By God, this is the last straw!

I don't care if it is not important!
I'm sick of these pigs selling away my damned country!
Kill 'em, bloody send them to Pakistan! I don't bloody care! Gordon Brown should be shot in the street! Mandlseon hanged! If the Tories are no better, bloody shoot them!

I am sick and bloody tired of politicians treating my homeland like a hole, I demand anyone residning in the UK to do their utmost to protests against this outrage and so many others before, god first they wanted to destroy the home of the first computer and now this, plus many others.

You know, I actually now believe it when old geezers say the country is going to the damned dogs, no one gives a bloody toss. The commons must be got rid of, along with the rest of the bloody Westminster farce:furious3:

Scoundrels!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...-3bn-deal.html

For-profit mail? Good luck with that.

From the article....Lord Mandelson, the Business Secretary...that says it all .

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

From the article....Lord Mandelson, the Business Secretary...that says it all .

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Yeah, pretty bloody much!

Smoke and mirrors! Blow and bollocks! That man should be banished from the realm!
I wonder which German mailman Mandy is in bed with?
I hope Labour are destroyed after the next election.

Because they sold 1/3 of the Royal Post??? Why's that such a big deal?

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Originally Posted by Sarmatian

Because they sold 1/3 of the Royal Post??? Why's that such a big deal?

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The Royal Post is a public institution paid for by public money. Selling off a third of it means that those who buy the one third stake will be gaining money from a public institution... for no good reason... Once something becomes privatised it will only serve the interest of its shareholders, not the wider society - which is clearly undesirable when it comes to something this crucial.

Oh and how could I forget that the entire institution has been built through taxpayer dollars meaning that the infrastructure is already in place. Hence while these people profit off the Royal post, the taxpayers have put in the hard yards already.

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Originally Posted by CountArach

Once something becomes privatised it will only serve the interest of its shareholders, not the wider society - which is clearly undesirable when it comes to something this crucial.

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Sounds like another hair-brained privatisation scheme with no guarantees of genuine competition and no benefits to the public.

We've seen this in The Neds where TNT took over. My mail is now delivered by a 16-year-old incompetent on a bike, usually to a guy three blocks removed who happens to have the same name as me. And if I want to file a complaint, I am connected to a 'call center' where other 16-year-old incompetents work the phones. Oh, and it's become more expensive than ever to send a package and no one can explain why that is. Apparently the TNT managers have decided that package mail is an inelastic demand and they can charge whatever the hell they like. It sure is. Granny is going to send that home-knitted sweater to her grandchild anyway.

For 15 euros... :shame:

Never had a problem with TNT, reliable & cheap. 15 euro for a sweater? Where you sending it the moon?

Oh and how could I forget that the entire institution has been built through taxpayer dollars meaning that the infrastructure is already in place. Hence while these people profit off the Royal post, the taxpayers have put in the hard yards already.

Agreed.

Sounds like what happened when we privatized our electrical industry here... In the past, we had cheap electricity, and there was never any talk of shortages. Now, however, our electrical bills have tripled or more, and there are shortages every bloody winter.

It *might* have something to do with the new private owners trying to squeeze every penny out of their customers... And as an added bonus, our heating systems are mostly based on electricity, because we used to have a lot of clean and cheap hydropower. Now we're switching to burning gas, oil and wood, with some half-arsed attempts to subsidize "green" electricity... What, like the thing we used before? :idea2:

Our postage sector is well underway for privatization too. It's already suffering because of rationalization and tax cuts with following budget cuts, I can't wait for the days when some schmuck decides to sell it off to owners who want profit from it. I'll probably have to drive to the capital and pick it up myself.

ohh privatisation.... great, expect service to drop... prices to go up.... and then in a few years the goverment will slowly start giving this money back to the company in subsidies.... its a lose lose as far as im concerned

Postal service is something i think should remain a public service rather than a for profit one..... looks like that dutch company TNT is going to get it... 15 euro's did you say ? i suppose at least that will discourage the sending of crappy clothes from well meaning older relatives, just send the money it'll be cheaper for you :D

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Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly

ohh privatisation.... great, expect service to drop... prices to go up.... and then in a few years the goverment will slowly start giving this money back to the company in subsidies....

