Best/Favourite Missile Unit

Missile units seem to not get as much attention as the melee infantry or melee cavalry units. So anyway, I was just wondering what is the most popular missile unit out there? Do you use missiles at all?

Slingers inflict the most casualties of all missile units with their AP attribute. Foot archers have long range and flaming arrows but usually low attack. Cavalry archers have high mobility, double as light cavalry and have higher attack than most archers but lack the fire arrows. Skirmishers have very little ammunition compared to the slingers and archers but it seems to me that their volleys sometimes (especially when unleashed on a unit that has its back turned to you) kill even more units than a unit of slingers. Some skirmishers are also pretty decent in hand-to-hand fighting. Mounted skirmishers are mobile, but while having the same attack and ammo, these lads are low in number (50 mounted skirmishers vs 120 basic foot skirmisher), which means they also fire fever missiles. Unlike most horse archers who switch to lances after expending their ammunition, the cavalry skirmishers seem to use short swords, which decreases the effectiveness of their charge to almost zero.

Personally, I think the the Balearic Slingers (Qala'im Balearim) are the strongest missile unit in the game. They have 4 missile attack with the AP attribute and unlike Accensi, they get +1 missile attack with each level of experience (Accensi get their attack raised only after the second experience chevron and only then do they get +1 attack with each chevron). Balearics are the only missile unit that can actually damage a heavily armoured elite unit significantly. As for the weaker unarmoured units, the Balearics simply slaughter them. I have taken more towns (on 1:1 strength ratio) than I can count by using a stack that was 50% slinger and sustaining only 1 or 2% casualties due to the fact that my missile fire had decimated 70%+ of the enemy units.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...ic_slinger.gif

The Skuda Baexdzhyntae (Scythian Riders) are my favourite HA unit. I am playing as the Romani and they are so far the best of their type that I have stumbled upon. They have 6 attack, excellent stamina and speed, as well as AP, 3 attack lance.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...exdzhyntae.gif

As for normal archers, I have little use for them. I usually have one or two of these fella's for fire arrows. When I can, I recruit the notoriously famous Cretans, but it really doesn't make much difference to me.

peltasts, they're everywhere. and they're useful even after they use up their javalin.

I'm partial to:
Subeshi Archers-unarmored, awesome range, limited AoR
Syrian Archers-armored, good attack, limited but centrally located AoR
Cretan Archers-armored, good attack, decent melee, very limited AoR
Indian Archers- unarmored, decent attack, decent range, AP melee weapon, limited AoR on the fringe of the map

Peltastai- great AoR, decent missile, good melee
Rhodian Slingers- great range, very limited AoR, haven't used them much, but I'm pretty happy with 'em, best slinger on the Eastern half of the map (haven't really played on the west side yet)

Yuezhi Horse Archers- unarmored, standard missile attack, extremely long range, very limited AoR

Balearic are real good, but there is one thing that kills them for me, their range. At 151, it's the 3rd lowest next to Iaosatae *148* and Accensi. *133.2* I'm not sure if it really was that low*was that really their max range?* since everyone says they were the very best in the world. So I bumped them up to 180 in mine, the same as greek/eastern slingers.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...n_slingers.gif
The best imho are the Rhodian Slingers. Highest range of all non-artillery missile units, same attack as Balearics, and some armour and shield so they can take some return fire.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...aka_riders.gif
Horse Archers are all more of less equal, I guess my favorite not-cataphract would be these guys, the Saka Riders. Actually have some armour and a shield, wide recruitment, decent enough in meele, and higher range then most other HA.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...red_nobles.gif
Like normal HA, cata-HA are all pretty much equal in the fact they will destroy everything in their path. That said, I like the Saka Armoured Nobles.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...ot-archers.gif
While Kretans have better stats, these are my favorite and the best imho. 2nd best range of archers, good attack and a cool skin. But what makes them the best for me is that the Saka can recruit them in any and all provinces. That's to put it mildly quite handy. Yes I'm a big Saka fan, what can I say?



