Do you vote?

Despite being a politics student, I've never actually used my right to vote, and I don't plan to in the coming election either.

At the end of the day, all the major parties are made up of career politicians. There are no ideological differences any more, just a few minor differences that you would have to be an expert economist to understand the consequences of.

And even then you can only see that if you wade through all the :daisy: that is being churned out by the leaders during their campaigns. The Chanell 4 stuff they are doing with the alternative look at the elections gave some good insight into things, really highlights how it is all about rhetoric and never substance.

Not that this is all bad for me. IMO, apathy is a sign of a healthy democracy. If you live in a country that is stable enough that the differences between the major parties are nothing but purely symbolic and emotional symbolism based off their histories, then great!

But I'm just going to let the career politicians get on with it, I won't be wasting any of my valuable daytime TV time going to the ballot box for them (on that point, I am very angry that have cancelled some programmes for election stuff :furious3:).

But for the politically-aware orgahs of the Backroom, do you vote?

I do, but in all honesty I think I only do so I can legitimately complain without considering myself a hypocrit. I think my voting card or whatever you get sent out hasn't arrived for some reason so maybe I will miss this election...

If you don't use your right to vote, you cannot legitimately complain about who is in power. Even if you voted for a party who might not win, like the Greens, at least you voted and used your democratic rights, and you can complain.

Let's say only 50% of those who can votem did not vote. The 50% who did not vote cannot complain legitimately, as if they voted, they could have brought any party out there in to power, due to the numbers.

If you thought Labour and Conservative are careerists, why not vote for some one who you thought wasn't one? Why not campaign for someone or even go about creating your own party? Why not even run yourself?

If you got the power to potentionally change a system, and do not use it, then it is your own fault.

On the other side of the coin, the reason we have caereer politicians and no change is because a large part of the population thinks like do (albeit mostly at a much lower level) even if only the ones of those who were intrested went out and placed thier votes it would be a start (it could get the ball rolling so to speak)

voting is a duty. and beskar is right you cant complain unless you yourself vote.

because people who dont think their vote matters is why such a huge chunk of the population does not vote.

There's also some truth in the idea that not voting is a vote for the extremes. Those who support extremist causes are pretty much certain to vote. By failing to vote, even if it is a protest vote or a vote without thought, you are increasing the power of every other voter in the country. If all those without strong views didn't vote, then the election would be deciding between the BNP and the Green party.

Obviously that would be pretty extreme, but the principal is the same nonetheless.

To answer the question, I will be voting for the first time this election, which will be my second opportunity. I reckon a 50% record isn't so bad :smile:

Green's getting in would really cause a change in the system, but being honest, the Liberal Democrats getting in will be enough. It will get that ball rolling, and when political reform occurs, things will then get really interesting.

Then again, if you really want to protest vote, get all the non-voters to write "Beskar" on their forms. Would cause a consitutional stir. Possibly to the point I get elected to change the system for the better.

I vote. As said before, if you don't vote, you can't complain.

I don't trust the main parties. I don't believe either of them (as a whole) represent the citizenry, they just do what they can to get reelected, or are beholden to special interests. I cope with this by either voting 3rd party (rare), voting anti-incumbent (especially in primaries), or voting for gridlock. It lets me sleep at night. :zzz:

if you live in a country which, if you not vote those probably corrupt officials.... religious fanatics party alliance will win the election (because their followers will vote them) and impose that silly theocracy system on your country.... it was far better to have some administrators with sticky hands, than having ruled by religious fanatics...

I vote. Guys died to give me the right/duty. Not voting means they struggled and died for naught.

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Originally Posted by KukriKhan

I vote. Guys died to give me the right/duty. Not voting means they struggled and died for naught.

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Precisely. :bow:

I recall walking to vote in an election that took place at the same time as the Tiananmen Square massacre. The day was beautifully sunny, and the walk to the polling station gentle and calm. Yet far across the world, young people were being mercilessly murdered simply because they wanted the very same thing I was doing in the peaceful sunshine. That was when I realised what an extraordinary gift had been secured for me by the sacrifice of others - a gift denied to so many.

Even if one goes and writes on the ballot paper "None of the Above" you are still doing honour to those who went before, and those who still struggle. With so many parties available, however powerless, better yet to cast a vote for someone.

"[The saying] comes from a very ancient democracy, you see... On its world, the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people."
"odd," said Arthur, "I thought you said it was a democracy."

