So I was thinking...

Wouldn't that be cool if factions emerged or re-emerged mid-campaign. Like the Mongols. Or say you kill off a faction but they come back later in the game. It might be possible to have them emerge based on specific conditions like for an example the capital city of the killed off faction revolted and thus remerged back into the game. It would be really ok if this was possible to mod into a game. I do not have any modding experience but if you guys don't feel like doing it I could make it happen. That is all I have to say on this matter.

"He alone, who owns the youth, gains the future."
Adolf Peter Hitler

My :2cents: here (another name for OT):

I just had the idea to make horses, chariots and elephants as siege equipement (but will lose cantabrian circle and wedge formation) so you can mount and unmount them in combat or deployment :grin:

~Jirisys (That would be good to replace the ability in MTW)

Factions could re-emerge in MTW but the feature doesn't seem to be present in RTW or MTW2. Although it is back in ETW, EB2 is based on MTW2, so I don't know if it is possible with the game engine. Emerging factions require a faction slot dedicated to them from the beginning, which is why they were never used in EB1, since they preferred to show as many factions as possible for the start date (for example the Yuehzi were removed because they weren't present on the map in 272BC).

Re-emerging factions are definitely worth considering if they are possible. But since I haven't heard of any RTW mods using them (and don't know any MTW2 mods) I'm not confident that it can be done at all.

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Originally Posted by jirisys

My :2cents: here (another name for OT):

I just had the idea to make horses, chariots and elephants as siege equipement (but will lose cantabrian circle and wedge formation) so you can mount and unmount them in combat or deployment :grin:

~Jirisys (That would be good to replace the ability in MTW)

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I'm almost certain that siege equipment is hardcoded, which would make this impossible. not a bad idea though

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Originally Posted by Nightbringer

I'm almost certain that siege equipment is hardcoded, which would make this impossible. not a bad idea though

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Wait... aren't you able to leave the katalpetioi and 1 mnai stone projector to become regular inf?

~Jirisys (KELTOY!)

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Originally Posted by Serious

Wouldn't that be cool if factions emerged or re-emerged mid-campaign.

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We've experimented with re-emerging factions, but haven't decided how we ought to use them. Some of the behavior we've seen with re-emergence makes it undesirable for "civilized" or settled factions. There may be ways to remedy those behaviors, and we'll continue to investigate.

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Originally Posted by Atilius

We've experimented with re-emerging factions, but haven't decided how we ought to use them. Some of the behavior we've seen with re-emergence makes it undesirable for "civilized" or settled factions. There may be ways to remedy those behaviors, and we'll continue to investigate.

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Are you saying you have gotten it to work, but with the AI acting strangely? I thought the ability of re-emerging factions was hard-coded for M2TW? I haven't seen any other mod be able to do even this, so forgive me if I remain skeptical.

Personally I was never a fan of the re-emerging factions, although certainly there are historical precedences for the EBII timeframe (Perseus of Macedon, late Seleucid pretenders, Viriathus of the Lusitanians, to an extent). What behaviour makes re-emergence for civilized factions a problem exactly?

The only problem i ever had with reappearing factions was when they would get several full stacks of troops a generation or two ahead.

How the hell do you hide armies that big and advanced in the shadows?

I can just picture the prince in exile cackling in some barn while sleeping in pig dung"Wait until they see the power of fully functional platemail hehehe!".

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Originally Posted by Atilius

We've experimented with re-emerging factions, but haven't decided how we ought to use them. Some of the behavior we've seen with re-emergence makes it undesirable for "civilized" or settled factions. There may be ways to remedy those behaviors, and we'll continue to investigate.

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This sounds promising. Some of the few things I like about ETW are: Amerindians, big map, dismountable cavalry, and faction re-emergence. The faction re-emergence feature, which means if the capital of a former faction revolted, that faction would re-emerge, made the game a lot more flexible in terms of RP purposes.

Another good reason for re-emergence is that if you noticed a certain faction got much too strong (i.e. Ptolemies), but didn't really want to conquer their empire, you could do certain strikes against certain parts of their empire that would allow the re-emergence of dead factions. With proper funding and military support, a once mighty empire would be broken apart into several quarreling states. And this isn't really an unrealistic feature, either.

I was under the impression that the only way for factions to re-emerge in M2TW is if they are set to "never die", which was an attribute only intended for the Papacy. The way it worked in MTW (if I understand correctly) is as follows: If a faction is destroyed whilst its family tree contains an heir who has not yet come of age, there's a good chance that once he does come of age, he will appear with an army carrying his previously deceased faction's banner. I'm not sure exactly how this differs from M2TW, but considering that the Papal States faction has no family tree (or does it?), I don't think it has anything to do with heirs. I've never actually played a campaign in which the Papacy was destroyed, so I can't really speak from any experience.

Oh, and my main point here is that, the way I understand things, in order for a faction to be able to re-emerge in M2TW, they must be set to "never die". Problem with that is that rather than having a situation where a recently destroyed faction has a chance to try and make a come-back at some point, you have a situation in which the faction will be continually popping up again and again over the course of the campaign. I'm not sure I like that.

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So I was thinking....

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Thats never a good sign.

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Originally Posted by Belisarius II

Are you saying you have gotten it to work, but with the AI acting strangely?

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I wouldn't say the behavior is strange, it's just inappropriate for some factions. We have some as yet untested ideas for dealing with it. We'll see how they work.

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Originally Posted by B_Ray

I was under the impression that the only way for factions to re-emerge in M2TW is if they are set to "never die", which was an attribute only intended for the Papacy.

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A faction can re-emerge if it's given the ability to horde.

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Originally Posted by B_Ray

Problem with that is... you have a situation in which the faction will be continually popping up again and again over the course of the campaign. I'm not sure I like that.

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It's possible to exercise strict control over when and how many times a faction re-emerges.

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Originally Posted by jirisys

Wait... aren't you able to leave the katalpetioi and 1 mnai stone projector to become regular inf?

~Jirisys (KELTOY!)

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Oh, i thought you meant siege equipment like you make when you siege a city, you mean artillery. I dont really see how that count be done because the guys with the artillery always act normally, its just that when engaged in close combat they automatically leave the artillery piece. sorry to be a downer.

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Originally Posted by Atilius

We'll see how they work.

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Best of luck, bro. Faction re-emergence is a feature that I personally consider invaluable. Any research into such a possibility can never be considered wasted.

As faction re-emergence has been confirmed as do-able in this thread, I have a quick question about it. From my understanding a faction re-emerges if their capital rebels, so is there any way for other cities to rebel to previously dead factions or is it hard-coded to just capital cities?