Entertain a couple more newbie questions

Well, question number one is...

Why can't I have all the faction specific units in qustom battles? Is there something wrong with my EB installation?

And question number two is addressed to those of you who have a lot of experience with KH.

In the EB Recruitment Viewer I see that the top level native MIC for the KH allows recruitment of only some artillery pieces in most cities except Sparta where

the infamous native hoplites could be trained. If I am not planning to ever use artillery is there any reason at all -recruitmentwise- why I should invest in the best government type in other cities?

Thanks in advance.

Welcome-ish.

I dunno about question 2, but Question 1 is so often answered that if the answer is not in the FAQ is should be.

You need to start your custom battles in multi-player mode in order to get the faction-specific units.

Hope that helps.

Edited to add the "ish" is not because I do not welcome you, I do, but because you have 3 posts as of now and is thus not totally a virgin, merely pretty new ;-)

What Macrille said, welcome to the forums!

If you want to play custom battles you should use the EB multiplayer shortcut and select custom battles through there, it should have all the faction specific units available.

Since I've never played as KH I can't answer your second question. :shame:

edit: I was too late... :shame:

KH question: if you take ambrakia (the phyrric capital) you get with the highest native MIC you can get, you get better cavalry, thorakitai, thureophoroi, artillery, but i like to take ambrakia and make it my recruitment center, you can however make a better government and better MIC, but it'll cost you time and money, things you don't get as the KH

Question: What if you can't get into multiplayer because the RTW install code is wrong?

~Jirisys (Thorakitai!!!!)

Thanks for the answers guys.

The second question was in fact asking about reasons other than recruitment for investing in the Spartan Agoge infrastructure. Can you give me any?

from what I have seen in posts here the Spartan Agoge gives pretty nifty traits to your FMs staying in Sparta, try searching the forum, there should be lots of results.

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Originally Posted by Arthur, king of the Britons

If you want to play custom battles you should use the EB multiplayer shortcut and select custom battles through there, it should have all the faction specific units available.

Since I've never played as KH I can't answer your second question. :shame:

edit: I was too late... :shame:

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I just tried to do that, but it didn't work - I think I might not be doing the right thing. Could you give me a step-by-step set of instructions on how select custom battles through the multiplayer shortcut, starting at the main menu? Thanks, -M

In terms of the second question, keep in mind that government types do more than simply determine recruitment options; they also provide different bonuses for the city. I don't know the bonuses for the KH Type I and Type II governments off the top of my head, but if you look in game and see that the Type II gov't seems to provide better bonuses than the Type I, and you don't need the highest level factional MIC, then go ahead and build Type II's instead of Type I's everywhere except Sparta. But if the Type I provides significantly better bonuses, then consider building them. Keep in mind, however, that the morale bonuses (+1 morale to troops trained here, etc.) do not actually work unfortunately, but the experience bonuses do.

Plus, from a historical perspective, isn't it a bit strange to be building a Spartan Agoge in places other than Sparta in the first place? Or did they ever bring their style of ruling to another city?

Edit: I should have read the thread more carefully, Macilrille already suggested looking at the bonuses.

As I understand it, KH was designed so that 'type II' government was basically just as useful as 'type I'. To answer your question, no, I don't think there are any factional units that require the final MIC upgrade other than the Spartiatai and those really big siege guns (which are so expensive, I never even bother with them). I think they did it that way so that players would not be forced to construct Spartan-style governments in places where it made no sense. On the other hand, you can probably interpret the Agoge style government to mean a generic, military oligarchy. In this case, it would make sense to construct it in places with strong martial traditions, and weak histories of democratic rule (like Makedon, or Krete).

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Originally Posted by Teucer

As I understand it, KH was designed so that 'type II' government was basically just as useful as 'type I'.

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Specifically: for the KH type I and II do not represent "homeland" and "expansion", but "homeland - agoge" and "homeland - other". Type II does not represent "homeland - democracy" as many people assume: popular tyrannies and the like are also type II.

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Originally Posted by Teucer

On the other hand, you can probably interpret the Agoge style government to mean a generic, military oligarchy. In this case, it would make sense to construct it in places with strong martial traditions, and weak histories of democratic rule (like Makedon, or Krete).

