1.5. Anyone playing as France try to declare war on Cherokees?

Play as France and on turn 1 (any turn actually while Louisiana exists) declare war on Cherokees who have no treaties whatsoever with France at the time. France will get a -50 global diplomatic hit for "dishonoring treaties" with everyone, including its allies.

The trick is, I stress again, that France has no treaties with Cherokees. So what treaty is France breaking!? The matter of fact is, it's Louisiana who has a trade agreement with Cherokees at the game start. This trade agreement (between Lousiana and Cherokees) gets broken as Louisiana joins the war on France's side. But, why on earth, does FRANCE get a global diplomatic hit?

This oddity was present in the game before 1.5. It just did not get fixed in the latest patch and seems to be "set in stone" now since CA has decided to stop patching the "perfect game".

IIRC France and GB have a free access treaty or whatever it is called with the natives. At least that was the case prior to 1.5.

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Originally Posted by Monsieur Alphonse

IIRC France and GB have a free access treaty or whatever it is called with the natives. At least that was the case prior to 1.5.

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Duh... :wall: I just looked at the first screen (the one which displays trade relationships and alliances). The military access treaty does not show up there, only if one opens the next level of diplomatic interaction (the negotiations screen).

Anyway, it seems, it's impossible to opt out of the mil. access treaty. France can cancel their side, but the Cherokee side remains.

I've been wondering exactly the same since I managed to get ETW working again while ago. How in the world am I gonna get my future subordinates to cancel unlimited military access?
This problem goes for many countries, as Austria I like to take out Bavaria for good income +2nd school and then move to Venice for same purpose (and if I feel like tech rushing, I go to Italian states for the same purpose). But now all those countries offer me unlimited military access, meaning there is no way I can go to war with them without getting up to -200 diplomatic relations with most countries for dishonoring treaties.
Worst part is that "Dishonoring treaties" stays nearly for ever.

I have noticed them giving you unlimited military access with trade agreements and you never would know if you didn’t look at their screen after you have reached an agreement.

There is also no where you can see all of your agreements in one place. You have to go through each faction and look at the screen after you open negotiations.

I think it is just a little zinger that CA has given us, kind of like a rotten Easter egg.

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Originally Posted by Fisherking

I think it is just a little zinger that CA has given us, kind of like a rotten Easter egg.

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Or... just an oversight that has taken place during the latest patches. For some reason, I have some maybe hallucinating memories of being able to cancel military access (both ways) before 1.3.

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Originally Posted by Slaists

Or... just an oversight that has taken place during the latest patches. For some reason, I have some maybe hallucinating memories of being able to cancel military access (both ways) before 1.3.

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I am not sure, to tell the truth.

I know in 1.1 and maybe 1.2 you could cancel someone’s military access with you, but they may not except it and just keep on trucking.

I know that that was changed at some point and if you canceled your side of the access then they got tossed.

I think in the latest patch they split it so that each side has a trigger and I see that some factions grant access with the trade agreement, unasked for...

Oooo...:wall:

So how does this work when one of the Provinces Louisiana wants you to take as their mission is actually..

CHEROKEE TERRITORY

How am I to complete the mission?? :help:

The three provinces they want me to take are: Mitchigan, Al(whatever) and Cherokee

Buy the territory from Louisiana, offer them any of your territories expects Michigan and Alqonquin (misspelled probably) and as soon as you get Cherokee Territory, all provinces you gave them instantly go back to you, but all unfinished constructions will be lost.

Nope, that is not really an option. I have not found a native faction that would sell lands.

With the little poisoned pill they have just set him up.

If he attacks the Cherokees then he has broken a treaty and will have everyone on his back, even though there was no treaty...they just gave military access so he would take the hit.

Nothing is to be done if you want Louisiana but to take them out. It is just a set up and you have to live with it.

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Originally Posted by Fisherking

Nope, that is not really an option. I have not found a native faction that would sell lands.

With the little poisoned pill they have just set him up.

If he attacks the Cherokees then he has broken a treaty and will have everyone on his back, even though there was no treaty...they just gave military access so he would take the hit.

Nothing is to be done if you want Louisiana but to take them out. It is just a set up and you have to live with it.

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Arse! :furious3:

I’ve just got an alliance with Great Britain as well…don’t fancy losing that.

I’ll have to check the diplomatic avenues in detail and see if there is anything I can do to at least lessen the blow.

I want to know WHY Louisiana require a Cherokee province though?? I thought it was just Iroquois territories.

Just so you know, all three of the missions require that region.

So if you play as Spain, Great Britain, or France that one region is required to get your protectorate to join your faction.

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Originally Posted by Braden

Arse! :furious3:

I’ve just got an alliance with Great Britain as well…don’t fancy losing that.

