Germanic pikemen

Well I'm playing a Sweboz campaign and i just finished my Lvl 5 mic in my capitol and trained two troops of Germanic pikemen and managed to get them over the alps. now they and a fairly large stack sit on a bridge near Mediolanum. now a Romani stack of similar strength attacks them and we fight for the bridge.last time i had a bridge battle i had a unit of Alpine Phanlanx with meand they killed a mob of 500 angry Celtic spearmen and levy spearmen. while loosing 20 men. I said to myself "well when those pseudo hoplite phalanxes can do that what will my pseudo phalanxes to in the same situation." so i did with the outcome of me reloading the game because those §")%!§/)=%!§/?$ stopped like 5meters before the bridge begun and settled with a circle as formation!!!!!! I've seen units dooing silly stuff, i've seen the phalangites dance and I've seen the Ai charging their FM's into the front of Agyraspidai and what notbut this is exeedingly annoying and I know it just needs a good advice from someone more experienced in pseudo phalanx warfare than me :)

so:
what can i do to let the Germanic pikemen get into an anti bridge formation as fast as possible(the romans on the other side charge over the bridge :/ )

thanks in advance

Frist of all, I believe you should practise this yourself. Just play a Custom Battle with a bridge and you'll enetually figure out what to do. By the way, are those "pseudophalanxes" actually effective? I've read somewhere that the Speutogardoz are not that great actually...

Maio

It worked fine with the alpine phalanx who have cosiderably shorter spear and got in position perfectly.

I know Germanic pikemen are rather crappy without the phalanx ability but If they are supposed to do anything it's taking formation and letting the enemy kill themselves on the bridge.

and, Maion, it's against romans!

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Originally Posted by Ca Putt

and, Maion, it's against romans!

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Well, I'd give you a thousand ways to kill a Romaios if it was for a Hellenic instead of Barbaroi faction you chose!

Maion

you need to turn off phalanx and run them into formation in front of the bridge, they will usually stop short but when they have stopped give them a second order, click and drag, to stand in front of the bridge, then when they stop again activate phalanx. Pausing helps alot.

Now, I've never done this with a germanic phalanx but what works for one factions phalanx troops should work for another faction.

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Originally Posted by miotas

you need to turn off phalanx and run them into formation in front of the bridge, they will usually stop short but when they have stopped give them a second order, click and drag, to stand in front of the bridge, then when they stop again activate phalanx. Pausing helps alot.

Now, I've never done this with a germanic phalanx but what works for one factions phalanx troops should work for another faction.

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They are no 'real' phalanxes, they didn't have the phalanx ability. No way to activate/deactivate the phalanx. But guardmode should work fine.

Ceterum censeo Romam esse delendam

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Originally Posted by Ca Putt

those §")%!§/)=%!§/?$ stopped like 5meters before the bridge begun

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Ive noticed that too, its seems to be a problem the Thraikioi Rhomphaiaphoroi and a few other units also have, but i have no idea what causes it.

The Speutagardaz are a excellent unit (their spears have 0.15 lethality) but they need to have their flanks protected as they have no secondary weapon.

Just use guard mode, when they are in formation, but anyway germanic Pikemen are not a defensive unit.

When they stop before they get to the bridge, if you reissue the order with a click and drag they usually go where you want them to. Just about every unit does this.

The AI can be rather stupid so you need to treat it like a stupid person and tell them the exact same thing multiple times :beam:

Are you playing 1.2? Because then you dont have the old Speutogardaz who had a real phalanx, as Maion states earlier, are they really good enough that they can hold if they stand in formation?

Maybe even easier, just order the unit across the bridge (with no intention of doing so). When the front of the unit is in the position you want, just hit STOP [backspace]. The rest of the unit will now trott into position.

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Originally Posted by bobbin

The Speutagardaz are an excellent unit (their spears have 0.15 lethality, which beats Roman legionaries who have 0.13) but they need to have their flanks protected as they have no secondary weapon.

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Aye, and they are excellent cavalry or chariot killers. And pikemen with blue coats just look super cool (think Hysteroi Pezhetairoi).

Where can I find out what a unit's lethality is?

As Maion said, experiment around in custom battles until you figure out what works best - the pathfinding in the RTW engine can get a bit funny sometimes, especially around bridges and gates of settlements - i usually put a pike/decent spear unit as close to the end of the bridge as possible without the formation getting messed up, then guard that units flanks with another two decent pike/spear units - any 'spillover' from the central unit usually gets minced :smash: Doesnt hurt to have a few reserve spear units too in case your guys get pushed back!

edit: this kinda thing - ptolies sending two armies into a grinder!

https://i277.photobucket.com/albums/...g?t=1240077056

sorry about the blurriness!

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Originally Posted by miotas

Where can I find out what a unit's lethality is?

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You have to look in the export_descr.txt file

Code:

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type            germanic infantry gaisaz harjoz
dictionary      germanic_infantry_gaisaz_harjoz      ; Speutagardaz
category        infantry
class            spearmen
voice_type      General_1
soldier          germanic_infantry_gaisazharjoz, 40, 0, 1.2
officer          ebofficer_germanic_standardbearer
mount_effect    elephant -3
attributes      sea_faring, hide_improved_forest, very_hardy
formation        0.76, 1, 2, 2.4, 4, square
stat_health      1, 1
stat_pri        16, 8, no, 0, 0, melee, blade, piercing, spear, 0 ,0.15
stat_pri_attr    light_spear
stat_sec        0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, no, no, none, 0 ,0.1
stat_sec_attr    no
stat_pri_armour  7, 13, 2, leather
stat_sec_armour  0, 0, flesh
stat_heat        4
stat_ground      0, 0, 1, 0
stat_mental      15, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay  0
stat_food        60, 300
stat_cost        1, 1606, 402, 125, 174, 1606
ownership        germans, slave

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The value underlined is the lethality of the weapon.

When I'm finished with my exams I'm planning to include them in my Info Card minimod.

Those Germanic pikemen desperately need that phalanx formation. Their pikes are no good without the formation. If anyone is interested in modding them to have the phalanx, just ask me. In my campaigns, I already modded them.

See EB Documentation.

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Originally Posted by Aemilius Paulus

Those Germanic pikemen desperately need that phalanx formation. Their pikes are no good without the formation. If anyone is interested in modding them to have the phalanx, just ask me. In my campaigns, I already modded them.

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Don't you just add phalanx to the "formation" line in the EDU? Worked with the Dacian Heavy Phalanx.

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Originally Posted by Frontline1944

Don't you just add phalanx to the "formation" line in the EDU? Worked with the Dacian Heavy Phalanx.

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Yeah, but you also have to change the spear type. Plus, the Dakian Heavy phalanx is not supposed to be a pike phalanx. Just a regular, looser Greek phalanx.

Thanks for the replies but I got sick of reloading the battle and simply used Chauki Proven ones, not perfect but it worked somewhat. as for the Pikemen(yes I know they don't have the phalax ability) they were involved in a series of sallies out of mediolanum where they were rather useless and finaly got anihilated(but one) by 4 roman infantry units and a charge in the back by a roman general :(,. but they bought a lot of time for my proper units to deal with the rest of the army and thus died the death of heroes and may join their ancestors in Valhalla :D I just disbanded the last guy in patavium and settled with waiting for the reform to build MIC5 in my other provinces.

anyway I'll try ordering them over the bridge in a Costom battle :)

Improving the combat performance of the Speutagardaz and other "pseudo-phalanxes" by modifying the invisible "radius" soldier stat was being looked into but has been on hold a bit AFAIK (my job actually, when stuff came up and I disappeared for three months...). The test results seemed pretty promising however.