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When it's done the wrong way, that is making being semi-public where companies have to work with a fixed price, how much do you pay for calling someone on your cellphone nowadays?

Sounds like the UK will need some mail enhancement medications...at least for the private parts. :eyebrows:

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Originally Posted by Bopa the Magyar

I don't care if it is not important!
I'm sick of these pigs selling away my damned country!
Kill 'em, bloody send them to Pakistan! I don't bloody care! Gordon Brown should be shot in the street! Mandlseon hanged! If the Tories are no better, bloody shoot them!

I am sick and bloody tired of politicians treating my homeland like a hole, I demand anyone residning in the UK to do their utmost to protests against this outrage and so many others before, god first they wanted to destroy the home of the first computer and now this, plus many others.

You know, I actually now believe it when old geezers say the country is going to the damned dogs, no one gives a bloody toss. The commons must be got rid of, along with the rest of the bloody Westminster farce:furious3:

Scoundrels!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...-3bn-deal.html

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:laugh4: at the outrage!

:daisy: disgrace.

In fact I am so :daisy: off about this I might go to my local MP's office and burn my useless :daisy: Labour card in her useless :daisy: face.

I am fuming, bad times ahead.

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Originally Posted by JAG

:daisy: disgrace.

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Another brilliant analysis of privatization. :yes:

It's not a proper sale - the government takes all responsibility for the pension deficit - running at £7 BILLION and then sells off part of the rest for something to look good on the balance sheet.

I'm sure it's not the most efficient service, and IMO if it is to be privitised it should be done as BT was with strict rules to ensure no loss of service (although in BT's case their phone boxes are fnally being reduced) - the company makes savings from efficiency and not just from loosing the debt burden / ruining services.

~:smoking:

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Originally Posted by Adrian II

We've seen this in The Neds where TNT took over. My mail is now delivered by a 16-year-old incompetent on a bike, usually to a guy three blocks removed who happens to have the same name as me. And if I want to file a complaint, I am connected to a 'call center' where other 16-year-old incompetents work the phones. Oh, and it's become more expensive than ever to send a package and no one can explain why that is. Apparently the TNT managers have decided that package mail is an inelastic demand and they can charge whatever the hell they like. It sure is. Granny is going to send that home-knitted sweater to her grandchild anyway.

For 15 euros... :shame:

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Sounds exactly like what happened to De Post when it got privatised for 49 %.

Not to mention the privatisation of Electrabel. Free market? Yeah right. A de facto monopoly position and prices of electricy and gas are absurdly high.

Idem dito with Belgacom, formerly RTT, Belgian phone company.

Once they privatise public transport, the end will be nigh.

Bloody politicians, bah, they can take their free market and shove it where the sun never shines.

Wait......You get free school but you have to pay for mail? Ya'll are doing this backwards.

The main point is that only 1/3 was sold, so it's still in control of whoever was in control before. Fresh capital just might improve the services. No reason to get angry about it...

I have the feeling that it's mostly because it's Royal Post. If it were Mike's Courier or Joe's Parcels and Letters Service, no one would care...

Capital isn't the issue.

Issues are increasing the automation of post and fewer, larger sorting offices. Selling 1/3 and then changing nothing is merely a way of making the balance sheet of the country look better today.

~:smoking:

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Originally Posted by Strike For The South

Wait......You get free school but you have to pay for mail? Ya'll are doing this backwards.

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There is no free lunch, Strike.

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Originally Posted by Kush

There is no free lunch, Strike.