I’ll have to check the diplomatic avenues in detail and see if there is anything I can do to at least lessen the blow.

I want to know WHY Louisiana require a Cherokee province though?? I thought it was just Iroquois territories.

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Well, one way (to try) would be to grab a province right next to Cherokees, leave it ungarrisoned, and threaten Cherokees with something every turn in hope they'll get sufficiently pissed to attack your unguarded province. If they attack, you'll get no penalty (I believe).

Basically in ETW it's usually best to get your target nation to attack you. If you play as GB the Cherokees attack the Thirteen Colonies within a few turns and you get to go to war with them - it takes longer for them to attack Louisiana though.

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Originally Posted by A1_Unit

Basically in ETW it's usually best to get your target nation to attack you. If you play as GB the Cherokees attack the Thirteen Colonies within a few turns and you get to go to war with them - it takes longer for them to attack Louisiana though.

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Ok, that sounds like a plan. I'll see if I can phish them off sufficiently to launch an attack.

maybe the idea is to simulate the historical treaties nations made with indian factions, and that way if you do want your protectorate, well theyre trying to force you to break your treaties so that everyone knows what you did to the native americans, or something like that?

The thing I dislike is how Britain Spain and France NPC's automatically own their protectorates after 5 turns or so. They should have never implemented that in the game.

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Originally Posted by Beskar

The thing I dislike is how Britain Spain and France NPC's automatically own their protectorates after 5 turns or so. They should have never implemented that in the game.

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Oh…that’s a real crock. I’ve started to annoy them diplomatically now…I am officially “Disliked” after cancelling their military access rights.

I can’t demand any regions from them for some reason (guess I’m not disliked enough for that) so I started asking for regular “tribute” payments “or else”…its somewhere to start. I’ll just keep doing that every turn and see what happens…this ought to test the diplomatic Ai a bit.

Just to check though, when I open up the diplomatic screen for Regions..it only shows my own…never theirs.

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Originally Posted by Braden

Oh…that’s a real crock. I’ve started to annoy them diplomatically now…I am officially “Disliked” after cancelling their military access rights.

I can’t demand any regions from them for some reason (guess I’m not disliked enough for that) so I started asking for regular “tribute” payments “or else”…its somewhere to start. I’ll just keep doing that every turn and see what happens…this ought to test the diplomatic Ai a bit.

Just to check though, when I open up the diplomatic screen for Regions..it only shows my own…never theirs.

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Regions are theater based. You have to go the Americas to see their regions. It is also their capital so you can’t demand that one. You will just have to settle for one you know they won’t give you.
:beam:

Back to the "annoying them every turn with random threats" plan then.

I'm in no hurry to complete the mission but I'd love the ships Louisiana is kicking out at the moment! Don't ya love Ai factions in-human way to tech up so fast...:laugh4:

I'm sitting on 4th rate ships now at least (year 1710) so I can start holding my own against those uber Pirate Galleons.

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Originally Posted by Beskar

The thing I dislike is how Britain Spain and France NPC's automatically own their protectorates after 5 turns or so. They should have never implemented that in the game.

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Well, I think, that's implemented in order to provide some challenge for the player and elevating non-player Britain, France and Spain to the super-power status they were at the time. On the other hand, giving these provinces to the player at the game start would make for a rather boring game.

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Originally Posted by Braden

Back to the "annoying them every turn with random threats" plan then.

I'm in no hurry to complete the mission but I'd love the ships Louisiana is kicking out at the moment! Don't ya love Ai factions in-human way to tech up so fast...:laugh4:

I'm sitting on 4th rate ships now at least (year 1710) so I can start holding my own against those uber Pirate Galleons.

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I think, you need to appear "being weak" militarily too in order for the AI to bite. If you have a large army next to the faction you're trying to annoy they are not likely to attack.

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Originally Posted by Slaists

Well, I think, that's implemented in order to provide some challenge for the player and elevating non-player Britain, France and Spain to the super-power status they were at the time. On the other hand, giving these provinces to the player at the game start would make for a rather boring game.





I think, you need to appear "being weak" militarily too in order for the AI to bite. If you have a large army next to the faction you're trying to annoy they are not likely to attack.

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Like that plan…it can be done. I’ve been pursuing the Iroquois with only 2 thirds of a stack (settings VH battles, Normal campaign this time) so by the time I get to them I may well seem weak!

Noticed, oddly, that I can build colonial dragoons…didn’t think France got them?!?

Colonial dragoons you get as France.

Just the straight dragoons and never light dragoons.

I think you can build them anywhere outside Europe. Africa is as close to home as you get them.

Problem solved.

I was allied to GB and they decided to start a war with them before me!

I just followed and beat them to the territory I wanted...MAJOR power still happy with me and I have the mission completed.