The Proper Usage of Carroccio Standards?

I've been deliberating how best to employ the Carroccio Standard in the armies of the Italian City-States. Specifically in Venice, where my allegiance lies, but since the Carroccio arrives around the same time for all the Italian factions... well. Any discussion about the Mighty standard should experience some faction overlap.

From my understanding, the Carroccio Standard is the the unholy fusion a general, a smaller unit of infinite-morale spearmen, and a siege engine. Given how the composition of Venetian (and all Italian) armies around that time period tend to lean militia-heavy, the morale-boosting influence of the massive standard is the Italian answer to the lack of professional armies. After all, Militia units will fight and die under the shadow of their city-state's Carroccio. For an added-plus, that elite unit of Carroccio Spearmen bodyguards will fight to the last man, making them impossible to rout.

Now, my research has fallen flat because there's hardly any documentation on the Carroccio itself. Certainly, guide after guide has acclaimed the Standard's utility in the extremely saturated clime of Northern Italia, but after that, there's hardly any information on their morale-boosting effects, proper tactical deployment, et cetera.

So my questions are the following:

1) Morale - What exactly is the numerical bonus to morale provided by the Carroccio Standard? And what is the ultimate range of the Carroccio's morale effects? Additionally, is there a morale penalty administered upon the loss of a Standard, and if so, what is the numerical value of this penalty?

2)Spearmen Attributes - I'm well-aware that Carroccio standards are pushed by spearmen that never rout, even in the face of suicidal odds. My question is pertains to how they operate in combat: Spears normally get bonuses against cavalry charges, but do they lose these bonuses while pushing the cart? Can a Carroccio Standard bodyguard rout if separated (i.e. ~ no longer pushing) the Standard?

3) Deployment - What is the ideal tactical deployment of the Carroccio Standard? Common practice seems to have the Carroccio immediately behind the center of the line of Spearmen. But because spear and pike militia generally suffer from low morale figures and an extreme vulnerability to flank attacks, is there any benefit to placing a Carroccio standard directly behind each of the flank-protecting spears or pikes (i.e. ~ the left-most and right-most units of a spear or pike front line)?

I'd rationalize this formation as similar to the MTW spear wall, where high morale spears on the end of the spear wall are replaced by the Carrocio's Spearmen. The Carroccio's morale boost would transform the left-most and right-most spear and pike militia into high-morale spear infantry. Plus, if the flanks start to crumble under pressure, the spearmen pushing the Carroccio wagons would essentially serve as a quick-response reserve with infinite morale. (The only downside to this I can see so far is that you need two standards to make it work.)

4) Number - How many Carroccio Standards should be employed on the battlefield at any given time? (I'm curious about whether the benefits of a second Standard outweigh the costs or not.)

5) Finally, under what conditions is there a benefit to taking a Carroccio Standard into a multiplayer skirmish?

Many interesting questions, of which I can answer none at present. However, I'd like to share an observation I've made on a great use for Carroccios and True Crosses (which actually pertains to all siege equipment more or less):
They're fantastic mobile obstacles. Basically, they put a speed bump on the battlefield wherever you want it. This is especially good in siege and bridge defenses, since you can (almost) close a wall gap or busted gate, and even bridges can be almost sealed off. Granted, the enemy will find a way past sooner or later, but there'll be no charging masses, rather a slow trickle of enemy troops which the Carroccio guards can easily take care of.
I even used Carroccios in this role in open field battles, and it has proven useful from time to time, especially against the Mongols. If you have good defensive terrain, Carroccios can split up the enemy cavalry charge, or at least prevent it at one point.
Obviously, the Carroccio must be placed in front of your lines for this approach to work. But as I like to play missile-heavy, and I like to place a few more or less suicidal units out in front of my ranks to provide archers and crossbows with time to do their thing (spear troops in shiltrom are best for this), Carroccios are great for this approach. If the guards are in danger of being overwhelmed, let them drop the Carroccio and withdraw. As with siege weapons, they can come back and pick it up again later to once again provide the morale bonus.

On a side note, I like to build several rams when laying siege. When the enemy sallies, those rams are next to each other, providing your archers great protection. Usually, the AI tries to go around the rams, so the unmanned rams become a kind of fortification for you to hold.

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Originally Posted by Empirate

Many interesting questions, of which I can answer none at present. However, I'd like to share an observation I've made on a great use for Carroccios and True Crosses (which actually pertains to all siege equipment more or less):
They're fantastic mobile obstacles.

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While you've answered none of my questions, I have to say that your strategy is either a sign of divinely-inspired genius or sheer unadulterated madness. Using Carroccio Standards as frontline spearmen to pin enemy chargers and infantry in place is... ridiculously exploitative of their infinite morale. The Machiavellian inside me approves.