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Sure there is. You just have to make sure nobody notices you taking it. :smartass2:

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Originally Posted by Sarmatian

The main point is that only 1/3 was sold, so it's still in control of whoever was in control before. Fresh capital just might improve the services. No reason to get angry about it...

I have the feeling that it's mostly because it's Royal Post. If it were Mike's Courier or Joe's Parcels and Letters Service, no one would care...

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Royal, bloody, Mail, the oldest postal service in the world is being flogged off in the most incompitent fashion. Whats more, they swore they would not do it, not even The Iron Lady dared to, this Mandleson :daisy: thinks he is god.

Fresh capital? Improvement! What the hell? Do even know what happens when a public service is privatised? Clearly you do not. There is no competition really is there? These :daisy: called shareholders (who make large sums of money by doing piss all) will do everything in their power to ruin a national institution.

I have every reason to be angry at a known criminal! And one in government at that.

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Originally Posted by Sarmatian

The main point is that only 1/3 was sold, so it's still in control of whoever was in control before. Fresh capital just might improve the services. No reason to get angry about it...

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Fresh capital? That's the reason a private company sells off some stock... Government owned companies have access to the biggest source of income in the nation, the treasury. There's no need to sell stuff off to get money, unless the country in question is doing seriously bad and desperately needs some quick cash. I honestly can't say Britain is in that situation... This is idealism, nothing else. Market libby idealism.

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Originally Posted by Bopa the Magyar

this Mandleson :daisy: thinks he is god.

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The man literally has no shame, so this latest turn of events is depressing but not surprising.

What I am still scratching my head about is how a man who is almost universally unpopular and with a known record of incompetence and corruption still managed to worm his way back into power despite having been twice previously forced to resign in disgrace.

Regarding the privatisation itself; although I can see the argument that the free market can be more efficient and deliver a better service than a state-owned entity, the fact is that every major privatisation of a public service in my lifetime has resulted in a sharp drop in service and all manner of scandals and dirty dealings. I honestly don't know whether this is simply due to the government consistently favouring their cronies every time there is such a selloff, or if there are just some areas which are simply to conducive to price fixing and profiteering for a free market to function properly.

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Originally Posted by Bopa the Magyar

Royal, bloody, Mail, the oldest postal service in the world is being flogged off in the most incompitent fashion. Whats more, they swore they would not do it, not even The Iron Lady dared to, this Mandleson :daisy: thinks he is god.

Fresh capital? Improvement! What the hell? Do even know what happens when a public service is privatised? Clearly you do not. There is no competition really is there? These :daisy: called shareholders (who make large sums of money by doing piss all) will do everything in their power to ruin a national institution.

I have every reason to be angry at a known criminal! And one in government at that.

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Bah. As a customer I'm interested only how good is the service and how much money it costs. Whether it's owned by bunch of corrupt and morally bankrupt politicians or a bunch of corrupt and morally bankrupt businessmen - not really important. I agree that in certain areas government should always have a final say and I'd understand your point of view if they'd tried to sell of 2/3, but since they're in control of more than 51%, I see no reason for such an outburst.

If I'm not mistaken, postal services are private in the US. I've never had any problem with postal services there. Quick, cheap and efficient...

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Fresh capital? That's the reason a private company sells off some stock... Government owned companies have access to the biggest source of income in the nation, the treasury. There's no need to sell stuff off to get money, unless the country in question is doing seriously bad and desperately needs some quick cash. I honestly can't say Britain is in that situation... This is idealism, nothing else. Market libby idealism.

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You obviously have a wrong idea how it works. Treasury is not some room where huge piles of money are stored. It's not like prime minister can tell the janitor: "Hey, bring me a couple of billions from the treasury, we need to invest in postal system!". No, every penny has it's purpose. It's a time of relative big economic crisis, British budget certainly felt it. Hell, only that 2.5% (or whatever) VAT cut means billions and billions less revenue for the state. Post probably needed some investment, and they decided that instead of taking away more money from an already tight and strained budget, they get that capital from abroad. It's only 1/3, so the state is still fully in control. And I'd be surprised if Royal Post brought some huge revenues to the state.