As for skirmishers, I really don't use these guys at all in my army. In almost all non pikemen based infantry armies, most infantry carry javelins so they don't seem needed other then in the very beginning. As for cavalry skirmishers, I've only used a few of these in large enough numbers to say, but my vote has to go to the Leuce Epos. Fast moving, Very good stamina, plenty of javelins, good in meele, wide recruitment, good armour and total defense. What more can a man ask for?
https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u..._leuceepos.gif

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MerlinusCDXX

I'm partial to:
Subeshi Archers-unarmored, awesome range, limited AoR
Syrian Archers-armored, good attack, limited but centrally located AoR
Cretan Archers-armored, good attack, decent melee, very limited AoR
Indian Archers- unarmored, decent attack, decent range, AP melee weapon, limited AoR on the fringe

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Of these four foot archers you mentioned here, it is not the Subeshi, but the Cretan who has the best range value with 201.6, while Indians have the worst range with a lousy 170.

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Originally Posted by Fondor_Yards

While Kretans have better stats, these are my favorite and the best imho. 2nd best range of archers, good attack and a cool skin. But what makes them the best for me is that the Saka can recruit them in any and all provinces. That's to put it mildly quite handy. Yes I'm a big Saka fan, what can I say?

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Second best range? Pray tell, what archer unit does have better range than Saka Foot Archers? I don't know one.

I'm less impressed with Rhodians, for all that they have armour, they still seem to suffer badly under missile fire from other slingers. I don't know if they fight in a tighter formation than other slingers, which might make them more vulnerable, but after a few battles with them losing a lot of men, I went back to Sphendenotai and Iaosatae.

I do agree Balearics are the best, though. Great for annihilating enemy skirmishers/missile troops and then turning their focus on enemy FMs.

I don't rate any archers, simply because lacking the AP attribute that slingers have makes them useless against anyone with armour. I've watched the AI expend all it's ammo and kill a handful of my main strength. I tend to focus my missiles on lightly- or unarmoured troops anyway, but it's nice to be able to get my slingers behind the enemy's line infantry and decimate them with my remaining ammo.

Only reason I use archers is for variety and historicity in my Pergamon game; all-slinger would make it too easy.

Well my top 3 archers would have to be,
Kretan Archers
Skythian Foot Archers
Caucasian Archers (absolutely indepensible in a Hayasdan capaign)

toxotai kretikoi/syriakoi. I use them as my skirmish/light inf troops. Great for killing all those pesky skirmishers and can double as capable light infantry for flanking. Multi purpose units like them are good for saving unitslots for other units.

Depends on how you use the missile unit. For my playing style, the Balearic Slinger is not appropriate due to low range and - even more important - low ammunition. I prefer celtic slingers by far, missile 2 or 4 does not matter much for armour penetration imo.

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Originally Posted by Tollheit

Second best range? Pray tell, what archer unit does have better range than Saka Foot Archers? I don't know one.

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Ah my bad, they do have the best range of archers.

cretan archers!!!
true it has limited AOR
BUT the MERC units u can recruit basically anywhere in greece, roma area
(around rome, ariminum taras)
what i also found is that
merc cretan archers have better armor and attack +1 to the regular one,
hell u should c me in my roman campaign
all cretans w/ gold chhevrons , barbarian horde w/out armor ftw :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by schlappi

Depends on how you use the missile unit. For my playing style, the Balearic Slinger is not appropriate due to low range and - even more important - low ammunition. I prefer celtic slingers by far, missile 2 or 4 does not matter much for armour penetration imo.

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You're right in most respects. I have checked the stats and it is true that Iaosatae have more range and ammunition (190 and 30 respectively) versus the Balearic 165 and 20. Iaosatae are also cheaper, have less upkeep and are available in almost all of Europe with the exception of Southern Balkans, Iberia and the far Eastern Europe.

However, I do not share your view on the missile attacks of the two units, if that was what you were trying to say. Balearics have 4 missile attack, while Iaosatae have the usual two. Balearic Slingers are two times more deadly. This is not just some silly stats. I have a legion that contains Accensi, Iaosatae and Balearics all together. Accensi are dirt cheap (504 mnai) have probably the lowest upkeep of any Romani units (126) but their ammunition (25) and range (160) is inferior to the Iaosatae. Accensi also have lower attack (EDU says they have 1 attack; it takes two chevrons to raise their attack to 3 at the first time [after this the Accensi level up normally]).

