosnt allow for any of this.