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Do You, or Have You Ever, Lived in the United States? Then You Are a Filthy Criminal.
I do not exaggerate; currently, due to the huge amount of federal laws, you are a criminal, and it only depends on if the government wants to put you away and what law they use to do it;
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Consider small-time inventor and entrepreneur Krister Evertson, who will testify at today's hearing. Krister never had so much as a traffic ticket before he was run off the road near his mother's home in Wasilla, Alaska, by SWAT-armored federal agents in large black SUVs training automatic weapons on him.
Evertson, who had been working on clean-energy fuel cells since he was in high school, had no idea what he'd done wrong. It turned out that when he legally sold some sodium (part of his fuel-cell materials) to raise cash, he forgot to put a federally mandated safety sticker on the UPS package he sent to the lawful purchaser.
Krister's lack of a criminal record did nothing to prevent federal agents from ransacking his mother's home in their search for evidence on this oh-so-dangerous criminal.
The good news is that a federal jury in Alaska acquitted Krister of all charges. The jurors saw through the charges and realized that Krister had done nothing wrong.
The bad news, however, is that the feds apparently had it in for Krister. Federal criminal law is so broad that it gave prosecutors a convenient vehicle to use to get their man.
Two years after arresting him, the feds brought an entirely new criminal prosecution against Krister on entirely new grounds. They used the fact that before Krister moved back to Wasilla to care for his 80-year-old mother, he had safely and securely stored all of his fuel-cell materials in Salmon, Idaho.
According to the government, when Krister was in jail in Alaska due to the first unjust charges, he had "abandoned" his fuel-cell materials in Idaho. Unfortunately for Krister, federal lawmakers had included in the Resource Recovery and Conservation Act a provision making it a crime to abandon "hazardous waste." According to the trial judge, the law didn't require prosecutors to prove that Krister had intended to abandon the materials (he hadn't) or that they were waste at all -- in reality, they were quite valuable and properly stored away for future use.
With such a broad law, the second jury didn't have much of a choice, and it convicted him. He spent almost two years locked up with real criminals in a federal prison. After he testifies today, he will have to return to his halfway house in Idaho and serve another week before he is released.
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The other hardened criminal whose story members of Congress will hear today is retiree George Norris. A longtime resident of Spring, Texas, Norris made the mistake of not knowing and keeping track of all of the details of federal and international law on endangered species -- mostly paperwork requirements -- before he decided to turn his orchid hobby into a small business. What was Norris's goal? To earn a little investment income while his wife neared retirement.
The Lacey Act is an example of the dangerous overbreadth of federal criminal law. Incredibly, Congress has made it a federal crime to violate any fish or wildlife law or regulation of any nation on earth.
Facing 10 years in federal prison, Norris pled guilty and served almost two. His wife, Kathy, describes the pain of losing their life savings to pay for attorneys and trying to explain to grandchildren why for so long Poppa George couldn't see them.
Another article:
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The week before McCain issued his threat, the Justice Department fought in the Supreme Court to maintain the right to jail sick people taking marijuana on the advice of their doctors and with the approval of their state government. On November 29, the Supreme Court heard oral argument in Ashcroft v. Raich, a case involving two desperately ill women who use marijuana and seek protection from prosecution under federal drug laws. Acting solicitor general Paul Clement told the Court that medicine grown in one's own backyard for home consumption was a national matter, subject to Congress's power to regulate interstate commerce—despite the fact that there is nothing remotely commercial or interstate about the conduct at issue.
Those are just two recent examples of a federal government that views its jurisdiction as limitless. That's a view quite at odds with the one held by the Constitution's Framers. The document they drafted envisioned a federal government focused on national issues, such as "war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce," in Madison's words. Even the most devoted advocate of national power, Alexander Hamilton, agreed, explaining in Federalist 17 that under the Constitution, "the ordinary administration of criminal and civil justice" would be left to the states.
We've drifted far from that understanding. Congress's power to "regulate Commerce...among the states," which was designed to eliminate state-level trade barriers, has become a limitless font of federal power, used to regulate or criminalize behavior better left to the states or the civil law.
