Switzerland About To Vote On Minaret Ban

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34191036...ld_news-europe

Quote:

---

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Swiss vote on referendum to ban new minarets
Right-wing parties regard mosques’ spires as symbols of militant Islam


GENEVA - Swiss voters are deciding in a referendum Sunday whether to accept a ban on the construction of minarets, which right-wing parties regard as symbols of militant Islam.

The move — led by the Swiss People's Party, which has campaigned in previous years against immigrants — has stirred fears of boycotts and violent reactions from Muslim countries.

Polls indicate growing support for the proposal, but doubt remains about whether it will pass. The seven-member Cabinet that heads the Swiss government has spoken out strongly against the initiative.

Muslims have been keeping a low profile so far. Still, the Geneva Mosque was vandalized Thursday when someone threw a pot of pink paint at the entrance.

Earlier this month, a vehicle with a loudspeaker drove through the area imitating a muezzin's call to prayer, and vandals damaged a mosaic when they threw cobble stones at the building.

Ban could impact economy
Business leaders say a ban on minarets, the distinctive spires attached to mosques, would be disastrous for the Swiss economy because it could offend wealthy Muslims who bank in Switzerland, buy the country's luxury goods and visit its resorts.

The vote taps into the anxieties about Muslims that have been rippling through Europe in recent years, ranging from French fears of women in body veils to Dutch alarm over the murder by a Muslim fanatic of a filmmaker who made a documentary that criticized Islam.

Local officials and rights defenders have objected to the campaign posters, which show minarets rising like missiles from the Swiss flag next to a fully veiled woman.


Four minarets in country would remain
Minarets are typically built next to mosques for religious leaders to call the faithful to prayer, but they are not used for that in Switzerland. The four minarets already attached to mosques in the country will remain even if the referendum passes.

Muslims make up about 6 percent of Switzerland's 7.5 million population, many of them refugees from the Yugoslav wars of the 1990s. Fewer than 13 percent practice their religion, the government says.

A survey by the respected polling institute gfs.bern last week indicated that 53 percent of voters oppose the initiative, although support for it has grown by 3 percentage points to 37 percent since last month. Typically in Switzerland the margins on such votes narrow as balloting nears. Ten percent of the 1,213 people polled were undecided. The survey had an error margin of 2.9 percent.

---

Is this the populism we've been hearing so much about?

Really, what's the point of this? Is the intent to prevent the construction of mosques in the event of an influx of Muslim immigrants to Switzerland?

Not something I would do even if I am not very fond of the Islam, freedom of religion is freedom of religion. All that bull on minarets and headscarves are a bit silly to me, this is a complex problem banning religious symbols isn't going to make that go away. They can buy a piece of land a build a mosque how can we say 'no you can't', I don't like it, but what can you do it's a free country

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Azathoth

Really, what's the point of this? Is the intent to prevent the construction of mosques in the event of an influx of Muslim immigrants to Switzerland?

---

They aren't trying to stop mosques altogether, just stopping them building the minarets(the spikey bits) on the top of them, which makes even less sense then stopping the construction of mosques. The whole idea sounds pretty stupid to me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Azathoth

Really, what's the point of this?

---

Some people just enjoy making life harder for others.

It really is nonsense. It's like saying that we should stop building bell towers for churches to stop catholic priests abusing alter boys.:dizzy2:

Anyway, minarets and mosques are beautiful architectural pieces.

This is just racism, plain and simple. There would be a :daisy:storm if Morocco said it was going to ban Church bells, and yet the Swiss are quite happy to prevent the building of a fourth minaret in Switzerland. That's right, there are a grand total of three minarets in Switzerland, and yet the way the Swiss xenophobic parties describe them, you'd think that primary schools and orphanages were being knocked down to make way for Mega-Mosques. The Swiss People's Parties are merely the same spawn as the BNP, Geert Wilders, etc.

Geert Wilders really doesn't belong there, a lot of his voters are secular muslims, mostly Iraqi's and Iranians, and other immigrants from the old colonies as well.

Quote:

---

They aren't trying to stop mosques altogether, just stopping them building the minarets(the spikey bits) on the top of them, which makes even less sense then stopping the construction of mosques. The whole idea sounds pretty stupid to me.

---

So if banning minarets won't even prevent Muslims from building mosques...

Word is in, the Swiss voted in favour of a ban

Thank you very much Switzerland, makes it all that much easier for me to explain that the decent right only has it's eyes on the political Islam

idiots. Gah I am furious you are hurting our cause you cheesemelting mongrols

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Subotan

This is just racism, plain and simple. There would be a :daisy:storm if Morocco said it was going to ban Church bells, and yet the Swiss are quite happy to prevent the building of a fourth minaret in Switzerland. That's right, there are a grand total of three minarets in Switzerland, and yet the way the Swiss xenophobic parties describe them, you'd think that primary schools and orphanages were being knocked down to make way for Mega-Mosques. The Swiss People's Parties are merely the same spawn as the BNP, Geert Wilders, etc.