"I did," said Ford. "It is."

"So," said Arthur, "why don't the people get rid of the lizards?"

"It honestly doesn't occur to them," said Ford. "They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted for in more or less approximates the government they want."

"You mean they actually vote for the lizards?"

"Oh yes," said Ford, "of course."

"But why?"

""Because if they didn't vote for a lizard," said Ford, "the wrong lizard might get in."





>>> From the HHGTTG of course.

I don't vote... The two partys that comes most close to my political beliefs are the very right wing one, and the very left wing one. None of these partys agree with me on even half the questions. So whatever established party I vote for, I actually vote against my own beliefs. See the problem?

And no, I don't see the sence in voting for the "lesser evil" as so many people do.

And no, I dont have the time or will to make my own party.

Sometimes, though... you will found that you must choose the lesser evil solution, because if you don't vote, you'll get worse treatment....

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Originally Posted by Myrddraal

There's also some truth in the idea that not voting is a vote for the extremes. Those who support extremist causes are pretty much certain to vote. By failing to vote, even if it is a protest vote or a vote without thought, you are increasing the power of every other voter in the country. If all those without strong views didn't vote, then the election would be deciding between the BNP and the Green party.

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on the other hand, some might view it a an unhealthy signal regarding ones character if the only motivation to vote is to vote tactically against something.

it is much healthier to be for something instead.

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Originally Posted by Cute Wolf

Sometimes, though... you will found that you must choose the lesser evil solution, because if you don't vote, you'll get worse treatment....

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I don't agree... Say only 30% voted, and they only voted if they believed in the party. That would give a HUGE incitament for other partys to be formed. Or for the existing partys to change their policies. By voting for "the lesser evil", you make politics become stagnant, and ultimately not representant for the people at large.

I mean, it is bad enough as it is in Sweden with 8 or so partys you can vote for... I shiver when I think of countries with only 2 partys...

I am rather sure, that in a two-party country, most people vote more AGAINST, than FOR a party. IE, I vote X because I am against Y.

Britain's system works very well, it has two main parties (Lab/Con).
It has a opportunistic and aggressive reserve party should one of the two main parties become irrelevant (Lib)
It has minor parties that force change in the big-three by encouraging adoption of minor issues (UKIP/Greens/BNP)
It has local parties for people who wear tartan underpants and like to pleasure themselves while watching braveheart (SNP or Plaid Cymru)

Compulsory voting makes this a remarkably simple question to answer.

However, if it weren't compulsory (I believe it should be, but hypothetically speaking), I would indeed vote. I recall reading somewhere a quote along the lines of "only in the moment when a man casts his ballot is he truly free." That rings somewhat true to me.

I vote and have 10 times.

5 Parliment elections and 5 local governmental elections.
I do not support the couch party, which probably is the largest international party.
Even though on these hills not much change if the righ or left runs the country - The governement election system depends on someone getting off their backside and putting that ballot in the box.

And I agree with the others who say you can't complain about how things are if you don't vote.
If someone complains about things related directly to how we are governed, I ask: "Did you vote?" If they say no, I proceed: "Then shut your gegi[sic]."*

*Glaswegian for mouth.

I voted everytime I was supposed to, except last year when I was in Canada (for I don't know what election). So far, my only "real" vote was in favor of the European Constitution. With the exception of this one, I haven't voted for any one or any party so far.

I still do the deed to show anyone who cares (ie. none) that I find the political system laughable and that I'd vote for someone if there was someone I'd agree with.

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Originally Posted by Furunculus

Britain's system works very well, it has two main parties (Lab/Con).
It has a opportunistic and aggressive reserve party should one of the two main parties become irrelevant (Lib)
It has minor parties that force change in the big-three by encouraging adoption of minor issues (UKIP/Greens/BNP)
It has local parties for people who wear tartan underpants and like to pleasure themselves while watching braveheart (SNP or Plaid Cymru)

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We might be seeing the end of Labour as one of the Big 2:

New parliament requires Lib Dems for support. They sign up to Proportional Representation. This massively favours the Lib Dems and miscellaneous, slightly favours Conservatives, and considerably hurts Labour. If the Perception takes hold that Lib Dems is not a "wasted vote" their share could be maintained. Labour, even more than the Conservatives, is an umbrella of differing views, held together by mutual need. If all could gain as much - if not more - from standing separately there could be a true fragmentation.