With commerce clause limits eviscerated, almost anything can be a federal crime. We've gone from a Constitution that mentions only three federal crimes (treason, piracy, and counterfeiting) to a federal criminal code with over 4,000 separate offenses, some of them stunningly trivial. In 2002, President Bush signed legislation making it a federal crime to move birds across state lines to engage in fights. The ban on cockfighting joined such notable federal crimes as interstate transport of unlicensed dentures (punishable by up to a year in prison), tampering with an odometer (up to three years), and pretending to be a member of the 4-H Club (up to six months). These and other offenses larded throughout the U.S. code could make for an interesting conversation with one's cellmate: "What are you in for, kid?"
...
Case in point: In the months leading up to the September 11 attacks the FBI was engaged in an 18-month-long sting operation at a brothel in New Orleans that netted 12 prostitutes.
Luckily, we have some sane legislators (first article again);
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We should applaud Reps. Bobby Scott (D-Va.) and Louie Gohmert (R-Texas), then, for holding a bipartisan hearing today to examine how federal law can make a criminal out of anyone, for even the most mundane conduct.
This shows not just the stupidity of federal power, but seems to be an argument against the EU as well - since I can easily see them instituting even more of these types of laws.
CR
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Re: Do You, or Have You Ever, Lived in the United States? Then You Are a Filthy Crimi
It feels good to be a gangsta...
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These and other offenses larded throughout the U.S. code could make for an interesting conversation with one's cellmate: "What are you in for, kid?"
You know those tags on the bottom of mattresses that say 'Do not remove under penalty of law'? Well.. funny story.
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Re: Do You, or Have You Ever, Lived in the United States? Then You Are a Filthy Crimi
haven´t been...but hope to visit some day....
I´ll start thinking up a good story to tell the homies at the big house...
Ain´t nothin but a gangsta party!!!
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Re: Do You, or Have You Ever, Lived in the United States? Then You Are a Filthy Crimi
So you finally agree with me then, Comrade Rabbit? :laugh4:
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Re: Do You, or Have You Ever, Lived in the United States? Then You Are a Filthy Crimi
I completely agree with the topic.
Maybe one day, justice will be served, but as it seems now, most of them still enjoy their freedom... :sweatdrop:
I think the current plan is to turn the whole country into a prison, I believe that's why the fence in the south was built.
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Re: Do You, or Have You Ever, Lived in the United States? Then You Are a Filthy Crimi
I once read a statistic somewhere saying America was 2% of the world's population, but had 25% of the worlds prison population. Never fact checked it before.
America wants its citizens locked up. Prisons are a business of their own.
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Re: Do You, or Have You Ever, Lived in the United States? Then You Are a Filthy Crimi
Actually the prison situation is causing us quite a financial headache. Caused by laws that were enacted by reactionary policy makers, without enough foresight to realize that there are better ways to curb certain types of crime. Prisons should only be holding murderers, rapists, and thieves. I don't see how sending a Drug Addict into a Prison is doing anyone any favors.
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Re: Do You, or Have You Ever, Lived in the United States? Then You Are a Filthy Crimi
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Originally Posted by
Crazed Rabbit
This shows not just the stupidity of federal power, but seems to be an argument against the EU as well - since I can easily see them instituting even more of these types of laws.
I fear that you are missing the point somewhat. It's not just federal institutions that can legislate insanity. Some of the worst abuses of this kind are perpetrated by local government officials. And your Police Abuses thread demonstrates how any petty officials can "interpret" even reasonable laws.
It's not the scale of the government, but the fact of government unchallenged by citizens.
It brings me back to a question raised some time before. Your long-term argument for the 2nd Amendment is that widespread gun ownership guarantees liberty. Whilst I have some sympathy for the position, I maintain that only a politically active and engaged citizenry, mindful and protective of their rights can keep the necessary evil of government in check. That also requires that they hold their representatives to account, constantly and urgently. It doesn't matter a damn whether they are armed or not - unflinching purpose is all that arms us against tyranny.
Whilst federal (as shorthand for large scale) governments have more opportunity to distance themselves from the people, an apathetic people can be rolled over by the smallest town council. It is why Louis and I, both passionate believers in the principle of a European Union, fall out over the issue of subsidiarity and the accountability of the elites to the citizenry thus represented.
