Finally Multiplayer Gets A Lead Role

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“It’s multiplayer, is where we’re taking the game and doing something very different,” says Mike. “Multiplayer has always been a bit lower down the priority list for Total War. We did the multiplayer campaign, but there’s a lot more scope for doing interesting things.”

“I guess our aim is to get to a point where the majority of people who buy the game routinely play multiplayer.” Laughing, he adds, “I really, really want to talk about this a lot but I’m not being allowed to.”

“To try covering the point that Mike desperately wants to cover,” laughs Kieran, “it’s safe to say that there is a major multiplayer innovation in the works, which we haven’t nailed down yet.”

“It’s not unambitious,” ends Mike.

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Mike Simpson, Creative Assembly’s creative director

http://www.pcgamer.com/2010/06/23/ex...-of-total-war/

:charge:

But have we not heard promises like that before? It always sounds like it is going to be a new MP revolution. RTW added the ability to play historical battles online and that is pretty much it when it comes to new fancy stuff even with all the hype in later titles. And then I'm not gonna mention the stuff we lost

So unless there are some real detail I'll be sitting here with my arms crossed defensive mode on...


CBR

It doesnt matter how many new ideas and options they bring to the MP if theres no foyer its DOA.

The overwhelming majority of players will still be SP. CA can improve the MP experience and that would be great. But they mustn’t ever forget who’s paying the bills.

Certainly saying the right words there... suddenly I'm wishing it was next year already, hehehe

Don't get me wrong, a chat lobby/foyer is high on my wish list too, but at the end of the day, I can't get STW or MTW to run on my machine, so it's the best chance I have of reliving some of the most satisfying gaming experiences I had.

Agreed. They might add in 1 or two new ideas, say, better MP campgain and a actual MP ladder system, but that's probably all they will do.

Could not agree more spoon :) No multiplayer foyer and its already crap no matter what they add.
They should do the basics right then throw us their new innovations, mp foyer, ladder and balance, nice maps etc.
Tons of games now have great communications in game, world of warcraft for example having guild chat, whispers and several channels the players can chat in as well as the main chat and trade foyers/channels in the cities.
Keep steam if they want even though its a pile of steam... ....., but make a multiplayer foyer and let us at least have the ability to communicate for the love of god :p

Mike Simpson likes to talk about evolution and revolution in totalwar games...

Shogun Foyer: Excellent Design with ability to host tournament or seperate chat rooms, Simple and very functional.

Medieval Foyer: More basic but still "good" lost ability to make tournament or seperate chat rooms.

Rome Foyer: Terrible Design with Video running in background (bad idea) and worst colour scheme ever, Almost every player hated it.

Empire/Napoleon Foyer: There is none!

So the mp foyers devolved then became extinct, so hard to understand why this happened, its not even close to hard to throw in the simple yet excellent shogun foyer!
I feel so strongly about this and i bring the subject up every totalwar release, and with each release im more dissapointed.
I actually like NTW its OK but i cant bring my self to play the thing because of the lack of a foyer it just makes the whole mp experience so damn shallow

Aside from that will be interesting to see what they come up with for mp ideas, lets hope they dont go back to the ideas introduced in the shogun expansion tho, they were so bad i cannot even remember what they were lol! noone ever played them(dont want to be too critical as at least they tried and the ideas just did not fit with a totalwar game). Still we had the option to play them or not so wasent a disaster and i hope they do experiment with some new ideas as long as we have the option not to play them if we do not like them.

I'm really looking forward to Shogun mp campaign mode i must admit, give old opponent and some free time and let the good times roll :)
If the games a sucess and includes a good foyer i will with the assistance of friends setup a clan campaign, even if its just 1v1 we can allocate players to control certain generals or armies or simply designate the players to each battle as the clan leader sees fit.
The clan campaign that was run years ago was excellent for the community and almost all the big clans were involved even allowing unclanned players to join as ronin, was excellent and im sure with the ability to now run it fully in game it would be so much better now if we can get a community going.