These stats have a direct effect on the performance of the units. Balearics always kill the most enemy soldiers, despite their lower ammo (they usually kill twice more soldiers than Iaosatae). Iaosatae follow up and the Accensi usually claim the lowest amount of kills. Rhodian slingers are actually better than Balearics in terms of ammunition (25) as well as armour, but have slightly lower range (162) and are recruitable only in Rhodes, while Balearics are available as mercenaries all over the Mediterranean shores of Spain as well as at the Balearic Islands themselves, where they can also be trained.

Aemilius, your stats are wrong. Check the EDU file for correct stats.

Here is the EDU entry for Rhodian Slingers, the range is bolded and underlined


540
type hellenistic missile rhodian slingers
dictionary hellenistic_missile_rhodian_slingers ; Rhodian Slingers
category infantry
class missile
voice_type General_1
soldier african_missile_african_iberian_rhodian_slingers, 30, 0, 0.85
mount_effect horse -2, chariot +2, elephant +1
attributes sea_faring, hide_improved_forest, can_sap, very_hardy, hide_long_grass
formation 2.8, 3.5, 3.4, 4.8, 5, square
stat_health 1, 1
stat_pri 4, 0, bullet, 224, 30, missile, archery, blunt, none, 15 ,1
stat_pri_attr ap
stat_sec 9, 0, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, knife, 0 ,0.04
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 4, 9, 2, leather
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 1
stat_ground 0, 0, 2, -1
stat_mental 11, normal, untrained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 990, 248, 40, 60, 990
ownership macedon, thrace, greek_cities, seleucid, numidia, romans_julii, romans_scipii, carthage, dacia

I prefer to get subeshi achers, toxotai syriakoi, or toxotai kretikoi. they all have great range, good attack (for archers), and are comparatively devastating (compared to what I normally use: toxotai, thanvare payahdag, etc.); in fact, of all of them, subeshi are the most preferred, and rarest archers you can get as A.seleukeia. probably because of the fact that they are monsters vs. other archer (irrespective of rnge)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MerlinusCDXX

Here is the EDU entry for Rhodian Slingers, the range is bolded and underlined


540
type hellenistic missile rhodian slingers
dictionary hellenistic_missile_rhodian_slingers ; Rhodian Slingers
category infantry
class missile
voice_type General_1
soldier african_missile_african_iberian_rhodian_slingers, 30, 0, 0.85
mount_effect horse -2, chariot +2, elephant +1
attributes sea_faring, hide_improved_forest, can_sap, very_hardy, hide_long_grass
formation 2.8, 3.5, 3.4, 4.8, 5, square
stat_health 1, 1
stat_pri 4, 0, bullet, 224, 30, missile, archery, blunt, none, 15 ,1
stat_pri_attr ap
stat_sec 9, 0, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, knife, 0 ,0.04
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 4, 9, 2, leather
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 1
stat_ground 0, 0, 2, -1
stat_mental 11, normal, untrained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 990, 248, 40, 60, 990
ownership macedon, thrace, greek_cities, seleucid, numidia, romans_julii, romans_scipii, carthage, dacia

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That's funny. I was looking at this:
;542
type iberian missile slingers
dictionary iberian_missile_slingers ; Iberian Slingers
category infantry
class missile
voice_type Medium_1
soldier african_missile_african_iberian_rhodian_slingers, 30, 0, 0.85
mount_effect horse -2, chariot +2, elephant +1
attributes sea_faring, hide_improved_forest, can_sap, very_hardy, hide_long_grass
formation 2.8, 3.5, 3.4, 4.8, 5, square
stat_health 1, 1
stat_pri 2, 0, stone, 162.8, 25, missile, archery, blunt, none, 15 ,1
stat_pri_attr ap
stat_sec 7, 0, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, knife, 0 ,0.04
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 1, 6, 2, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 1
stat_ground 0, 0, 2, 0
stat_mental 8, low, untrained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 532, 133, 40, 60, 532
ownership spain, egypt, slave, britons, gauls, scythia, germans

I was using Ctrl+F in EDU and stumbled upon this abovementioned unit, which I though to be the Rhodian Slingers . That's where I got my 162 range and 25 ammunition from (no I did NOT think that the Rhodians had only 2 attack). I just checked the EDU, and found the real Rhodian Slingers that MerlinusCDXX was talking about. Then what in the world is the real name of the abovenmentioned unit?!? I don't think there are any Iberian slingers in EB.