So I ask - not just of Crazed Rabbit, but all of us who feel the righteous injustice he has highlighted - what do you do about it? Do we sit at home cradling our guns whilst muttering "I'm free" or do you campaign, march, resist? We might growl at demonstrators, especially since they are usually left-wing and young for holding up the traffic or wearing purple-dyed mohicans in a public space, but are they not doing what we should? Holding the governments of the world to account? How many of us are out there on the streets like the Green movement of Iran forcing our unjust governments to listen or fight?
Do we read our newspapers and our Backroom with Victor Meldrew on our lips, or are we politically active? Because if all we ever do is mutter and take the bread and circuses allowed to us, we deserve every single instance where the government spends our children's futures, murders people at home and abroad for fun and profit, frightens us witless to allow them to deny inalienable rights to "others", enslaves us for half the year to pay for it all and then imprisons us randomly for the privilege.
I like to believe I do quite a lot. But clearly not enough, and certainly not enough of my fellow citizens do even that. Why, one wonders?
In short, CR, where is your armed revolution? (Or my peaceful one?)
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Re: Do You, or Have You Ever, Lived in the United States? Then You Are a Filthy Crimi
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Originally Posted by
Mooks
I once read a statistic somewhere saying America was 2% of the world's population, but had 25% of the worlds prison population. Never fact checked it before.
America wants its citizens locked up. Prisons are a business of their own.
To be fair, it's about 5% of the world population and slightly less than 25% of the official prisoners (dictorships like China probably has higher numbers in reality).
Anyway, is there still a "tough on crimes (harsher punishments for criminals)" rethoric prevalent in the US? As the penalties are fines for an equivalent crime, at most, here (and then I'm not touching the issue that it's seems too easy to convict people for that stuff).
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Re: Do You, or Have You Ever, Lived in the United States? Then You Are a Filthy Crimi
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Originally Posted by
Banquo's Ghost
[...]
In short, CR, where is your armed revolution? (Or my peaceful one?)
Very good post Banquo, been thinking about that myself.
It's also not just that, a comedian I saw said according to polls 80% of Germans want a minimum wage, 80% want out of Afghanistan, 80% want to roll back parts of the Hartz IV reform, there is only one party which wants to do all that and 14% of Germans vote for them. :dizzy2:
Now it was just a comedian and I haven't checked his numbers but I often get the feeling that's how it really is, why, I wouldn't know.
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Re: Do You, or Have You Ever, Lived in the United States? Then You Are a Filthy Crimi
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Originally Posted by
Banquo's Ghost
stuff
I cling to guns and march on Washington.
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Re: Do You, or Have You Ever, Lived in the United States? Then You Are a Filthy Crimi
Do You, or Have You Ever, Lived in the United States? Then You Are a Filthy Criminal.
Hey. I bathe at least twice a week.
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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost
In short, CR, where is your armed revolution? (Or my peaceful one?)
Apparently, waiting for the straw that breaks the camel's back. It ain't bad enough yet. And there's hope for improvement.
So although:
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That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government...
this currently prevails:
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Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.
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Re: Do You, or Have You Ever, Lived in the United States? Then You Are a Filthy Crimi
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Originally Posted by
KukriKhan
And there's hope for improvement.
You mean there's hope and change? ~;)
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Re: Do You, or Have You Ever, Lived in the United States? Then You Are a Filthy Crimi
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Originally Posted by
Husar
You mean there's hope and change? ~;)
Heh, yeah. The two things all pollies run on. Always.
What candidate in his right mind would campaign on "Everything's Fine; Up with the Status Quo!" ?
Our dark side warns us to eye leaders for any sign of despotism. Yet, our equally strong bright side (optimism, bordering on naïveté) assures us that leaders are just (wo)men, the same as us, and probably intend to do no harm, the same as us.
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Re: Do You, or Have You Ever, Lived in the United States? Then You Are a Filthy Crimi
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Originally Posted by
KukriKhan
What candidate in his right mind would campaign on "Everything's Fine; Up with the Status Quo!" ?
As I recall, the first modern ad campaign in a British election in the Fifties was Conservative and ran on, "Everything's fine, don't let Labour ruin it", or some such.