---

it is daft, but it is also their right.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Furunculus

it is daft, but it is also their right.

---

It's their right to deny other people their freedom?

That's stretching things, methinks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HoreTore

That's stretching things, methinks.

---

You just wait, this is a disaster for Europe the mother of 'yeah but', thanks for giving away the higher ground, really, good job. I now have nothing to say for myself, and that's going to be exploited, Switzerland FU

Quote:

---

Word is in, the Swiss voted in favour of a ban

---

I'm ashamed to be on the same continent as the pigs who voted for the ban.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Furunculus

it is daft, but it is also their right.

---

Viva tyranny of the majority!

Switzerland is only geographically part of Europe so they can keep all the blame for themselves.
It really is rather silly though.
Nay for direct democracy?

Quote:

---

Not something I would do even if I am not very fond of the Islam

---

What is "The Islam"? Is it by any chance related to "The Christianity" or "The Buddhism"?

Some justifications I saw online:

Quote:

---

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Why are we, in the US. "The Great Satan"? We allow all to practice their religion unhindered or not practice any religion if you so choose. Europe puts restrictions on what, how, and where you can practice your religion. Why do the muslim countries forbid the practice of any religion other than Islam?

---

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Quote:

---

simply another instance of muslims trying to force their way on the world. They refuse to assimilate into a culture so they wish to force that culture to change to suit them. We've all seen what happens if we don't kiss their asses, they kill a few thousand of us. What a wonderful philosophy, kill the infadel, unless it's more worthwhile to just take over their country. I say, let them boycott their little asses off and protest all they want, if they don't like it, GO THE **** HOME

---

I nearly pooped at this one.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Quote:

---

if they allow minarets, the next thing they will have to change the flag.

if you didnt know, the swiss flag is a cross. that means its a christian country.

---

A similar thing has happened in my town, Drammen.

There's a sizeable population of people of turkish descent here, and they want to build a proper mosque, as the mosque in use today are just office buildings and such redecorated to be a place of worship, and that's not very stylish...

Here are the pics of what it will look like(p01 and p12, tiny pictures though unfortunately), and let's face it; it looks awesome. It will easily be one of the best looking buildings in the city, it's a shame it won't get built in the centre of the city though.

But awesome as it may look, the "immigration skeptics"(the party Roger Madsen, from another thread, belongs to) have been blocking its construction for years now. Even though not a single tax dollar will be spent on it, they will pay for everything themselves, permits and such have been blocked as much as possible.

The really funny stuff is that some people seem to think that there are no mosques here, that muslims have been living here for 30 years without a place of worship, and they seem to be completely ignorant of the fact that all they want to do is build a nicer mosque, there already are a bunch of mosques, and unless they get genocidal there's no way to stop them from having mosques.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hax

What is "The Islam"? Is it by any chance related to "The Christianity" or "The Buddhism"?

---

Hax I may be an idiot but that doesn't mean I am not educated, I know of the various branches of Islam, where, how, when. But I know it when I see it, and the political branch has little to do with the lore of old it's power

@Horetore, the minaret is a symbol, there are many ways to conquer a place. That is the exact original meaning of a minaret; conquered. They aren't wrong about that, in the Islam there is conquest by migration and conquest by force.

Maybe it's a safety factor. Minarets can fall over.


This isn't even right-wingism. This is just stupid. How can they actually accomplish anything by doing this? It's like if the nazis hadn't done anything but ban menorahs in public. Mind-boggling, how stupid some people are.

Though I think this is stupid on both the political and ideological level, I can't help but think "Good riddance!".

I think religion as a whole should disappear, and I also think "The Islam" (to quote Frag) - or at least its modern uses - is winning the sillyness contest hand down. But that's indeed a wrong signal to send to the people who actually thought they could integrate in the swiss society.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Furunculus

it is daft, but it is also their right.

---

Yep. You can't stop a political vote just because its daft. You can however stop it if it goes against the laws of said country (ie, an unconstitutional law/ruling/statute). I'm not versed in Swiss law though, so I'm in no position to pass judgement.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Psychonaut

Yep. You can't stop a political vote just because its daft. You can however stop it if it goes against the laws of said country (ie, an unconstitutional law/ruling/statute). I'm not versed in Swiss law though, so I'm in no position to pass judgement.

---

I would be surprised if they aren't subject to the European human rights court...

So honestly, I can't really see how this can be passed...

I am a bit torn.

One argument in favour of a ban is that it stops the exceptional status Islam enjoys. Switzerland looks as good as it does because of very strict building laws. One is not allowed to build anything that clashes with the natural or cultural environment. And it shows in the beauty of the land.
Nobody, however, has dared to say 'no' to minarets, for fear of being labelled a racist.

A secular group is not allowed to build a large tower next to the clubhouse. Their Muslim neighbours are allowed to build it.

Clubhouses for traditional Swiss religions are allowed to build spires. Which moves the question to is essence: is multiculturalism about integration, or separation? All Swiss inhabitants of non-Swiss ancestry are perfectly well allowed to live in Switzerland, as Swiss. To integrate, as Swiss. But not as Non-Swiss. This referendum to some extent deems Islam 'non-Swiss'.

What the proponents of this ban ought to do, is test Switzerland by inventing a religion, and then to ask permission to build a 400 meter fluorescent pink tower in the centre of Bern - claiming their god demands this of them. This permission will obviously not be granted, neither before or after the current referendum. Which then puts the ball into the court of the 'pro-minaret' camp: what is so special about minarets that they should be accepted as Swiss, but other modes of expression via towers is not?





Also, it appears that all of the Frenchspeaking cantons voted against the ban, all of the other cantons voted in favour of it. The famous 'barrière de röstis' (Röstigraben) strikes again!

This seems to me more like an issue of the building code in a historical nation. Maybe they don't want alien architecture to clutter up and confuse the countryside that is responsible for so much tourism. Maybe Muslims could create a Swiss style mosque that jives with the them park that is switzerland instead of bringing the desert with them to the alps. Very little says skiing, hot chocolate, watches and Europe as poorly as the Middle east. It would be wierd if universal studios set up mammoth movie posters in the middle of Disneyworld, eh?

Religions have adapted to local architectural conventions for years. Look at modern Jewish temples and tell me that they look like they were shipped in from the Levant. They could start building church styled buildings with little crescents at the top. Time for change; I know foreign words like "change" and "adapt" have a hard time setting up their minarets in Muslim brains. Nobody is saying no to mosques, just no to the unsightly phallus-like minarets hogging the pristine skyline.

I also believe that Christian denominations should build steeples that look like minarets in Islamic nations. Everybody should be able to build whatever they'd like in countries like the US.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff

This seems to me more like an issue of the building code in a historical nation. Maybe they don't want alien architecture to clutter up and confuse the countryside that is responsible for so much tourism. Maybe Muslims could create a Swiss style mosque that jives with the them park that is switzerland instead of bringing the desert with them to the alps. Very little says skiing, hot chocolate, watches and Europe as poorly as the Middle east. It would be wierd if universal studios set up mammoth movie posters in the middle of Disneyworld, eh?

Religions have adapted to local architectural conventions for years. They could start building church styled buildings with little crescents at the top. Time for change; I know foreign words like "change" and "adapt" have a hard time setting up their minarets in Muslim brains. Nobody is saying no to mosques, just no to the unsightly phallus-like minarets hogging pristine skyline.

---

That post was rather contradicting....

Anyway, look at the minaret in the article. That ain't no middle eastern building style, that's a european style construction.

Also, having an entire country as a national park? That be taking things a bit too far. For the special spots, sure I can understand it. But I highly doubt that every new construction in Switzerland is in the same style as they built stuff centuries ago. Times change, so does Switzerland. Working as an architect in Switzerland sounds like the worst job in the world....

EDIT: A small tower is too much, but this is fits in perfectly with medieval buildings....? Please.

Geneva is the ugliest city I've ever been in. All the buildings are exactly the same height, same style, same size...it's like being surronded by Communist apartment blocks, except they're 300 years old rather than 30.

A minaret or two would make it a lot more interesting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff

Nobody is saying no to mosques, just no to the unsightly phallus-like minarets hogging the pristine skyline.

---

The article linked to it has a phallic steeple right behind the phallic minaret. It seems to be which patriarchal religion has the biggest schlong contest...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Husar

Nay for direct democracy?

---

Nay for Direct Democracy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Papewaio

The article linked to it has a phallic steeple right behind the phallic minaret. It seems to be which patriarchal religion has the biggest schlong contest...

---

Well, not really. After all, Mosques are just developments of Byzantine Churches, because the most impressive early ones were originally Byzantine Churches.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Papewaio

The article linked to it has a phallic steeple right behind the phallic minaret. It seems to be which patriarchal religion has the biggest schlong contest...

---

That shade of blue was necessary? Clearly one is more "Swiss" than the other.

All i have to say about this is "WHAT THE HELL?"

There are plenty of mosques and minarets here in the US of A and even our intolerant population isnt trying to get rid of them.

Europeans are nuts sometimes.