If i were them id add a Mp chat foyer, and give clans the ability to register in game and have their own chat channels like the guild tab in world of warcraft, have friends lists and be able to whisper players as well as chat in the main lobby, also allow players to create tournament lobbies.

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Originally Posted by Nelson

The overwhelming majority of players will still be SP. CA can improve the MP experience and that would be great. But they mustn’t ever forget who’s paying the bills.

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Who is paying the bill these days?

With out even knowing how many of those playing are multiplayer or single player, as they are counted together, I think that there is enough evidence below to put multiplayer way over the top for Steam users playing on June 30th 2010.

Or am I mistaken?

Current Players Peak Today Game

23,490 61,410 Counter-Strike: Source
23,048 56,456 Counter-Strike
22,208 68,605 Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 - Multiplayer
15,165 19,668 Team Fortress 2
9,641 15,144 Left 4 Dead 2
6,382 19,741 Football Manager 2010
5,816 7,457 Garry's Mod
5,009 6,722 Battlefield: Bad Company 2
3,722 6,713 Empire: Total War
2,842 3,762 Killing Floor
2,692 6,723 Condition Zero
2,645 3,957 Left 4 Dead
2,572 6,136 Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2
2,214 4,661 Napoleon: Total War
1,872 4,782 Day of Defeat: Source
1,613 1,613 Torchlight
1,602 2,694 Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War II - Chaos Rising
1,556 1,636 Mass Effect 2
1,544 1,976 Half-Life 2
1,500 1,960 Grand Theft Auto IV
1,496 1,600 Global Agenda
1,454 1,654 Borderlands
1,445 2,098 Supreme Commander 2
1,427 2,429 Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War II
1,424 1,671 Dragon Age: Origins
1,378 2,776 Mount&Blade: Warband
1,233 1,387 Portal
1,227 1,778 EVE Online
1,161 1,243 Sid Meier's Civilization IV: Beyond the Sword
1,145 3,742 Football Manager 2009
1,083 2,081 Half-Life 2: Deathmatch
1,073 1,750 Magic: The Gathering - Duels of the Planeswalkers
1,032 1,362 Mass Effect
795 1,046 Half-Life
758 948 Plants vs. Zombies
737 872 The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion - Game of the Year Edition
700 1,217 Day of Defeat
679 863 Sid Meier's Civilization IV
677 796 All Points Bulletin
627 875 Resident Evil 5
616 1,172 Just Cause 2
561 817 The Witcher: Enhanced Edition
559 634 Fallout 3: Game of the Year Edition
552 1,189 Sniper: Ghost Warrior
552 709 ARMA II - Operation Arrowhead
528 712 Assassin's Creed II
454 743 America's Army 3
451 606 Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare
433 523 Star Trek Online
425 536 Defense Grid: The Awakening
421 518 Shatter
420 619 Company of Heroes: Tales of Valor
395 598 Half-Life 2: Episode Two
390 739 Star Wars: The Force Unleashed
390 576 Company of Heroes
386 795 Red Orchestra: Ostfront 41-45
385 529 Call of Duty: World at War
377 542 Street Fighter IV
367 510 BioShock 2
355 424 Champions Online
349 823 Metro 2033
338 537 Audiosurf
334 597 Zombie Panic! Source
327 327 Red Faction: Guerrilla
322 828 Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising
322 532 Global Agenda Trial
316 451 Transformers: War for Cybertron
316 444 Half-Life 2: Episode One
312 592 Grand Theft Auto: Episodes from Liberty City
303 512 DiRT 2
298 655 TrackMania Nations Forever
295 377 Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
295 366 X-COM: UFO Defense
295 362 Rome: Total War - Gold Edition
276 460 All Points Bulletin
266 335 Tropico 3: Absolute Power
263 305 Titan Quest: Immortal Throne
260 356 Hearts of Iron III
257 347 Deus Ex: Game of the Year Edition
254 323 Europa Universalis III: Complete
253 413 Overlord II
252 527 Saints Row 2
251 426 Osmos
247 304 Team Fortress Classic
242 330 X3: Terran Conflict
238 342 EVE Online Demo
233 391 Insurgency: Modern Infantry Combat
230 356 Company of Heroes: Opposing Fronts
223 652 Aliens vs Predator
222 265 Puzzle Kingdoms
216 302 King's Bounty: The Legend
212 334 Overlord
212 212 ARMA II
205 287 Medieval II: Total War
192 310 Darkest Hour
188 335 Race Driver: GRID
187 274 King Arthur - The Role-playing Wargame
187 261 Tropico 3: Steam Special Edition
176 420 Unreal Tournament 3
175 185 Sid Meier's Civilization IV: Colonization