I admit I'm not familiar with this particular deal, but I sincerely doubt that someone from the government decided to sell of 33% of the Royal Post just for the fun of it...

Discussing whether that money was needed, how much (if any) revenues the state would lose long term because of it, will the service be improved etc... is ok. But instead of it, it's all about: "Hey, it's Royal Post. You know, I mean Royal Post. Like, Royal Post."

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Originally Posted by Sarmatian

I've never had any problem with postal services there. Quick, cheap and efficient...

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Indeed it is:

"The United States Postal Service (USPS) is an independent agency of the United States government (see 39 U.S.C. § 201) responsible for providing postal service in the United States."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Postal_Service

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Originally Posted by Sarmatian

You obviously have a wrong idea how it works. Treasury is not some room where huge piles of money are stored. It's not like prime minister can tell the janitor: "Hey, bring me a couple of billions from the treasury, we need to invest in postal system!". No, every penny has it's purpose. It's a time of relative big economic crisis, British budget certainly felt it. Hell, only that 2.5% (or whatever) VAT cut means billions and billions less revenue for the state. Post probably needed some investment, and they decided that instead of taking away more money from an already tight and strained budget, they get that capital from abroad. It's only 1/3, so the state is still fully in control. And I'd be surprised if Royal Post brought some huge revenues to the state.

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BAH! We're talking about the bloody UK here, not some tiny pacific island. They've got the cash. As I said, for a government to start selling off stuff, they'd have to be in deep :daisy: . The UK isn't even close. The postal service needs a billion or two for infrastructure, you say? Well then, the answer is easy; borrow some money(like states do all the freakin' time), take some from some other place, dig into the treasury reserve, etc etc. The UK isn't in the position where it has to sell stuff to caugh up some cash.

But, no, nobody is doing this "for fun". They're doing it for ideological reasons. Idealists. It has nothing to do with the real world, just like every other idiot privatization out there.

Note that I'm not criticizing privatization in general, I'm criticizing unnecessary privatization. For some people, privatization isn't a means to an end, it's the ultimate goal itself. Bad things happen when those people enter the real world, as there are a bunch of businesses who are much better of in state hands.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Indeed it is:

"The United States Postal Service (USPS) is an independent agency of the United States government...

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So are Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and Ginnie Mae -- do not assume that "independent agency of the United States government" is anything resembling a panacea.

Even when semi-privatized, the USPS retained a monopoly on 1 oz. "first class" mail. FEDEX and others were competing for everything else. The USPS service is the same, or slower but costs slightly less than FEDEX or DHL....but for some reason they keep raising the price of stamps on their monopolized service FASTER than any other analogous service.

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Originally Posted by Sam Ryan, Orlando Sentinel, 5-8-2005

Consider this: In 1984, the year Ma Bell was broken up, the average long-distance phone call cost 28 cents per minute. Meanwhile, a first-class stamp cost 20 cents. Today, the average long-distance telephone rate has plummeted to 11 cents, while stamps have soared to 37 cents. If telephone prices had risen with inflation like stamps, a long-distance call today would cost a whopping 51 cents per minute

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.

Today, that LD call is under $05/minute, but the stamp is $0.42 and going to $0.43 in May.


You can make arguments that government can provide services no other provider could or that government can apportion a resource or service more equitably (I'd argue that, but it is at least a valid argument), but do NOT assume that cost and efficiency are hallmarks of goverment control. The best to hope for with government is that it's "break-even" compared to the private sector.

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Bah. As a customer I'm interested only how good is the service and how much money it costs.

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And as in this case if you were in Britain you wouldn't just be a customer , you through taxes would be the financier .
How happy would you be to have the profitable interests taken from you for a pittance while you retained the non-profitable parts and all accumulated and future debts ?