If voting did become PR I would probably alter my vote to a minor party where at the moment I feel that it is "wasted".

~:smoking:

It's compulsory in Belgium, so I vote at each election. I would probably have done the same in all previous elections.

At this moment, I'm very disgusted with Belgian politics, so if there will be elections in June, I'll probably vote invalid by writing something on the paper along the lines of "you are all idiots and a disgrace to my country, each and every single one of you."

I am your perfect law-abiding bourgeois citizen, with petty little conservative ways, who votes every election, on established, moderate parties.


* purrs with contentment *



Pakistani politics are rubbish. Bolivian too. Western politics, on the other hand, are on the whole run by somewhat decent people making somewhat decent decisions.*



*Edit: except Belgian politicians, of course. Barking mad, the lot of them.

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Originally Posted by drone

I vote. As said before, if you don't vote, you can't complain.

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Yup.

Also, in the past few state and national elections, my area is teetering between partiees and I feel like my vote actually counts.

Where did I say I was complaining with the system? :wink:

I am glad we have such a stable system, where the extremist parties are marginalised. But I'm not going to pretend there is any real difference between the average Labour/Tory MP. That's OK with me, I'm happy for either of them to win.

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Originally Posted by KukriKhan

I vote. Guys died to give me the right/duty. Not voting means they struggled and died for naught.

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They died for it at a time when the vote really mattered. In the past there were the big class struggles, the epic left-right divide, communism v fascism, the radicals v the establishment etc.

But voting right now isn't important. If the BNP were to go on a metioric rise and threaten to come to power, then my right to vote would be useful. Or if it was a big issue with a referendum like Scottish independence might have.

But it really doesn't make a great deal of difference in the grand scheme of things whether I get a Labor/Tory MP.

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Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

But it really doesn't make a great deal of difference in the grand scheme of things whether I get a Labor/Tory MP.

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It does, by quite a lot. :laugh4: Because it means who gets in power in the next election, and what they will do with that power is quite significant.

I've only had one chance to vote thus far (the parliamentary election), and I didn't use it, and I will still complain as it is not a given that my choice is a choice in the election.

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Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

Where did I say I was complaining with the system? :wink:

I am glad we have such a stable system, where the extremist parties are marginalised. But I'm not going to pretend there is any real difference between the average Labour/Tory MP. That's OK with me, I'm happy for either of them to win.

They died for it at a time when the vote really mattered. In the past there were the big class struggles, the epic left-right divide, communism v fascism, the radicals v the establishment etc.

But voting right now isn't important. If the BNP were to go on a metioric rise and threaten to come to power, then my right to vote would be useful. Or if it was a big issue with a referendum like Scottish independence might have.

But it really doesn't make a great deal of difference in the grand scheme of things whether I get a Labor/Tory MP.

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no, now its just a question of whether i will be retiring in a country that more resembles france or hungary, given that we are facing a national debt of 400% of GDP by 2040!

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Originally Posted by Furunculus

no, now its just a question of whether i will be retiring in a country that more resembles france or hungary, given that we are facing a national debt of 400% of GDP by 2040!

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That can change pretty quickly though. Most of the problems which would cause that is because of the recession and banking crisis. As the economy picks up, that will go away anyway. What the government needs to do is cut all the "waste" and downsize some of the programmes which simply are not benefitical on the whole. They would also have to start repaying the actual debt.

Also, with some of the nationalisation of the banks, the government has already made a profit in terms of shares. Soon, the government could hypothetically sell those shares and get back a lot of the lost money in the bail-outs.

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Originally Posted by Andres

It's compulsory in Belgium, so I vote at each election. I would probably have done the same in all previous elections.

At this moment, I'm very disgusted with Belgian politics, so if there will be elections in June, I'll probably vote invalid by writing something on the paper along the lines of "you are all idiots and a disgrace to my country, each and every single one of you."

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That's pretty harsh, isn't it?
I mean considering that most likely the only person reading this will be someone helping to count the votes...

I have voted once or twice but since then all the votes have been on days I was out of town and I simply keep forgetting to get the papers for a mail vote or how it's called...

Of course you can complain if you don't vote. The only time you can't complain is if your vote would have been the deciding vote.

You might as well say that you can't complain if you didn't vote, donate, and volunteer for a campaign.