insolent1
10-04-2002, 00:30
The Polish Struggle
I have only managed to finish one campaign so far as the english. I've played the following factions all on expert early period Spainish, Danish, English, French & Italians. I will finish all these games once the patch comes out to sort out the savegame problem. I was the most powerful faction in all of these games by early 1200's. So I decided I would try the high period for a change.
So I had a go at the Polish(they remind me of the a cross between the Shimazu clan no money & the oda clan surrounded but rebel provinces to be got quickly). First off I would like to say that this faction is without a doubt the hardest faction I have played yet. To begin with you get an absoulutely terrible royal line. I have only had 1 heir that I can actually use as a general & he spawned with rank 2, he is now rank 6(I did get a rank 6 heir but he was a coward). No good ship captains(I noticed on expert no matter who you play you get very few good captains but the polish get none). You start off with only 2 provinces Silsea & Poland & you also start off with a lower tech then most others example Russians,italians & hungarians get citadel & you only get a castle. There is also only one special unit for the Polish and they can only be produced in Poland and since they can only be produced in Poland the province should have been given a +1 to valour for Polish Retainers.
Polish Retainers
Without a doubt my favorite medium cav. They have an irrestible charge & have excellent morale & when you get that cathedral built in poland they are almost unstoppable. So far I have found that they out perform feudal knights in most situations and they are cheaper plus the support costs are great compared to knights. They have allowed me to experiment with cav tatics a lot more & I have yet to see them route(they fight to the death). This unit in my opinion is the best asset for the polish.
Starting position
Its a tough one as you are surrounded by bigger/more highly teched factions but you have access to a lot of rebel provinces quickly.
Resources
Virtually none http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif Poland will give you about 700 florins a year with 60% agric built & a good governor(So far I have found it extremely difficult to get any good acumen units compared to other factions eg I have 16 provinces & only 3 have governors).
On my first attempt I took pomerania first(big mistake) & was doing OK for about 50 years then everything started going wrong. So after rethinking my first few moves I have come up with a good strategy for the polish. Here are the 4 things that worked best for me:
ALLIANCES are essentially useless and I have played a campaign as the Italians where I only ever had 1 ally(the Papacy) & noticed no real difference between the campaigns when I made tried to make allies. But as Poland I've accpeted all that where offered & only seeked 2 the Hungarians & the Papacy. The Hungarians wether allied or neutral have never attacked me & I have left Poland without a garrison for long periods of time 10+ years.
MORALE is essential as every single battle I have fought as the Polish I have always been heavily outnumbered. So if u get a heir that has a good rank & any bad morale vices use him as cannonfodder. Feudal Sergeants come with 2 morale as standard compared to the chiv's coming with 0 so I have found the feudal sergeants to be indisspensible, these act as the backbone of my army & they have a better attack compared to chiv's.
RELIGION is without a doubt a really great card to play as the polish(even tough you don't get crusades). I build churchs & monasteries in all my troop producing provinces & I also have 2 strategic unit producing provinces. All my generals suffer from extremely low piety & have loads of negative piety vices. So put bishops & cardinals(when u get them) with all your generals as inquisitors will have a field day on your generals. Something I noted from all my other camapigns with other factions is that I trained all my grand inquisitors on Polish & hungarian generals, heirs & kings.
SUBTERFUGE is essential as the Polish as you won't get miltary supremecy till much later in the game compared to other factions(this is due to one factor you will not be able to tech up as you could with other factions). Build a tavern & build some Assassin's quickly. Train them every turn(I have 1 6star, 2 5stars & I need more) only go for 0 valour strategic pieces(& only go for the ones that are in the sitting position as they are really spying & are less likely to move). You will need the high valour assassins for keeping your generals safe from inquisitors. Spys are needed in numbers. Use them with bishops(put the bishops in a few years ahead of the spys) & you get christian revolts that often join your faction & you can get some very good units from these & maybe even a good general. Build border forts everywhere as the place will soon be crawling with assassins.
MISER is the best way to go as the Polish you really have to knuckle down to keep teching up.
With other factions I found that I was able to assign a province for archer, a province for spear, a province for religion and so on and you could get all these started in the first few years. But with the Polish you can't do that as you only start with 2 provinces & have a very low income & once your army swells you start loosing money fast. Use your heirs in battle as these guys suck up money especially when there are a few of them early on in the campaign & they will be crap so they might aswell die with honour fighting hordes of pesants. Don't rush to build ships as trade will only be a small supplement to your income for a long time.
