Protective walls... or not

So there is this nice feature of protective walls our troops can hide behind. And I must say I like that. Troops behind walls are unpleasantly hard to kill with ranged weapons. Even cannons have a very hard time getting at them, which is perhaps well accurate but good for gameplay.

But, and there always is a but, they don't always work. Something like 50% of the time the troops just sit there and never shoot. And this affects both player and AI troops. Once in a while a single man will pop up and shoot once. Great... Sometimes walls are a central part of a defensive position, sometimes you are even forced to use them as they would otherwise mess up your position (artillery etc). For them then to not allow the troops to shoot is more than slightly annoying. Especially if said troops are ranged specialists like Jägers or other light infantry.

I have noticed that at times it can help to use the Halt function, it seems to redress the formation and sometimes they will fire off a volley. But other times it just doesn't do anything.

Does anyone know exactly what it is that factors in? Is it a specific direction or lay of the land? And is there anything you can do about it that works?

I have also noticed that when the troops fire behind walls they do so as if they were back to basics. One line fires and reloads, then fire again etc. No passing of the muskets which is a logical thing to do (no need for an animation just speeded up reloading would be more than acceptable), and no changing the lines either (in case the previous is impossible).

So when it works it is actually pretty low on damage.

Oh and a small irritating thing. If your Grenadiers shoot themselves out of ammo, they no longer have any grenades, despite the fact that you can click on the Use Grenades button, which they then try but nothing ever happens.

Lol. Walls kinda blow. I rather line my troops up in such a way that the enemy will have to jump the fence and get shot to ribbons in the process. However, you can also just line them up behind walls without using the cover command, they still block fire below the waist.

I think that a lot of the times the unwillingness to shoot is caused by one guy getting stuck somewhere or the grade of the terrain.

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Originally Posted by antisocialmunky

I think that a lot of the times the unwillingness to shoot is caused by one guy getting stuck somewhere or the grade of the terrain.

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There are many pathing issues such as this that I find hard to believe were not known before release.

Another is the simply pathetic pursuit abilities of cavalry against routing infantry. I thought M2TW was bad -but ETW is worse. When the "Victory - end battle/continue" screen comes up I always click OK as it is just too aggravating to waste my time trying to get a unit of 40 cav. to hunt down about 20 routing inf. successfully.

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Originally Posted by Kraxis

Oh and a small irritating thing. If your Grenadiers shoot themselves out of ammo, they no longer have any grenades, despite the fact that you can click on the Use Grenades button, which they then try but nothing ever happens.

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Yet another missed detail. There are so many.

From a gameplay perspective, this is the second biggest issue that needs to be addressed, in my opinion, after getting a modicum of naval transportation by the AI. Troops shouldn't be getting "stuck" behind a wall.

I stopped using this feature because troops hiding behind walls basically are out of combat. I also hate the way cavalry has pathfinding issues when jumping over walls - there's always several units getting stuck or lost or whatever. But I very much enjoy the way artillery just goes through the walls with no problem. That's the spirit, boys, don't let anything stop you :laugh4:

I second that: this should be fixed... the walls and, of course, the current AI naval passivity.

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Originally Posted by Vlad Tzepes

I stopped using this feature because troops hiding behind walls basically are out of combat. I also hate the way cavalry has pathfinding issues when jumping over walls - there's always several units getting stuck or lost or whatever. But I very much enjoy the way artillery just goes through the walls with no problem. That's the spirit, boys, don't let anything stop you :laugh4:

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I was rather dissapointed they didnt do something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32s4qCCFnmk

But I guess if they aren't about to give factions visual distinctions outside of color, they aren't about to do something as complex as guys hauling cannons over a wall.

I find that you just have to be careful with ordering units over walls. It seems you ahve to hit it at aobut a 90 degree angle or it all goes to hell.

Obviously I try not to use the walls any longer, but the fact remains that sometimes they are just horribly in the way. And when they work they are pretty nice. Though I still think a unit behind a wall should have a speeded up reloading to simulate the passing of muskets to the front men, even at low tech.

Attacking a wall was often a recipie for disaster due to the defender having such impressive advantages. Especially if the defenders are light infantry with superior arms, range, accuracy and reloading. Jägers behind a wall would be nasty.

Horses attacking infantry from behind walls is hilariously effective while horses jumping into hte middle of your huddled masses seem to really ruin hteir day(I can only guess people get jumped on by horses).

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Originally Posted by Kraxis

Oh and a small irritating thing. If your Grenadiers shoot themselves out of ammo, they no longer have any grenades, despite the fact that you can click on the Use Grenades button, which they then try but nothing ever happens.

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That's interesting. I never really thought about it because, well, one or two grenade salvoes and the target unit is dead, dead, dead. Not much need for tons of grenades once you commit them - and I don't commit them until the musketry is over with.

I suppose the game treats grenade fire as an "alt shooting" that works from the same global ammo stat as muskets, rather than having separate ammo pools. Meaning those itty bitty soldiers carry about 50 grenades each. It's a miracle the whole unit doesn't go up in fireworks the second they're hit by flaming shot :laugh4:

I rarely use the cover feature directly anymore. In my experience, it lowers the firepower of a unit and can compromise their melee abilities as well.

First, units don't seem to fire by ranks. Although this protects them from enemy fire, by not exposing all ranks, it kills their firepower in many ways. The best defense against an infantry charge is a well timed volley from each rank. No-can-do behind walls.

Second, the wall appears to offer no melee advantages at all. If allowed enough room to run, both cavalry and infantry can jump straight over walls with little or no slowdown. Units walking or moving at angles can get stuck or slowed down by walls but straight on charges work pretty well. Especially when the AI does it. :inquisitive: Cavalry charges are especially bad with walls, because you can't use a good volley to knock half the unit out.

I sometimes station units behind walls but never use the cover feature.