Borders, territory and military access

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Originally Posted by Populus Romanus

I would like to see it that if you enter the territory of a neutral state or an ally without having military access that there is an automatic declaration of war. That would actually make military access worth something for once. Furthermore, it makes sense. To accompany this, perhaps the AI could be made to value military access much more highly?

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Originally Posted by Ca Putt

you could have posted it here: What are the main things you want to see fixed from EB1 in EB2???

that's the appropriate thread.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

but I would like to add that the AI does get quite upset when you enter their territory in M2TW, they do not immediately declare war but they get pissed off. - in my first game I played HRE and by moveing my FL into the empire, I got a declaration of war from the Milanese :(
what I'd howeer find nice would be that the AI would honor the players Territory, or at least give a dialogue option to get them out(diplomat)

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Originally Posted by B_Ray

Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous that you can lose standing with an AI faction for passing through a corner of their territory, but they'll walk all over yours. But I'd be willing to bet that this sort of thing can't be modded.

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Just, so the dicussion leaves the FAQ thread and because it really is an interesting topic.

I do agree, one of the things I really appreciated about Empire and now Shogun 2 is that you couldn't march onto someone else's territory (and they couldn't march onto yours either) withouth either requesting and receiving military access or declaring war.

It's like "Hey, I'm not declaring war on you, my friend who I have trade rights with for decades now, really I'm not, I'm just gonna park a few armies in your territory and let them devastate your countryside. You have a problem with that? Well then you'll have to declare war, breaking our treaties and getting diplomatic penalties for that :P"

Just they probably wouldn't make the smiley...

It's a good addition, but I am pretty sure it's not possible. "Declaration of war when troops enter neutral territory" is probably something that can be scripted, but I don't know if the script can see whether military access has been granted. Also, there's a limit to how far we can mod the A.I. We can rebalance its priorities, but we cannot make it consider things the original programmers did not. So giving greater value to military access may be possible, but making it think twice before putting stacks on neutral ground is not.

Btw entering neutral territory was quite historically correct: Helvetae, Hannibal, Anabasis (in a way), most migrations...
Sometimes a sort of agreement was reached, other times the very act brought war, all seem covered by the way it is in RTW or M2TW...

well I think it's ok that they react to your trespassing, but it'd be useful to at least visit them with a diplomat and tell them to piss off, sadly i'm pretty sure that's not possible.(which is why i wrote it in the FAQ thread and did not openly suggest it). Or If attacking a neutral army on own soil would not be viewed as an act of aggression - no effect on reputation and immediately ceasefire possible but....

I'm pretty sure the M2TW AI already sort of does this. It might not incite war, but I'm pretty sure it does lower faction relations. Isn't that what the "Transgression" message is for? Heck, just building up troops in border towns can cause a negative reaction, and spur an arms race. I had a HRE game once where I had to be very careful with my French border. Having light border garrisons invited them to attack, while having heavy ones caused an arms buildup, and hurt our relationship. Eventually I settled on medium sized garrisons, and made sure not to move them around too much. After a while they decided I wasn't a threat, and concentrated on dealing with the English. If I'd had military access and a good reputation, they probably would have ignored me from the start.

well, that's quite understandable in M2TW, as military acess generally only given when you allready have marriage alliance

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Originally Posted by Arjos

Btw entering neutral territory was quite historically correct: Helvetae, Hannibal, Anabasis (in a way), most migrations...
Sometimes a sort of agreement was reached, other times the very act brought war, all seem covered by the way it is in RTW or M2TW...

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All of them negotiated some form of military access except Xenophon.

Bah Hannibal asked for some scouts, but with all the tribes in the area, hardly he gained access rights from everyone...
Senones and many Keltoi followed the rule that free land belonged to who gained control of it more or less...

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Originally Posted by Populus Romanus

All of them negotiated some form of military access except Xenophon.

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The later strategoi of the stranded "10000", of whom Cheirisophos and Xenophon were the most important, negotiated several access agreements with different tribes and peoples, as far as I know. Sometimes successful, sometimes not.