Strategy
The main thing to do at the start is to get lithuania as this is teched up to castle & has spear & archer guilds & you will be able to produce Lithunanian cavalry later on(they are nearly as good as the polish retainers & cheaper than knights). So first move is to take Prussia with all your units from Poland with your king who will become one of the greatest generals in history & will eventually die. You will have to take Lithiania in the first 3 moves before the Russians get it. Max tax in prussia to create a revolt every turn for the next couple of years & crush them with your king till you get a general rank 2 or above to take over make sure he has no bad morale v&v's as he will be facing hordes. The revolts will be made up of approx 1500 pesants & fanatics. Your king and his unit of RK's will chew these for breakfast example
Battle
Line up your very small army, mine consisted of King, 2 PR's, 1 spear & 1 feudal sergeant with your king in centre. Deploy close to enemy spawn make sure there are no forests around or your cav might be in trouble. Charge the general with your king send spear & FS to protect his flanks & send the 2 PR's on the outer enemy flanks. Your king will kill the general really quick & the whole army will fold, get as many kills/captives as possible as this will increase their valour( I have mountains of screenshots from these battles they are hilarious)
Repeat as many times as you want till the catholic precentage goes to about about 40% after that you will face better troops & worst of all spearman which happen to kill your mighty cav
The revolts also supplemented my income for 10-15 years with most earings from confiscated land 2226Florins
Be careful not to get a revolt in lithunania as it will be made up of better troops. I was lucky & took it in 2 turns without a fight as the rebels where attacking Kiev. But its very important that you get Lithunainia & end the seige as you need another troop producing province that is already semi teched quickly. Do not waste money bribing armies as all the surrounding rebel provinces aren't worth it & its much better to keep tryin to save money for when you need it. Arbalests are needed(must have) for beating the Russians as you will face hordes or horse archers. Stay in forests when he has loads & just have your arbalests returning fire. I haven't bothered even teching up for pasive arbalests as I need more mobility & can't afford to waste 8 years for them in Poland.
Prussia for ships & strategic units
Pomerania for trade, ships & strategic units
Poland for nearly everything especially cathredal as its prerequsite for university as i'm playing GA
Lithunania for all troops types(I got it with spear guild & bowyar guild) & trade
Silsea for nothing it comes with an inn so you could use it for mercs if you are at war with the neighbouring province(mercs have twice the support costs of normal troops). But I chose not to build anything apart from border fort(The HRE might swarm it with hordes of men & only Poland & lithunainia are worth holding.
Volhinya well when I finally did take it I only built a border fort & used this as a trap for the Russians/Turks/Scillians example
I had held if for maybe 10 years & it was 97% christian with 200% loyalty on low taxes. I had one of my usless heirs guarding it by himself. When the Russians/Turks/Sciallians decided to take it I would retreat, put about 10+ spys in it & get a loyalist revolt with some very nice troops & would then take it back off them, repeat
You will need a very good general to hold Lithunania(at the moment mine is rank 9 he got the vice often drunk so he lost 1 command but hes got that back already. Lithunania has been attacked every year for the last 16 years by the Russians. always more than 2 to 1 in their favour but after all this I have made a shambles of the Russian royal line & his top generals all now are cowards, hesitant, good runner, doubtful courage etc
My army consisted of 3 arbalests, 4 FS, 1 halberdier, 2 PR(lol they are valour 8 & still climbing) & my general which is a valour 10 Feudal Sergeant(possibbly the toughest unit I have ever seen in MTW he has actually won massive battles by himself) he also has the vice brave beyond belief & he truly lives up to that.
Finally after all those battles i'm now becoming a power to reckon with. I got livdonia to have a religious revolt that joined my faction & with these troops & the troops from the loyalist revolts I have takin Novorgorond & its citadel from the Russians and at the moment i'm seiging Moscow. Now all I have to do is fight off the Almohad horde that has taken the British Isles & has annillated the Spainish & Aragonese & are in the processs of savaging the french.....oh whats this the turkish are marching on Europe aswell(dam no crusades) I think they will have to meet the Polish hordes well maybe hordes is not the right word, I think dozens is more like it so the Polish dozens are gonna have to tend to a little religious matter in western & south eastern parts of Europe led by 2 perverse humanist rank 9 generals & their unstoppable small armies not even full stacks but all valour 6-7-8 & God is on their side http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Heres some other stuff I have noticed
1. When playing high period camapigns I have never got the invention of gunpowder parchment at year end 1159 or after & I have not been able to build bell foundaries & gunsmith's till very late 1200's early 1300's.......maybe its a bug with the high period campaign & I have not seen it mentioned anywhere.
2. Starting on high period so far for me has been a lot harder/enjoyable than the early period as the AI can give you a better fight with more advanced units & more income. (poor Byzantines not getting constantinople in high period)
3. Don't rely on the mongol invasion to keep the Russians busy for long so that you can backstab the Russians. They normally get thrashed same turn as they arrive but sometimes they do manage to hang on for a while(In my first attempt as the Polish they survived for 15 years , then a few years later the faction respawned LOL I have the pic)
I will hopefully be able to give some more tips in afew days unless I encounter the old CTD problem that has plagued all but one of my camapigns
I have only managed to finish one campaign so far as the english. I've played the following factions all on expert early period Spainish, Danish, English, French & Italians. I will finish all these games once the patch comes out to sort out the savegame problem. I was the most powerful faction in all of these games by early 1200's. So I decided I would try the high period for a change.