http://store.steampowered.com/stats/

Well, the numbers are what they are so you are not mistaken, Tomisama. The data is not germane however as to the question of who pays the bills for Creative Assembly.

STEAM numbers don’t tell us much at all. First person shooters and traditional RTS games such as Star Craft dominated the MP numbers and did for years until MMOs arrived. Now 11 million people play WoW. What does that tell us about Total War? No more than STEAM statistics.

For the Total War franchise, SP accounts for an overwhelming percentage of players. CA knows this and has admitted as much. They would of course like MP to grow. They would like to increase sales for any play style. If they thought they could get a Total War MMO to fly they would be tempted to go for it!

Brad Warrell (CEO of Stardock) posted on the Demigod forums some surprising stats on single-player/multi-player usage in the 2009 yearly report. Demigod was meant to be a multi-player game, the single player "campaign" was limited and the AI was not very good compared to good players, but only 23% of those that purchased the game ever went online to play it.

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Originally Posted by Stardock 2009 Report

For Stardock, the more significant shock of Demigod has been the discovery of the low number of PC gamers who play strategy games online. Demigod’s single player experience, while decent, did not get anywhere near the care that the Internet multiplayer experience did. Despite this, only 23% of people who have purchased Demigod have ever even attempted to logon to play Internet multiplayer.

Demigod continues to sell thousands of copies weekly – enough to remain at retail during the Christmas season despite it coming out last Spring – but the number of people available to play online is typically less than 2,000 at a given time. This is in stark contrast to MMORPGs and FPS’s which tend to have very large online communities.

Our conclusion is that strategy games that we make and publish in the future will support multiplayer but will not sacrifice the single player experience to do so.
Developer Gas Powered Games has continued to update and provide support to Demigod despite its work on Supreme Commander 2. At the time of writing, two new demigods are nearly completed along with a couple of significant updates.

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Having a good multiplayer is important, but it is not the end-all-be-all of a strategy game. That said, the multiplayer issues Demigod had at launch severely hurt it's potential.

CA will always play nice with the SP crowd. If they don't, it's simple business logic. Then the SP'ers and modders will ditch TW, then bye bye TW. BattleField Bad Company is a great MP game, I enjoyed it much, but it can not compare with TW. You can say how it has a lot of MP players, and true. But why does CA care about that game? It has no reason to, because in the end, SP players are paying the bills for TW, not MP players from different games.

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Originally Posted by Nelson

For the Total War franchise, SP accounts for an overwhelming percentage of players.

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Please understand, that I understand, that you are absolutely correct for what has transpired to-date.

I remember a survey here at the Org in the early days, that proved out that only 5% were active multiplayers at the time.

And that was pretty much considered to be a normal percentage rating for multiplayers of any game that provided the option then.

That was a long time ago in computer gamming time, and the world does not work that way any more.

In fact the research available for current consideration by developers, points clearly to the fact that games that have a multiplayer option sell twice as many units, as those who do not.

Now this was research on major manufacturer consol games, but without a doubt shows the direction things are going.

To confirm it, the numbers I presented show just one game having more players playing multiplayer, than any other game having players total!

That game was the only one clearly labeled as totally a multiplayer game, but we all know the many of the others are predominantly multiplayer also.

The reason that the Total War series is not yet a major leader in the race for the ever expanding multiplayer market; is that they have never really even tried to pursue that goal.

It has always been about single player, because that was “the game” from the beginning (safe, and I don't blame them).