How times have changed.
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Re: Do You, or Have You Ever, Lived in the United States? Then You Are a Filthy Crimi
Marijuana is the same as drinking alchohol and smoking ciggarettes at the same time. Illegal.
not-Buckling my seatbelt is my own concern and no business of the government. illegal
the speed limits are set so low that any reasonable person is breaking them at all times, except for some blind old codger who is barely satisfying the speed minimums. illegal
sharing music online. (which you could be doing by simply playing your stereo too loudly at a party) and nobody has lost anything material. illegal.
There are absurd reasons to arrest anyone for anything and seize property. It sucks and we are less free because of this nonsense.
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Re: Do You, or Have You Ever, Lived in the United States? Then You Are a Filthy Crimi
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Originally Posted by
TuffStuffMcGruff
not-Buckling my seatbelt is my own concern and no business of the government. illegal
Not if you're in the back, then you could heabutt your mum and kill her...
EDIT: To clarify, I had that idea from an advert in which the driver was the mum of the kid riding in the back of the car, when they crashed he flew forward and smacked into the back of her head. I've got to stop posting while distracted...
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Re: Do You, or Have You Ever, Lived in the United States? Then You Are a Filthy Crimi
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Originally Posted by
TuffStuffMcGruff
Marijuana is the same as drinking alchohol and smoking ciggarettes at the same time. Illegal.
:jawdrop:
(Yeah, I'm one to talk... before I hung out in the backroom I thought big government was a good thing.)
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Re: Do You, or Have You Ever, Lived in the United States? Then You Are a Filthy Crimi
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Originally Posted by
TuffStuffMcGruff
sharing music online. (which you could be doing by simply playing your stereo too loudly at a party) and nobody has lost anything material. illegal.
Unless it's human beatbox music they usually bought some instruments, booked or bought a studio etc. to record that music, why is it wrong if they want something in return for those investments? So yeah, they do lose something material because they invested money to make that music in the first place.
And those who just make music because they love doing it and want to make people happy won't ask for money anyway and thus sharing their music is not illegal.
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Re: Do You, or Have You Ever, Lived in the United States? Then You Are a Filthy Crimi
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Originally Posted by
Husar
Unless it's human beatbox music they usually bought some instruments, booked or bought a studio etc. to record that music, why is it wrong if they want something in return for those investments? So yeah, they do lose something material because they invested money to make that music in the first place.
And those who just make music because they love doing it and want to make people happy won't ask for money anyway and thus sharing their music is not illegal.
How many of the old bluesman or folk singers made any realistic amount of money by putting their music to record? None. And that's the way it should be. Musicians are supposed to make their money by actually performing their music to others, not recording a performance and sitting on their fat asses and waiting for the money to roll in. Making money off being a "studio band" is for people like the Beatles. Making money live is what real musicians do.
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Re: Do You, or Have You Ever, Lived in the United States? Then You Are a Filthy Crimi
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Originally Posted by
Husar
Unless it's human beatbox music they usually bought some instruments, booked or bought a studio etc. to record that music, why is it wrong if they want something in return for those investments? So yeah, they do lose something material because they invested money to make that music in the first place.
And those who just make music because they love doing it and want to make people happy won't ask for money anyway and thus sharing their music is not illegal.
Who says you have to earn millions if you make music?
Why isn't it good enough to make 100.000USD a year? And why shouldn't musicians have to have a normal job in addition to their music?
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Re: Do You, or Have You Ever, Lived in the United States? Then You Are a Filthy Crimi
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Originally Posted by
HoreTore
Who says you have to earn millions if you make music?
Noone?!
Noone forces you to buy it, doesn't mean you have a right to listen to it.
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Originally Posted by Reverend Joe
How many of the old bluesman or folk singers made any realistic amount of money by putting their music to record? None. And that's the way it should be. Musicians are supposed to make their money by actually performing their music to others, not recording a performance and sitting on their fat asses and waiting for the money to roll in. Making money off being a "studio band" is for people like the Beatles. Making money live is what real musicians do.
That's the way you like it, personally I prefer listening to music at home over going to a loud concert.
