Fighting with Phalanxes against Phalanxes

Alright, honestly, I thought I was pretty good with phalanxes, because in my Makedonia campaign I haven't lost with them until now. Hell, I even defended Segestica from a stack of Roman elites with a couple of levy phalanxes and some mercs. But until now, I haven't had to fight another real phalanx based army- such as that of the Seleucids, my enemies. I keep re-fighting this half stack of klerouchoi and pantodapoi phalangitai with my newly built army. The reason? Every time one of my Argyraspides or Pezhetairoi, my elites engages one of their lower-quality phalanxes, my men get slaughtered. Invariably. Yes, I do have them all lined up in a row. And I've got them on guard mode (that's good, right?). And I've even got cavalry to hammer the enemy from behind. But before my cavalry get there, half my phalanx is dead and the enemy haven't lost a single man.

I must be doing something wrong. Can someone help me out or give me a few pointers?

My suggestion is to click behind their unit
or well before you reach them right click them once, your men will charge a few yards then pull back into phalanx formation to batter them away. once you've pinned the bastards hit them with your cavalry :duel:

they must have much more experience and a better general... or you haven't put them in Phalanx formation. I really can't think of any other reason to be beaten with such ease.

It's the guard mode that's ausing your men to get slaughtered. You see, while it is good to keep it on against non-phalanx units, it is useless against other phalangites. So if you want to face other phalangites, turn it off. Other factors that may affect your men's performance is your general and the terrain you're fighting on. I try to engage my enemy with my Makedonian armies only on open terrains or if the terrain in rough, I try to provoke them into attacing ME, by besieging a city of theirs for example.

Use mobile troops, preferably with AP weapons such as your Agrinians, to flank the phalanxes.

He's not asking how to defeat them, actually he is asking why his own elites are losing against inferior phalangites. It's a guard mode issue.

Thanks a lot both Maion and Celtic Punk! I'll certainly try what you said. My phalanxes were on guard mode, which I now know is a bad thing against other phalanxes, and I'll definitely try to "move" past them instead of simply engaging them. I think that must have been what happened- that my phalanx broke formation just before engaging the enemy.

ezekiel, I've definitely got them in phalanx mode (I'm not that much of a noob :laugh4:), and the enemy units only have 1 exp. max, although the enemy general does have more command than me, but I doubt that's the problem. And swordmaster, I do have Agranians and Elite Makedonian Peltasts along with my cav to flank them- it's just my phalanxes that are the problem.

Thanks again for all of your responses! :2thumbsup:

Well, I fought that battle again, and for the most part, your strategies worked. There was still the problem of my units taking unusually high casualties, but it was reduced, and the enemy took the same kinds of damage that I did. I outnumbered them decently, (they had a half stack while mine was closer to 3/4. I actually could have beaten them w/o your strategy, but my army would've been decimated) and I wound up with about 20% casualties, which is not bad for my skill, and decent considering I had an inexperienced general. Thanks again for your help!

Balloons for Maion and Celtic Punk: :balloon3: :balloon3:

Are you playing on medium difficulty for battles? Cause hard or very hard will throw casualties off bigtime.

I'm playing on M/M. I can't handle much more, maybe a Hard campaign if I'm lucky, but I don't ever play battles on Hard or higher for the very reason you mentioned. So I know it definitely wasn't the difficulty that skewed the casualties.

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Originally Posted by Chaotix27

I'm playing on M/M. I can't handle much more, maybe a Hard campaign if I'm lucky, but I don't ever play battles on Hard or higher for the very reason you mentioned. So I know it definitely wasn't the difficulty that skewed the casualties.

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I honestly wouldn't know what would be wrong with you. My elite Macedonian phalanxs Pezhetairoi/Argyraspides faced the Seleucids/Ptolemaics elite phalanxes with ease (On guard mode). When I mean with ease, I mean that each pinned the other down. I have a human brain, so I can take advantage of that better (Go Thraikan Podromoi/Podromoi/Agrianikoi/Hyspaspistes/Somatophylakes!)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jolt

I honestly wouldn't know what would be wrong with you. My elite Macedonian phalanxs Pezhetairoi/Argyraspides faced the Seleucids/Ptolemaics elite phalanxes with ease (On guard mode). When I mean with ease, I mean that each pinned the other down. I have a human brain, so I can take advantage of that better (Go Thraikan Podromoi/Podromoi/Agrianikoi/Hyspaspistes/Somatophylakes!)

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I can top that-my Argyraspides (as AS), took out 2 klerouchikon Agema single handedly, and won, losing 10 men (on M level battle, H campaign) and gaining 1 chevron (they were literally silver shielded, chevroned, and armed). they had only 3 prodromoi to help (having been mauled to hell by lonchophoroi heppeis in an ambush, my hetairoi 200 miles away in the area of Gaza (battle was in Egypt). took 20% casualties because of prodromoi mauling.

how did they do that? sheer luck I must confess:embarassed:

Yeah, and somehow, I pretty much see Phalangitai Deuteroi as an Elite unit. They're inexpensive and kicks the ass out of most units I encounter. Except when they're defending walls. Then they suck more than most units.

Could you be attacking uphill? I have found this makes a huge difference. I always use my phalanxes in guard mode but find that whatever phalanx is defending a hill, or even a slight grade, usually wins. I've used phalangatai deuteroi and pantodopai to decimate far more elite phanalanxes using this tactic.

TM

The terrain was rather hilly now that you mention it, although full of small hills instead of a single large one. I can't remember if I was fighting uphill or not for those first few tries, but that could have certainly been the case. Thanks for your advice, TM.