Trokalobutiam?

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...an_archers.gif
Syrian Archers for the east, they have a good combination of armour, range and melee ability.


https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...an_archers.gif
Cretan Archers for the west, they fare better in melee, but have a lower armour to my knowledge.


https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...n_slingers.gif
Rhodian Slinger, again the combination of the Syrians: Good armour and range.

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Originally Posted by Centurio Nixalsverdrus

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...an_archers.gif
Syrian Archers, they have a good combination of armour, range and melee ability. Cretans are better in melee, but have a lower armour I think.

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Syrian Archers? Don't they have only 4 missile attack? The purpose of an archer is first and foremost to provide strong missile support and Syrian archers don't have enough attack to effectively do that. Syrian archers are one of the weaker missile units in EB. As for their armour and melee capabilities (which are pretty high for an archer unit), you don't actually throw them into melee, do you? that would seem like a waste of talent to me. There is infantry for that.

In my opinion, they are underrated and the EB team should have given them 5 missile attack.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aemilius Paulus

That's funny.

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Your ranges for Iaosatae, Balearics and Accensi are all wrong, as well. Quite peculiar, as Fondor_Yards had already listed the correct values for all three of them in this very thread.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tollheit

Your ranges for Iaosatae, Balearics and Accensi are all wrong, as well. Quite peculiar, as Fondor_Yards had already listed the correct values for all three of them in this very thread.

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Darn! I get what I deserve for using the Online EB units list as a primary source!

Cretan archers kick ass. period

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aemilius Paulus

Syrian Archers? Don't they have only 4 missile attack? The purpose of an archer is first and foremost to provide strong missile support and Syrian archers don't have enough attack to effectively do that. Syrian archers are one of the weaker missile units in EB. As for their armour and melee capabilities (which are pretty high for an archer unit), you don't actually throw them into melee, do you? that would seem like a waste of talent to me. There is infantry for that.

In my opinion, they are underrated and the EB team should have given them 5 missile attack.

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I agree, otherwise what's their real usefulness? (especially at their recruit price, which is comparable to the Kretikoi Toxotai)...but you could always change your EDU to give them 5 attack- just make sure you use a text editor like notepad++ (NOT windows notepad, it somehow messes up the formatting and causes CTDs)

Though I've been using them as they are and have had decent results with them, not great but not horrible. Their good armor helps them to survive archer duels, especially against horse archers, which is where they really shine if you're playing the AS (next time you play an AS campaign, try taking a few units out East with your army when you go fight the Pahlavans, you'll see a real difference).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MerlinusCDXX

I agree, otherwise what's their real usefulness? (especially at their recruit price, which is comparable to the Kretikoi Toxotai)...but you could always change your EDU to give them 5 attack- just make sure you use a text editor like notepad++ (NOT windows notepad, it somehow messes up the formatting and causes CTDs)

Though I've been using them as they are and have had decent results with them, not great but not horrible. Their good armor helps them to survive archer duels, especially against horse archers, which is where they really shine if you're playing the AS (next time you play an AS campaign, try taking a few units out East with your army when you go fight the Pahlavans, you'll see a real difference).

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already took them out east..they ROCK!!!:beam:

well, the heavy armor does its work.:yes:

1.Cretan Archers-long range, good armour, excellent attack.
2.Subeshi Archers-same as above.
3.Pelatasai-easy to hire, cheap and versatile.
4.Balearic Slingers-excellent attack and decent ammo.

I'm surprised only one person mentioned the Caucasian Archers. They have 6 missile attack, which is the same as the Cretans and are much cheaper, not mention that the Caucasian Archers have 40/80/160 men as well as a wider recruitment pool. However, the Cretans do have higher armour.

I think it's because Caucasian Archers have the worst range of the Eastern archers. They aren't bad or anything but considering better archers are never far away.

I love the Cretan Archers. I powergame so conquering crete to get to these guys is always a priority before I head over to the East.... also, can anyone tell me how Imperial Archers compare to the rest? As in, having used them?