I'd be glad to say it was my idea. It was this forum which inspired me to try obstacle abuse when some regular talked about Carroccios blocking city gates... after that, I made some experiments myself in two campaigns as the Venetians and as the Hungarians (hired two True Crosses for the same purpose).

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Originally Posted by Empirate

Many interesting questions, of which I can answer none at present. However, I'd like to share an observation I've made on a great use for Carroccios and True Crosses (which actually pertains to all siege equipment more or less):
They're fantastic mobile obstacles. Basically, they put a speed bump on the battlefield wherever you want it. This is especially good in siege and bridge defenses, since you can (almost) close a wall gap or busted gate, and even bridges can be almost sealed off. Granted, the enemy will find a way past sooner or later, but there'll be no charging masses, rather a slow trickle of enemy troops which the Carroccio guards can easily take care of.
I even used Carroccios in this role in open field battles, and it has proven useful from time to time, especially against the Mongols. If you have good defensive terrain, Carroccios can split up the enemy cavalry charge, or at least prevent it at one point.
Obviously, the Carroccio must be placed in front of your lines for this approach to work. But as I like to play missile-heavy, and I like to place a few more or less suicidal units out in front of my ranks to provide archers and crossbows with time to do their thing (spear troops in shiltrom are best for this), Carroccios are great for this approach. If the guards are in danger of being overwhelmed, let them drop the Carroccio and withdraw. As with siege weapons, they can come back and pick it up again later to once again provide the morale bonus.

On a side note, I like to build several rams when laying siege. When the enemy sallies, those rams are next to each other, providing your archers great protection. Usually, the AI tries to go around the rams, so the unmanned rams become a kind of fortification for you to hold.

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I used them just like you.
And about the rams .. I usually build them as much as I can and wait for the enemy to sally. Then I will place them like this:
><><><
This creates almost a wall in front of my troops and makes it easier to defeat them.

About the questions in OP I will answer later.

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Originally Posted by Ibn-Khaldun

About the questions in OP I will answer later.

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I can hardly wait!

Mangonels work best for cav charge breaking since they can hit right infront with massive AOE instadeath and there are multiple ones per group.

First of all, I haven't played Milan and Venice for a long time. I found this info when using Forum Search, looking data files and I add some bits I remember about them.

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1) Morale - What exactly is the numerical bonus to morale provided by the Carroccio Standard? And what is the ultimate range of the Carroccio's morale effects? Additionally, is there a morale penalty administered upon the loss of a Standard, and if so, what is the numerical value of this penalty?

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I'm not sure how much is the exact bonus but Carroccio have attribute called standard in edu file. I think this attribute is hardcoded and unfortunately I don't know how much bonus it gives. Try asking in the mod forum in here or in twc if you want to know the exact number. There is no morale penalty if Standard is lost but if it is destroyed you will loose morale bonus it gives.

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2)Spearmen Attributes - I'm well-aware that Carroccio standards are pushed by spearmen that never rout, even in the face of suicidal odds. My question is pertains to how they operate in combat: Spears normally get bonuses against cavalry charges, but do they lose these bonuses while pushing the cart? Can a Carroccio Standard bodyguard rout if separated (i.e. ~ no longer pushing) the Standard?

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Carroccio have lock_morale on the stat_mental line. This must be the reason why Carroccio guards fight to the death. They will receive spear bonus even when they push the cart. And they will not rout when separated from the Standard.
Check this:https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...occio+standard

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3) Deployment - What is the ideal tactical deployment of the Carroccio Standard? Common practice seems to have the Carroccio immediately behind the center of the line of Spearmen. But because spear and pike militia generally suffer from low morale figures and an extreme vulnerability to flank attacks, is there any benefit to placing a Carroccio standard directly behind each of the flank-protecting spears or pikes (i.e. ~ the left-most and right-most units of a spear or pike front line)?

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I think this part have been answered already in this thread.

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4) Number - How many Carroccio Standards should be employed on the battlefield at any given time? (I'm curious about whether the benefits of a second Standard outweigh the costs or not.)

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Depends against who you are fighting. From older threads I read that they are very good against Mongols if you have to defend your cities. But about 2-3 would be more than enough. Also, they are pretty cheap (at least in Vanilla game).

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5) Finally, under what conditions is there a benefit to taking a Carroccio Standard into a multiplayer skirmish?

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Since I don't play MP then I can't answer that question. :shrug:

I do suggest you to use Forum Search option and check those older threads yourself. You might find something I missed. ~:)

Hope this helped you a bit.

I always taught these cross's effects and effecting area is same as the chanters of RTW. But morale is reducing if they've been destroyed? Thats new for me.