Multiplayer was an add-on to capture an additional few percent of the market, but was never considered seriously as potentially money maker, capable of out grossing the single player base.

Add a little Steam, and all perceptions change; even the most conservative observer will have to admit the future of computer gaming is in one word; multiplayer!

People playing against and with other people, is more exciting, more enjoyable, and more meaningful, than people playing against and with computers.

A simple undeniable fact, in my book anyway :smile:

I'm still waiting on my broadband to be installed, so haven't experienced multiplayer without a foyer (I last played multiplayer with VI)... I'm assuming that no foyer means it's like a console interface (just a list of games to join like on a PS3 or something) - maybe trying to dumb everything down to console level, but why? Maybe they're toying with a cross-platform MMO concept, that's the only reason I can think as to why such an integral feature would be dropped.

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Originally Posted by IncubusDragon

I'm still waiting on my broadband to be installed, so haven't experienced multiplayer without a foyer (I last played multiplayer with VI)... I'm assuming that no foyer means it's like a console interface (just a list of games to join like on a PS3 or something) - maybe trying to dumb everything down to console level, but why? Maybe they're toying with a cross-platform MMO concept, that's the only reason I can think as to why such an integral feature would be dropped.

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This should probably be on a different thread, but since it’s here and I can’t move it, I will try to answer this nagging question.

In the beginning, with the onset of Shogun came the notion of personal honour.

The community was small by comparison then, and individual reputations were a priority.

Through the course of Medieval and Viking incarnations, we saw both the increase of population, and decrease in respectable behavior.

And with Rome and Barbarian a complete breakdown in social responsibility, and the lobby became a minefield of intimidation and bullying.

In the later days of Rome the quality of interaction was diminished to such and extent, that a Code of Honour was created by the Org multiplayers, to try to combat the trend downward.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k...noursigned.jpg

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forum...Code-of-Honour

It didn’t work in the greater sense, but did in some small way did comfort a few that there were still people playing that had self respect, and would treat you decently online.

I personally miss the foyer, but am not sure I would want it back now.

Some things are best left as sweet memories.

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Originally Posted by Tomisama

This should probably be on a different thread, but since it’s here and I can’t move it, I will try to answer this nagging question.

In the beginning, with the onset of Shogun came the notion of personal honour.

The community was small by comparison then, and individual reputations were a priority....

...I personally miss the foyer, but am not sure I would want it back now.

Some things are best left as sweet memories.

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The STW MP community may have been small, but it was strong with the kind of enthusiasm that could grow it. I was never much of an online player, but it puzzled me how support of MP seemed to diminish with each release as MP/online was the direction of the industry as a whole. Tomisama, your observation about the foyer is surprising, but I think you may be right about leaving it a "sweet memory". The gaming industry seems to encourage trash talking as the prefered way to interact with your opponents - just look at gaming ads in magazines to see that. :shame:

I think online behavior is a reflection of a bigger issue: a change in values/behavior at a macro-social level. Compare society in the 50s to society in the 60s, to the 70s, 80s, 90s and now. Notice anything? Because of this, I think it is unrealistic to think that any contrived mechanism could "bring back" honorable behavior. A noble notion to desire this, but in my opinion, doomed to fail. This is why I never subscribed to the CoH, though I never voiced this publicly because I didn't want to seem like I was sabotaging the effort.

Even "honorable" players can behave badly when they become upset over something that is important to them. Other "honorable" players can behave badly in response to incidents like these, particularly when they misunderstand the situation and are hasty to draw conclusions. Even the esteemed who trumpet about this have been guilty from time to time: I've seen it, even behind the closed doors of clans ("particularly" behind the closed doors of clans ...). We all make mistakes and no one is perfect. As said in a popular movie, honor is something one gives oneself (implied: or not ...).

I guess what I'm trying to say is: if you like the notion of honor, focus on maintaining your own honor (a formidable task), and worry not about the honor or dishonor of others. To do so is not only counter-productive, it can result in defeating the very ideal you are trying to uphold yourself.

Humbly. :bow:

(Just to be perfectly clear on what the code is, and is not.)