So I had a go at the Polish(they remind me of the a cross between the Shimazu clan no money & the oda clan surrounded but rebel provinces to be got quickly). First off I would like to say that this faction is without a doubt the hardest faction I have played yet. To begin with you get an absoulutely terrible royal line. I have only had 1 heir that I can actually use as a general & he spawned with rank 2, he is now rank 6(I did get a rank 6 heir but he was a coward). No good ship captains(I noticed on expert no matter who you play you get very few good captains but the polish get none). You start off with only 2 provinces Silsea & Poland & you also start off with a lower tech then most others example Russians,italians & hungarians get citadel & you only get a castle. There is also only one special unit for the Polish and they can only be produced in Poland and since they can only be produced in Poland the province should have been given a +1 to valour for Polish Retainers.
Polish Retainers
Without a doubt my favorite medium cav. They have an irrestible charge & have excellent morale & when you get that cathedral built in poland they are almost unstoppable. So far I have found that they out perform feudal knights in most situations and they are cheaper plus the support costs are great compared to knights. They have allowed me to experiment with cav tatics a lot more & I have yet to see them route(they fight to the death). This unit in my opinion is the best asset for the polish.
Starting position
Its a tough one as you are surrounded by bigger/more highly teched factions but you have access to a lot of rebel provinces quickly.
Resources
Virtually none http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif Poland will give you about 700 florins a year with 60% agric built & a good governor(So far I have found it extremely difficult to get any good acumen units compared to other factions eg I have 16 provinces & only 3 have governors).
On my first attempt I took pomerania first(big mistake) & was doing OK for about 50 years then everything started going wrong. So after rethinking my first few moves I have come up with a good strategy for the polish. Here are the 4 things that worked best for me:
ALLIANCES are essentially useless and I have played a campaign as the Italians where I only ever had 1 ally(the Papacy) & noticed no real difference between the campaigns when I made tried to make allies. But as Poland I've accpeted all that where offered & only seeked 2 the Hungarians & the Papacy. The Hungarians wether allied or neutral have never attacked me & I have left Poland without a garrison for long periods of time 10+ years.
MORALE is essential as every single battle I have fought as the Polish I have always been heavily outnumbered. So if u get a heir that has a good rank & any bad morale vices use him as cannonfodder. Feudal Sergeants come with 2 morale as standard compared to the chiv's coming with 0 so I have found the feudal sergeants to be indisspensible, these act as the backbone of my army & they have a better attack compared to chiv's.
RELIGION is without a doubt a really great card to play as the polish(even tough you don't get crusades). I build churchs & monasteries in all my troop producing provinces & I also have 2 strategic unit producing provinces. All my generals suffer from extremely low piety & have loads of negative piety vices. So put bishops & cardinals(when u get them) with all your generals as inquisitors will have a field day on your generals. Something I noted from all my other camapigns with other factions is that I trained all my grand inquisitors on Polish & hungarian generals, heirs & kings.
SUBTERFUGE is essential as the Polish as you won't get miltary supremecy till much later in the game compared to other factions(this is due to one factor you will not be able to tech up as you could with other factions). Build a tavern & build some Assassin's quickly. Train them every turn(I have 1 6star, 2 5stars & I need more) only go for 0 valour strategic pieces(& only go for the ones that are in the sitting position as they are really spying & are less likely to move). You will need the high valour assassins for keeping your generals safe from inquisitors. Spys are needed in numbers. Use them with bishops(put the bishops in a few years ahead of the spys) & you get christian revolts that often join your faction & you can get some very good units from these & maybe even a good general. Build border forts everywhere as the place will soon be crawling with assassins.
MISER is the best way to go as the Polish you really have to knuckle down to keep teching up.
With other factions I found that I was able to assign a province for archer, a province for spear, a province for religion and so on and you could get all these started in the first few years. But with the Polish you can't do that as you only start with 2 provinces & have a very low income & once your army swells you start loosing money fast. Use your heirs in battle as these guys suck up money especially when there are a few of them early on in the campaign & they will be crap so they might aswell die with honour fighting hordes of pesants. Don't rush to build ships as trade will only be a small supplement to your income for a long time.
