Need Romani vs. Sweboz tips.

i had a Full Stack sweboz army attack mediolanum. I sent a consular army to attack it.
]
I was using the standard recruitment of:
1 Velites

2 hastati

1 Allied infantry (Hastati Samnitici)

2 Principes

1 Triarii

1 Pedites Extrordinarii

I think i also had a Hippeis, and some Equites Romani, oh, and a unit of Peltastai. There may have been some Curoas there too, i'm not exactly sure. It was like 3/4 of a full stack.

Long story short, I was Using the quincunx. I attacked w/the hastati, then the princs, and i used the hastati to fill gaps in the Princs line. The skirmishers also made a good account of themselves before the charge. The hastati and peltastai routed and i resorted to the Triarii and Extrordinarii. i flanked with the cavalry and the General. Eventually the cavalry routed, but i used my general to get the hastati to come back. Then the princs routed and i charged again with the hastati and the general. The hastati routed again and the general's entire bodyguard was killed whereupon i told him to withdraw. They eventually surrounded my triarii, and fought them to the last man and won. :shame:

I need to know how to fight these guys, They had like 5 units of Appea Gaedotos, 3 units of Germanic Swordsman, a unit of Germanic Spearman, 1 unit of Light Germanic cavalry (Ridenz?), a unit of Greman levy spearman, a unit of Germanic Skirmishers and a couple Iosatae.

Should i Change my tactics when i fight the Sweboz? if so, How?

Every other time i have used the Quincunx, say against the Aedui or Qarthadastim, or Epeiros, it worked great. Why not vs. the Sweboz?


oh, and dont worry, they didnt get Medio. After they defeated my consular army, i sent a full stack of Greek/Sardinian auxilia and as soon as i got to the battlefield they turned and ran. They may have defeated my Legion but i took a big chunk out of their warband.

I suggest letting your troops absorb the charge before flanking with idle infantry before repeatedly charging with cavalry. you should bring more missile units and another family member or cavalry. But my advice is probably not the best as I don't have any experience against fighting full stacks of sweboz...

Recruit some German units and give them a taste of their own medicine!
:yes:

last time I played against sweboz their armies were full of levies... <.<

It was fun to rout them all though I lost 600 men...them...1985...

large unit size

Every time I fight Sweboz with the Romans I always send forward a large line of infantry: in the centre pedites extraordinari (better defense), on the wings hastati, second line principes (triarii are in the back and on the end of the wings, ready for entering in any gap if there are are cavalry enemies or too many soldiers that may overrun my men). The first line screens the enemy, the second line divides in two group and attacks the enemy on the flanks and on the rear.
Cavalry may charge from the rear and/or kill retreating enemies. If there are any allied units (often Alpine phalanx or Rhaetic axemen, because I like them) they can support the first line in screening the enemy or can flank them.
On medium difficulty the battle usually ends with a few casualties for me and almost the entire enemy army destroyed.

Hi I've literally just taken all the german provinces west the Sweboz home province. The first time I attacked one of their bases I was shocked by a crushing defeat. Usually I massacre my opponents.

So I switched tactics. The key to destroying them is to not play fair. So I try to not engage them until all my missiles have been used up. This includes pilae. They have weak armour and die easily against missiles. One of their main strengths is that many of their generals are immense. When theyve got one of their amazing generals commanding they fight to the death. SO if you find an opportunity take out their general.

A good Sweboz chomping army would be 4 units of experienced Gallic slingers. All the rest extraordinari except 4 units of polybian equites plus a very good commander with a lot of stars. That should crush any Sweboz army.

I play it with battle difficulty hard btw.

Oh yeah when you are fighting the Sweboz or any close combat armies it is important to have your infantry in nice fat formations lol. Sometimes the computer puts them in long thin formations stretching across much of the battlefield. This not good as the enemy will often break through leading to isolated groups fighting their own mini battles in different parts of the battlefield. When fighting the Sweboz use thick lines of heavy infantry. So my individual infantry units are almost in square formations and I have two or sometimes 3 lines of them. Like you have done before bring in the second of third line in later on if possible as these units will be fresh and will be able to kick a lot more arse than the front line Germans who should be exhausted by that point.

When most of their infantry is engaged bring your cavalry round the side at a comfortable distance. Mop up any archers or slingers that might be lingering if possible. Leave your cavalry at a comfortable distance from the melee and then when the Sweboz infantry are shaken and perhaps one unit running charge in from the middle/back with the now hopefully fresh cavalry and send the whole army fleeing in panic. Voila.

I once had my full stack Camillan legion annihilated by the "Iuvavoeta Defender". I had heaps of infantry yet I coulodn't break them and suffered an Average Defeat, luckily my General survived.