The Total War Multiplayer’s Code of Honour

The Code is for anyone who believes in self respect, respecting others, and fair play. You do not have to be a multiplayer to believe in these things; in fact you don’t have to play any games at all to consider The Code an excellent path for life in general, and to support it. The more Signers there are, the greater the possibility that the influence of The Code will prevail even among non Signers, and our community be a better place for it.

The Code is not an honour bestowed; but a pledge made! Whether the Signer adheres to the tenets proposed or not, let the little badge be a thorn in their side to remind them that once they had a noble ambition. It can also be there to alert others as to disreputable characters, when their actions do not match their promises.

The Code is the spirit of all of the best things we are capable of. When you wear the badge, you affirm the environment that you wish to operate in. It tells people that you are a person who is trying to make a difference. And they will be able to verify this by your actions, and know that you have a consistency of character.


Salute!

To Sign The Code please add your Steam ID to our Code of Honour Steam Group.

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/thecode

Thank You - Go With Honour - Keep The Code

EDIT: Never mind. No matter how valid my point may be, it would likely only ruffle the feathers of self-proclaimed "honorable" folk here and result in a heated exchange, which ultimately adds little value. Post removed.

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self-proclaimed "honorable" folk

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No one signing the Code is self proclaimed, and why I posted the follow up.

Please read slowly:

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The Code is not an honour bestowed; but a pledge made!

Whether the Signer adheres to the tenets proposed or not, let the little badge be a thorn in their side to remind them that once they had a noble ambition.

It can also be there to alert others as to disreputable characters, when their actions do not match their promises.

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The Code is a pledge to do the best you can, and if you fail (and we all do), to remind us that we must try harder.

No one signing is claiming anything but a quest to reach for the highest ideals, that is all!


But no matter, there are none professing to even make the effort anymore, and why The Code was closed here long ago.


End of story :shame:

The Total War games have always been focused on single-player and in that aspect they have been very successful both critically and commercially. However, let's face a simple fact: single-player, PC-only games are not the mainstream product right now. Total War is very popular, but still a thousand leagues behind PC gaming behemoths like World of Warcraft and Call of Duty. Not to mention the huge world of console gaming. Total War has a hit a realistic 'cap' - anyone interested in its current formula knows about it, probably played it and at worst chose not to play it. Its traditional market is saturated - it is very hard to expand and break new ground. Growth is limited, and over time, decline is guaranteed.

Given these facts, it's only logical CA wants to do something different with Shogun2: Total War. So, the question beckons, how is Total War going to expand and continue to prosper? Analyzing's today's market, there are two routes available:
(1) Go Console --- an option that as far as I know has been shot down. With good reason since the compromises that have to be made to port the TW formula to consoles will not go down well with the existing core market. The actual product would also suffer.
(2) Go Multi-Player --- an option that CA has flirted with over the years but not quite given importance so far. If CA gives the multiplayer dimension its necessary funds, time, resources et al, they could attract a new, huge crowd which they have not been able to attract so far.

Let's wait and see.

Regarding Code of Honour, multi-player foyer, the changing behaviour of online gamers: When Shogun: Total War was released, the game was followed by a modest but hardcore crowd. The Internet was still young. The average age playing Shogun was quite high. But it is important not to underestimate the theme of the game: everything was about loyalty and honour. This theme, which was profoundly present and alive in the community, had a ripple effect on how people behaved in the foyer and on the forums. As such, I am confident that although today - in 2010 - the Internet AND the Total War community have changed a lot - Shogun 2: Total War will bring back the "mood" of honourable behaviour. That's in our hands, particularly the leaders of the clans and the administrators of the main forums.

Tera

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(2) Go Multi-Player --- an option that CA has flirted with over the years but not quite given importance so far. If CA gives the multiplayer dimension its necessary funds, time, resources et al, they could attract a new, huge crowd which they have not been able to attract so far.

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As such, I am confident that although today - in 2010 - the Internet AND the Total War community have changed a lot - Shogun 2: Total War will bring back the "mood" of honourable behaviour. That's in our hands, particularly the leaders of the clans and the administrators of the main forums.