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Military oligarchies are not the same as the Agoge. The Agoge represents a dramatic militarization of society. The KH type I government can be instituted in those provinces that already had some elements of the agoge in place (communal barracks in Crete, a helot-like underclass in Thessaly and Byzantion). I am less sure why Athens, Taras and Thermon were made homeland provinces, though.

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Originally Posted by Mulceber

I just tried to do that, but it didn't work - I think I might not be doing the right thing. Could you give me a step-by-step set of instructions on how select custom battles through the multiplayer shortcut, starting at the main menu? Thanks, -M

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From the FAQ:

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Q: In custom battles or multiplayer the unit selection is missing units.
A: All of the regionals cause a problem for the custom battle / multiplayer list. There is a special EDU for custom battles / multiplayer in the "...Rome- Total War\EB\mp custom game edu" folder. Rename your campaign EDU then place the EDU from that folder into the "...Rome - Total War\EB\Data" folder. When you want to play a campaign again, switch back to your original EDU. EB v1.1 now comes with the trivial script, which will automatically switch the files for you. To play custom battles or multiplayer battles with all of your factional units, run the "Play Multiplayer" option of the trivial script.

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You can find the shortcut inside your RTW folder. If not, you have to install once more but this time with the Trivial Script.

XSamatan

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Originally Posted by Ludens

Military oligarchies are not the same as the Agoge. The Agoge represents a dramatic militarization of society. The KH type I government can be instituted in those provinces that already had some elements of the agoge in place (communal barracks in Crete, a helot-like underclass in Thessaly and Byzantion). I am less sure why Athens, Taras and Thermon were made homeland provinces, though.

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I agree. Frankly, considering the status of the KH Type I and II governments as both being different forms of homeland governments, I'm unsure why they didn't just limit the Type I to the very few provinces that actually exhibited some aspects of the Agoge. As you said, having a Spartan Agoge in Athens or Thermon simply doesn't make much sense.

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Originally Posted by Ludens

I am less sure why Athens, Taras and Thermon were made homeland provinces, though.

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I'm not sure about Athens and Thermon but Taras was a spartan colony so thats probably the reasoning behind its inclusion.

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Originally Posted by Mulceber

I just tried to do that, but it didn't work - I think I might not be doing the right thing. Could you give me a step-by-step set of instructions on how select custom battles through the multiplayer shortcut, starting at the main menu? Thanks, -M

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Erm.. I'm not at by EB comp at the moment so this may be incorrect.. :shame:

1. First launch EB through the Multiplayer shortcut.

2. When you get to the EB menu you should see a "singelplayer" option, click on that.

3 Then a custom battles option should be available to you and select it.

4. All units should be available to you now.

note: if this doesn't work then I may be able to check this later when I get to my EB computer.

Hey Arthur
Thanks for the advice, it worked...although now I'm stuck with it telling me I can't have Romani-vs-Romani battles (as you can probably tell, I'm planning ahead for role-playing the civil war). Anybody got any solutions, or am I just going to live with the fact that the EB multiplayer doesn't believe in civil strife? -M

Get another Laptop, hook up LAN and Fire up a Romaioi Vs Romaioi Vs Random AI with only 1 unit of Pantodapoi? (hypothesis)

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Originally Posted by Mulceber

Hey Arthur
Thanks for the advice, it worked...although now I'm stuck with it telling me I can't have Romani-vs-Romani battles (as you can probably tell, I'm planning ahead for role-playing the civil war). Anybody got any solutions, or am I just going to live with the fact that the EB multiplayer doesn't believe in civil strife? -M

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You have to edit the multiplayer EDU and other minor files to make Romani units recruitable for another faction (luckily, you won't need to touch the EDB if you're doing this for custom battles only.

Cool - any chance anyone could tell me how to do that? BTW, I'm sorry if I'm being a pain in the a** with all these questions, I'm just really a newbie when it comes to programming.

@ Satalexton - wouldn't work, unfortunately, as iirc, the program just absolutely refuses to let Roman units be on opposite teams - so even if you brought in the pantodapoi, the Romans would just all attack them and it would be game over.