In my Romani games I always ally with the Sweboz early, since I am more concerned about fighting the Aedui and the Arverni and they're our common enemies.

Well, my approach is deffinetly not historically correct but I don't usually stick strictly to historical formations. Here it is:

___Has Pr Pr Tr Tr Pr Pr Has
Ped___S____S___S______Ped_____Cav Gen

Has- Hastati
Pr- Princepes
Tr- Triarii
Ped - Pedites Extra
S - Skirmishers or slingers or archers
Cav- Cavalry
Gen-General

The Pedites are there to make sure my center is not flanked and to flank themselves if they have the opportunity. I have grown confident that a unit of pedites can withstand a strong cavalry charge and fight for a long time against almost all infantry. Enough to hold the flank while my stronger wing outfights the enemy wing. I amass all my cavalry units for stronger charge. If the enemy has some cavalry it is usually positioned on both wings which makes mine superior and after I defeat the wing against my cav. units I am at large to flank or charge at the rear of the enemy. In the case with the Sweboz it is vital to kill the general. Once this is done a charge at the rear or the flank is all that you need to rout their army. If you do not kill him however you will get heavy casualties and you may even lose the battle. And the other guys are right - against sweboz units use more missiles. These bastards hardly have any armor.

I can only emphasize what others have said already, take advantage of their general lack of armor with arrows and pila preferably, bring some additional skirmishers for this, and wait for them to attack you ( unless you consider that an exploit ) so you can exhaust your supply of these before the engagement. Other than that your heavy infantry should do the trick, they are able against most of the unarmored germanic units except for having a weakness against the club-wielding ones.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Matinius Brutus

Well, my approach is deffinetly not historically correct but I don't usually stick strictly to historical formations. Here it is:

___Has Pr Pr Tr Tr Pr Pr Has
Ped___S____S___S______Ped_____Cav Gen

Has- Hastati
Pr- Princepes
Tr- Triarii
Ped - Pedites Extra
S - Skirmishers or slingers or archers
Cav- Cavalry
Gen-General

The Pedites are there to make sure my center is not flanked and to flank themselves if they have the opportunity. I have grown confident that a unit of pedites can withstand a strong cavalry charge and fight for a long time against almost all infantry. Enough to hold the flank while my stronger wing outfights the enemy wing. I amass all my cavalry units for stronger charge. If the enemy has some cavalry it is usually positioned on both wings which makes mine superior and after I defeat the wing against my cav. units I am at large to flank or charge at the rear of the enemy. In the case with the Sweboz it is vital to kill the general. Once this is done a charge at the rear or the flank is all that you need to rout their army. If you do not kill him however you will get heavy casualties and you may even lose the battle. And the other guys are right - against sweboz units use more missiles. These bastards hardly have any armor.

---

There is a reaon that historical formations are used: because they were used historically because they worked. I have the Romani formations done in my manual, click the link in my sig.
From what I can tell, you need bigger armies. what diff are you playing at?

this is what i do to sweboz unit armies (yes i once defeated 4 effin fll stack sweboz armies near iuvovaeta with a full consular army (no allies, all roman)
4 hastati, 4 principle, 3 triarii
2 pedites extroadinarie, 2x neitos, 1 general 2 kretan archers, and 2 mercanies samnites
this is how i played my battles with my knowledge that infantry armies will always do single or double line
formation is this---(note-if on historical campiagn, take out some roman troops for allied ones)

Samnite|----------------Hastiti--------------|Samnite
Neitos-------- Velites --------Neitos
Pedites-|-----------Principles----------| Pedites
|--------triarii----------|
Equites-|------------ Kretan archers---------|Equites Extroadinaries
General
The formation depth is mine (could be swapped around, but i never lost o and i didnt get the CTD lol)

Saminite- 8 Deep- Hastati 4 deep
Neitos behind saminite on the flank 7 deep with velites firing any remaining missles etc
Pedites 8 deep with principles 4-6 deep- when hastati bends into the principles, take them behind the triarii to rest
Trairii 6-8 deep with a little distance between them and principles
Ketran archers Right behind (recommended a lil slight incline so the archers dont kill ur own troops)
and general with calvalry on flanks

Most of the times the infantry engage before my archers could expand all their armmo
so i screen them with my equites and hide my extroadinary nearby
(this will be done 5-15 mins into battle, where the enemy istired)
go RIGHT behind them with some distance
and put the calvaly on their flanks
use 1 with fire and 1 without and MAnually target into a nice lil clump of infnatry
BAM instant 120+ kills
by this time theyll be scared so CHARGE ur calvalry right into them and move them back
(this is where the roman equites dont suck as much as people think they do)
rinse and repeat until they start routing
and charge!! = instant heroic victory
:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by teh1337tim

this is what i do to sweboz unit armies (yes i once defeated 4 effin fll stack sweboz armies near iuvovaeta with a full consular army (no allies, all roman)
4 hastati, 4 principle, 3 triarii
2 pedites extroadinarie, 2x neitos, 1 general 2 kretan archers, and 2 mercanies samnites
this is how i played my battles with my knowledge that infantry armies will always do single or double line
formation is this---(note-if on historical campiagn, take out some roman troops for allied ones)