You can do just that, go to concerts and ignore their CDs and records, that's not illegal, so why exactly are you complaining? They only make millions because millions of people actually buy their CDs or records, it's not like they're taking the money out of peoples' pockets. If listening to a concert is the only real way to listen to music then why do you feel you need to have a right to own a digital copy of that music for free? :inquisitive:
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Re: Do You, or Have You Ever, Lived in the United States? Then You Are a Filthy Crimi
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Originally Posted by
Banquo's Ghost
So I ask - not just of Crazed Rabbit, but all of us who feel the righteous injustice he has highlighted - what do you do about it? Do we sit at home cradling our guns whilst muttering "I'm free" or do you campaign, march, resist? We might growl at demonstrators, especially since they are usually left-wing and young for holding up the traffic or wearing purple-dyed mohicans in a public space, but are they not doing what we should? Holding the governments of the world to account? How many of us are out there on the streets like the Green movement of Iran forcing our unjust governments to listen or fight?
I actually agree on the importance of having an active citizenry. And you have a point- I haven't made that many calls to my elected officials, or written many letters to the editors. As for local officials - they too can be tyrants, but much power comes from being able to prosecute basically anyone because of federal or state law.
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In short, CR, where is your armed revolution? (Or my peaceful one?)
For both of us, I think the answer is the final straw.
For another, very informative essay of the huge expanse of Federal Law, look here, and read chapter 2.
One example tells of business men charged with violating the Lacey Act, money laundering, and conspiracy. All because they imported lobster tails in plastic instead of cardboard containers, supposedly violating some Honduran law. Even Honduras saying that the law wasn't valid didn't matter.
CR
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Re: Do You, or Have You Ever, Lived in the United States? Then You Are a Filthy Crimi
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Originally Posted by
Reverend Joe
( before I hung out in the backroom I thought big government was a good thing.)
Let us not get into extremes upon hearing some sensationalist news. I agree the things in the opening post are inexcusably outrageous, but small government has its pitfalls as well. I take moderation in liberal-conservative debate very much seriously.
This is something that should be fixed, but no single event, no matter how frequent those freak accidents occur, should instantly be considered as a direct and practical repudiation of a political model.
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Re: Do You, or Have You Ever, Lived in the United States? Then You Are a Filthy Crimi
Why is this a question of small government vs. big government, when it should be a question of good government vs. bad government?
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Re: Do You, or Have You Ever, Lived in the United States? Then You Are a Filthy Crimi
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Originally Posted by
HoreTore
Why is this a question of small government vs. big government, when it should be a question of good government vs. bad government?
Because it is impossible to define "good" government, and naive to extreme to even try. Italy has the still-all-powerful Mafia; Eastern European countries the corruption in ever place, nook, and cranny; US the all-powerful lobbies, which makes US legislature not a matter of whether it works, but how many and which lobbies it pleases, and which it does not. As someone here before stated, a mod I believe, "different cheeks, same ********".
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Re: Do You, or Have You Ever, Lived in the United States? Then You Are a Filthy Crimi
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Originally Posted by
HoreTore
Why is this a question of small government vs. big government, when it should be a question of good government vs. bad government?
Because big government is bad government. That's the whole point.
The bigger the government is - the more aspects it regulates by making laws against whatever it wants, the worse it becomes.
CR
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Re: Do You, or Have You Ever, Lived in the United States? Then You Are a Filthy Crimi
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Originally Posted by
Crazed Rabbit
Because big government is bad government. That's the whole point.
The bigger the government is - the more aspects it regulates by making laws against whatever it wants, the worse it becomes.
CR
Scandinavia calls your bluff.
:smash:
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Re: Do You, or Have You Ever, Lived in the United States? Then You Are a Filthy Crimi
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Originally Posted by
HoreTore
Scandinavia calls your bluff.
:smash:
East Germany calls yours.
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Re: Do You, or Have You Ever, Lived in the United States? Then You Are a Filthy Crimi
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Originally Posted by
TuffStuffMcGruff
Marijuana is the same as drinking alchohol and smoking ciggarettes at the same time. Illegal.
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4: :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Must contain laughter. :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Cannot contain laughter from hilarity of statement. :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