Strategy
The main thing to do at the start is to get lithuania as this is teched up to castle & has spear & archer guilds & you will be able to produce Lithunanian cavalry later on(they are nearly as good as the polish retainers & cheaper than knights). So first move is to take Prussia with all your units from Poland with your king who will become one of the greatest generals in history & will eventually die. You will have to take Lithiania in the first 3 moves before the Russians get it. Max tax in prussia to create a revolt every turn for the next couple of years & crush them with your king till you get a general rank 2 or above to take over make sure he has no bad morale v&v's as he will be facing hordes. The revolts will be made up of approx 1500 pesants & fanatics. Your king and his unit of RK's will chew these for breakfast example
Battle
Line up your very small army, mine consisted of King, 2 PR's, 1 spear & 1 feudal sergeant with your king in centre. Deploy close to enemy spawn make sure there are no forests around or your cav might be in trouble. Charge the general with your king send spear & FS to protect his flanks & send the 2 PR's on the outer enemy flanks. Your king will kill the general really quick & the whole army will fold, get as many kills/captives as possible as this will increase their valour( I have mountains of screenshots from these battles they are hilarious)
Repeat as many times as you want till the catholic precentage goes to about about 40% after that you will face better troops & worst of all spearman which happen to kill your mighty cav
The revolts also supplemented my income for 10-15 years with most earings from confiscated land 2226Florins
Be careful not to get a revolt in lithunania as it will be made up of better troops. I was lucky & took it in 2 turns without a fight as the rebels where attacking Kiev. But its very important that you get Lithunainia & end the seige as you need another troop producing province that is already semi teched quickly. Do not waste money bribing armies as all the surrounding rebel provinces aren't worth it & its much better to keep tryin to save money for when you need it. Arbalests are needed(must have) for beating the Russians as you will face hordes or horse archers. Stay in forests when he has loads & just have your arbalests returning fire. I haven't bothered even teching up for pasive arbalests as I need more mobility & can't afford to waste 8 years for them in Poland.
Prussia for ships & strategic units
Pomerania for trade, ships & strategic units
Poland for nearly everything especially cathredal as its prerequsite for university as i'm playing GA
Lithunania for all troops types(I got it with spear guild & bowyar guild) & trade
Silsea for nothing it comes with an inn so you could use it for mercs if you are at war with the neighbouring province(mercs have twice the support costs of normal troops). But I chose not to build anything apart from border fort(The HRE might swarm it with hordes of men & only Poland & lithunainia are worth holding.
Volhinya well when I finally did take it I only built a border fort & used this as a trap for the Russians/Turks/Scillians example
I had held if for maybe 10 years & it was 97% christian with 200% loyalty on low taxes. I had one of my usless heirs guarding it by himself. When the Russians/Turks/Sciallians decided to take it I would retreat, put about 10+ spys in it & get a loyalist revolt with some very nice troops & would then take it back off them, repeat
You will need a very good general to hold Lithunania(at the moment mine is rank 9 he got the vice often drunk so he lost 1 command but hes got that back already. Lithunania has been attacked every year for the last 16 years by the Russians. always more than 2 to 1 in their favour but after all this I have made a shambles of the Russian royal line & his top generals all now are cowards, hesitant, good runner, doubtful courage etc
My army consisted of 3 arbalests, 4 FS, 1 halberdier, 2 PR(lol they are valour 8 & still climbing) & my general which is a valour 10 Feudal Sergeant(possibbly the toughest unit I have ever seen in MTW he has actually won massive battles by himself) he also has the vice brave beyond belief & he truly lives up to that.
Finally after all those battles i'm now becoming a power to reckon with. I got livdonia to have a religious revolt that joined my faction & with these troops & the troops from the loyalist revolts I have takin Novorgorond & its citadel from the Russians and at the moment i'm seiging Moscow. Now all I have to do is fight off the Almohad horde that has taken the British Isles & has annillated the Spainish & Aragonese & are in the processs of savaging the french.....oh whats this the turkish are marching on Europe aswell(dam no crusades) I think they will have to meet the Polish hordes well maybe hordes is not the right word, I think dozens is more like it so the Polish dozens are gonna have to tend to a little religious matter in western & south eastern parts of Europe led by 2 perverse humanist rank 9 generals & their unstoppable small armies not even full stacks but all valour 6-7-8 & God is on their side http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Heres some other stuff I have noticed
1. When playing high period camapigns I have never got the invention of gunpowder parchment at year end 1159 or after & I have not been able to build bell foundaries & gunsmith's till very late 1200's early 1300's.......maybe its a bug with the high period campaign & I have not seen it mentioned anywhere.
2. Starting on high period so far for me has been a lot harder/enjoyable than the early period as the AI can give you a better fight with more advanced units & more income. (poor Byzantines not getting constantinople in high period)
3. Don't rely on the mongol invasion to keep the Russians busy for long so that you can backstab the Russians. They normally get thrashed same turn as they arrive but sometimes they do manage to hang on for a while(In my first attempt as the Polish they survived for 15 years , then a few years later the faction respawned LOL I have the pic)
I will hopefully be able to give some more tips in afew days unless I encounter the old CTD problem that has plagued all but one of my camapigns