Samnite|----------------Hastiti--------------|Samnite
Neitos-------- Velites --------Neitos
Pedites-|-----------Principles----------| Pedites
|--------triarii----------|
Equites-|------------ Kretan archers---------|Equites Extroadinaries
General
The formation depth is mine (could be swapped around, but i never lost o and i didnt get the CTD lol)

Saminite- 8 Deep- Hastati 4 deep
Neitos behind saminite on the flank 7 deep with velites firing any remaining missles etc
Pedites 8 deep with principles 4-6 deep- when hastati bends into the principles, take them behind the triarii to rest
Trairii 6-8 deep with a little distance between them and principles
Ketran archers Right behind (recommended a lil slight incline so the archers dont kill ur own troops)
and general with calvalry on flanks

Most of the times the infantry engage before my archers could expand all their armmo
so i screen them with my equites and hide my extroadinary nearby
(this will be done 5-15 mins into battle, where the enemy istired)
go RIGHT behind them with some distance
and put the calvaly on their flanks
use 1 with fire and 1 without and MAnually target into a nice lil clump of infnatry
BAM instant 120+ kills
by this time theyll be scared so CHARGE ur calvalry right into them and move them back
(this is where the roman equites dont suck as much as people think they do)
rinse and repeat until they start routing
and charge!! = instant heroic victory
:D

---

My pre-marian armies consist of:
1Accensi ,
1 Velites/Leves
2 Allied Ranged troops
2 Hastati
2 Allied Light Infantry
2/3 Principes (2 in cammillan, 3 in polybian)
2 Allied Heavy Inf
2Triarii
Pedites Extraordinarii
commander
Tribune
2 Allied Cavalry

Arranged in quincux, with PEx behind the generals, so can act as reserves wherever they're nedded, or after a few battles can be used in the main line to hold it steady. It really does work well, and is reasonably historically accurate. Plus, you can use it in roleplaying by keeping the allied units regional to the location of the Legion, but this is hard until Marian.

Sounds like you did ok, the Roman thing to do would be to use more men.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Sounds like you did ok, the Roman thing to do would be to use more men.

---

If it's not a full stack, then what's the point?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Che Roriniho

There is a reaon that historical formations are used: because they were used historically because they worked. I have the Romani formations done in my manual, click the link in my sig.
From what I can tell, you need bigger armies. what diff are you playing at?

---

I use it because it works, mate! And I use bigger armies than that. This was my mistake in describing my formation- I simplified it. I use much more cavalry, which I know is absolutely ahistorical for the Romans. I play on Medium battle difficulty. Thanks for the manual, though!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Matinius Brutus

I use it because it works, mate! And I use bigger armies than that. This was my mistake in describing my formation- I simplified it. I use much more cavalry, which I know is absolutely ahistorical for the Romans. I play on Medium battle difficulty. Thanks for the manual, though!

---

Hmm, I'm not sure why. I've found infantry to be more useful when playing as the Romans than cavalry. Cavalry doesn't have any consistent staying power and their charge only breaks shaken or wavering lines.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Matinius Brutus

I use it because it works, mate! And I use bigger armies than that. This was my mistake in describing my formation- I simplified it. I use much more cavalry, which I know is absolutely ahistorical for the Romans. I play on Medium battle difficulty. Thanks for the manual, though!

---

you're welcome. I'd reccomend a BIT more infantry, if only to act s the anvil, so your hammer (cavalry) can wipe those useless Germans off the planet.

Oh, and you're more tan wecome for the manual. it's a labout of love. keep watch for new versions!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lonewolf371

Hmm, I'm not sure why. I've found infantry to be more useful when playing as the Romans than cavalry. Cavalry doesn't have any consistent staying power and their charge only breaks shaken or wavering lines.

---

My experience shows that a massive concentrated charge can break steady units. Especially if you can get their General. Which is much easier with overwhelming cavalry. And roman infantry can hold forever until my cavalry dispatches the enemy horsemen and charges at the rear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AlexanderSextus

i had a Full Stack sweboz army attack mediolanum.

---

psh I wish that my sweboz weren't so lazy. In my game they haven't moved an inch since like 270 BC
they have 2 armies outside their starting citiy that have been there for like 50 years