Tera

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Thanks for the validation and inspiration :beam:

Salute :bow:

Our number one rule for seven years.

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1. Behavior and Responsibility

Clans will be held responsible for the behavior of all of their members, with any disrespectful behavior anywhere in our community costing that Clan the privilege to participate in this competition.

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http://clanwars3540.yuku.com/directory

Just my tuppenth worth.

The foyar in STW/MI was self policing. If a player made rude or inappropriate remarks they tended to be shunned. If they were a member of a clan, the Daimyo was informed of the members behaviour and in most cases it was left to them to sort it out.

If someone garnered a reputation for gloating over a rivals defeat or similar things, word got around and the belligerant was given a wide berth by the community. This left the numpty involved being only able to play n00bs and so they couldn't advance on the ladder or gain valuble experience.

The gradual decline started with MTW as it has been noted.

STW obviously had a cachet for a certain type of personality, RTW less so.

Apart from moderating the foyar (not a chance!) then I would suggest that self policing became the norm. A forlorn hope? Possibly. We must remember that STW was around in the very early days of the t'internet and things have moved on considerably since those days.

I blame the kids.

and regulars to the backroom know my views on juveniles. :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by InsaneApache

then I would suggest that self policing became the norm.

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https://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k...ap_Japan28.jpg

In the center top of this old web page is the short version of the Seven Principles
of the Bushito Code ("Way of the Warrior").

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushido


The Seven Virtues

Gi – Honesty and Justice

Rei – Polite Courtesy

Yu – Heroic Courage

Meyo – Honour

Jin – Compassion

Makato - Complete Sincerity

Chugo – Duty and Loyalty


Hopfully this will be revived in the game :bow:

BORING!

I cant wait for the clan intrigue the backstabbing in the mp clan campaign the great danes and their briefcases disputing every decision! Bring it!

Ofc wolves were always honorable and would never participate in any of the above :)

I can't remember 5 years back, but did the R:TW Gamespy lobby have an ignore feature? If so I was regrettably unaware of it, because it was DEFINITELY needed.

Honestly an ignore feature is in most cases all a player needs to ensure a good, honorable, fun experience for him/herself.

Well S2TW will have to work hard if they are to beat RTW, the jewel in the crown of TW MP. The main improvement I would like to see in MP is better stability, it is very annoying when game rooms "goes dead" in RTW, this means they need to dump both Steam and GS and set up their own service; like Battle Net for Diablo for example.

Rome the jewel in the crown of multiplayer?

You have to be joking maybe the jewel in the crown of a pretender to the throne.

Shogun was the greatest mp experience of the totalwar franchise and had a thriving community where everyone knew everyone else on the battlefield.

Shogun:
Multiplayer Chat Foyer better than any that followed it.
Clan Campaings 50+ players.
Ability to create tournament rooms in game.
Great clan rivalries.
Amazing 4v4 battles that could be played on almost any map and still be balanced.
Player Ranking Ladders
Most balanced game to date
Units had the ability to walk or run without their ice skates
Maps were best designed of the series
Atmosphere was best of the series
Music was best of the series

Rome:
None of the above.

To many players Rome was the game of the series where creative assembly just gave up on multiplayer, it really was a shambles if you could watch the compeditive games of shogun or even mtw1 and compare them with rome there really is no comparison.

Anyway looking forward lets hope they do implement their own matchmaking service again like they had in shogun. It was perfect for the community simple yet functional. A chat foyer is a must tho, i couldent believe it when i found out etw and napoleon dident have one. sometimes ca can make very strange decisions which degrade the quality of their games for no apparent reason.

i didn't read and comprehend the entire thread, but you should know tomi, don't count yer chickens... etc.

anyhoo i hope it's good, but i don't hold a vigil or anything.

so so ugly t1! :)

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Originally Posted by t1master

i didn't read and comprehend the entire thread, but you should know tomi, don't count yer chickens... etc.

anyhoo i hope it's good, but i don't hold a vigil or anything.

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I am not smart enough to see anything but the best in everything :beam: