In defence of handgunners

Like many people I have long regarded these guys as being the poor relation of the mighty arquebusiers and musketeers. The very first gunners you can train, they would appear to be outclassed both by their more advanced cousins and by the existing non-gunpowder archers and crossbows. I had therefore always thought of them as simply a very weak missile unit, one of the least useful units in the game, and ignored them accordingly.


However, in my current Milan game I have come to suspect they are not quite as useless as I had suspected. Specifically, I can identify three big advantages they have over the other gunpowder infantry:

*They do not fire by ranks, which means they are immune from the reforming bug and have a high (for gunners) rate of fire.
*They are well-armoured and can melee, a big plus for spear-and archer-heavy Milan.
*They are much cheaper than the other gunners, especially considering that you must build the very highest level barracks to get musketeers, at around 10000 florins a time.


Their main weakness would appear to be their lack of range, which pretty much makes them ineffective for field battles; against missiles they are outranged, and against melee units they will be charged down before they have time to get off more than one volley. However, I have had some success using them in siege battles as here this disadvantage is largely negated; range is of limited use in the narrow city streets; more important are the abilities to not wither under tower and missile fire, to be able to survive an unintended melee scrap more or less intact, to be able to arrive for the fight in large numbers.


These things considered, handgunners now actually fulfill a unique role in siege battles, as a unit able to make it to the breach intact, deliver a blistering close-range, morale-crushing fusillade against the defenders, and then either assault the breach by itself or support the heavy infantry as they do so. Once through the walls, they remain useful, able to mix with the infantry and keep up a rapid rate of fire in the narrow streets, the only gunpowder unit able to do this without the accursed reforming bug coming into play.


Using these tactics, I have managed to get 100+ kills with a single unit of handgunners in sieges. Anyone else had any luck with these much-maligned units?

To be frank I've never used them with the low range i always chose the bigger ranged units...never taught about those positive attributes you have pointed out...they really seem worth giving another try:idea2:

I used to maybe plank a unit on either flank to weaken the enemy morale before the cavalry charged in. They're safer on the flanks than other gunners because of their armour bonus. I soon learnt not to use them in missile duels.

But now I am Portugal and my special Portguese Arquebusiers are just as tough in melee in the handgunners, so I just stick to them.

You make a good case. I imagine they'd work quite well in siege defences also... it might be worth leaving a unit or two in cities/castles you suspect will be attacked. That is, if you're like me & leave your settlements with a minimal garrison (around 5 units) to invite the AI to actually assault...

In those terms, handgunners seem to belong to the same sub-class of units to which the Byzantine flamethrowers in the Crusades campaign belong: units that are of essentially no use in the open field, but that can prove decisive if properly used in a siege. I've had great luck with those Byz flamethrowers by planting them just behind a breach in my walls, with an infantry unit next to them. When the assaulters get close, out come the flames; when they get closer, they start to tangle with my inf. and get roasted from the back. A unit of handgunners would probably work even better in that role, due to their larger unit size.

Hand Gunners have good missile attacks however their range absolutly sucks, they do however have good melee capabilities if that compensates anything. In contrast Arquebusiers and especially Musketeers have excellent range but weak in melee. As the Milanese I prefer using Genoese Crossbowmen over Hand Gunner anyhow.

Handgunners are the only gunpowder missile troop I use. I might use the musketeers for fun, but the handgunners are great.

I'll expand on some points you made.

The arqubusiers and musketeer missile troops are horrible at melee and because they need a clear line of fire, they are useless once melee begins. That means they only get 2-3 volleys before they need to run behind your line and become useless.

But the handgunners strength is not the guns, but the scare tactics of the guns. You have to fire the guns when the enemy is close and this scares them. So you put them on the front line and order them to fire at the enemy. They fire 1-2 shots and by the time melee starts, most of the enemy is already shaken.

This is interesting actually because I've just begun using handgunners, and I've found them to be excellent shock troops. They can approach an enemy, fire a volley off (which can really affect their morale), and then charge in. When properly armoured, they can outclass other infantry units such as armoured sergeants easily.

I started a campaign as Sicily just so I could make a wee empire (20-30 regions), turtle for a bit, then conquer everywhere with my armies of handgunners:D.

Arquebusiers
Missile attack:14 Range: 120m
Melee attack: 6 Defence:3

Musketeers
Missile attack: 14 Range: 180m
Melee attack: 6 Defence: 3

Hand Gunners
Missile attack: 13 Range:55m
Melee attack: 11 Defence:13

Genoese Crossbowmen
Missile attack:14 Range: 160m
Melee attack: 8 Defence:16

Hand Gunner's range is way shorter compared to the others. But their melee capability is also considerable higher as well.

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Originally Posted by homefry

But the handgunners strength is not the guns, but the scare tactics of the guns. You have to fire the guns when the enemy is close and this scares them. So you put them on the front line and order them to fire at the enemy. They fire 1-2 shots and by the time melee starts, most of the enemy is already shaken.

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Don't all gunpowder units have that effect on the enemy? I'm playing with Milan right now and I put my musketeers up front, if the enemy has no general, usually there's no melee, they'd get within a few steps from the musketeers and rout.

This one army I have relies on that fact, it has 2 culverins and 2 monster ribaults, 4 heavy infantry, one general and 2 genoese crossbow. The rest muskets and pikes.

Are you finding that handgunners scare the enemy more?

A point-blank volley from handgunners is no more or less scary than one from any other gunners, but the things which hamper arqs/muskets from doing this as well are firstly that the handgunners fire faster since they do not fire by rank (a while ago I tried removing the fire_by_rank attribute for muskets, which had the effect of roughly doubling their rate of fire on top of eliminating the reforming bug); and secondly that muskets are far too fragile and expensive to be worth risking geting charged in this way.

Interesting, I'm one of those that had never tried the handgunners. I'll probably give them a try tonight. My thought is, by that time I have more money than I can spend, so I just buy me the highest level unit. I suppose I can place a few handgunners in the middle and muskets on the flanks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lord Fluffy

Don't all gunpowder units have that effect on the enemy? I'm playing with Milan right now and I put my musketeers up front, if the enemy has no general, usually there's no melee, they'd get within a few steps from the musketeers and rout.

This one army I have relies on that fact, it has 2 culverins and 2 monster ribaults, 4 heavy infantry, one general and 2 genoese crossbow. The rest muskets and pikes.

Are you finding that handgunners scare the enemy more?

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They all do, but handgunners are usually closer to the enemy. This scares the enemy much more.

At the distance the handgunner is firing, you would've already pulled back your musketeers to behind your line.


Also, there's gotta be something about having a unit fire guns to scare the enemy and then using the same unit to charge the enemy... could be programming? But when the enemy sees the musketeers running away, the enemy's morale could go back to normal.

I think you need to use them sort of like the ole MTW Naptha thrower / javlin infantries... i.e use them as flankers. on the brighter side they are cetainly at least capable in melee, on the down side though by the time you be running these guys around the army you oppose should have a significant amount of decent cavs more often then not.

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