Merkel Is Getting Me All Hot And Bothered

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...83I0DN20120419

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"Islam is not part of our tradition and identity in Germany and so does not belong in Germany

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At the risk of Goodwininng this thread (And beleive me it is physically painfull not to)

Is this ok with everyone?

The people whom make up a country make up the identity. Identity is ever changing. So if more Mohammeds than Johns get born in Germany it will not doubt become part of the identity.

Does Germany have a right to protect it's heritage?

To a certain point I suppose. The line between protecting hertiage and xenophobia is a thin one though.

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Originally Posted by Reuters

...a campaign by an ultra-conservative Salafist Muslim group to hand out millions of free German translations of the Koran to non-Muslims.

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Such irony.

I am happy to welcome other cultures as soon as ours is welcomed in their heartlands. I think we are a long way off that position. Multi-ethnic? Fine. Multicultural? Tolerated at best. In areas of difference, the home teem wins.

~:smoking:

I'm interested in hearing the rhetoric about what Islam is and what it isn't. Doesn't it get confusing when non-Muslims continuously define what Islam is?

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Originally Posted by Hax

I'm interested in hearing the rhetoric about what Islam is and what it isn't. Doesn't it get confusing when non-Muslims continuously define what Islam is?

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Why, do you have to be a muslim to understand it?

Well, I'm not a Muslim. I'm just against rigidly defining Islam and telling Muslims how their own religion functions. I think it's up to them.

Doesn't mean that we can't form opinions about it and discuss it. If muslims have a problem with that, then, well, screw them.

Well, it's a fine line/slippery slope/add your cliché of choice.

But, you are quite right Strike, if everyone in Germany woke up a muslim then it would be a muslim country, but by the same measure, if everyone (or the vast majority) there now wants to resist it then surely this is just as fair, after all it's their country?

My view is that people should resist religion as much as they can, I don't care which one it is, a crutch is a crutch is a crutch.

Immigrants should assimilate to the host culture. In that process, there will be some blending of the immigrant culture with that of the host which is natural (Germany has great falafel stands); however, the process should be very lopsided. Germany should stand up to those who have no interest in assimilating.

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Originally Posted by Hax

Well, I'm not a Muslim. I'm just against rigidly defining Islam and telling Muslims how their own religion functions. I think it's up to them.

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Well, people are always telling me about my religion, and how I hate all non Christians and I think you're all evil, but I'm not.

So at least it's not just Islam.

"Islam is not part of our tradition and identity in Germany and so does not belong in Germany"

This statement is of course 100% correct. So long as there has been any concept of a German people or a German nation, Christianity is the only religion to have been a part of that.

Although this is most likely one of those xenophobic (nothing wrong with that) comments that European leaders throw about every once in a whlie to boost their popularity. Actions rarely follow from their words.

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Originally Posted by Rhyfhylwyr

"Islam is not part of our tradition and identity in Germany and so does not belong in Germany"

This statement is of course 100% correct. So long as there has been any concept of a German people or a German nation, Christianity is the only religion to have been a part of that.

Although this is most likely one of those xenophobic (nothing wrong with that) comments that European leaders throw about every once in a whlie to boost their popularity. Actions rarely follow from their words.

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Except for Germanic Paganism.

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Originally Posted by lars573

Except for Germanic Paganism.

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been any concept of a German people or a German nation

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tsk

It wasn't Merkel who said that, but the leading CDU member in the Bondstag.

That said, I wonder what it's even supposed to mean:

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"Islam is not part of our tradition and identity in Germany and so does not belong in Germany," Volker Kauder, head of Chancellor Angela Merkel's conservatives in parliament, told the Passauer Neue Presse.

"But Muslims do belong in Germany. As state citizens, of course, they enjoy their full rights," he added.

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I can only interpret this as meaning that it's okay for the traditional religion (which happens to be christianity) to promote itself in society and politics, and not for uppity newcomers. But that's guesswork; it might just be one of those things that politicians say only to attract fringe votes without elaborating on the statement, or even contradicting it in other speeches.

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Originally Posted by Kralizec

It wasn't Merkel who said that, but the leading CDU member in the Bondstag.

That said, I wonder what it's even supposed to mean:


I can only interpret this as meaning that it's okay for the traditional religion (which happens to be christianity) to promote itself in society and politics, and not for uppity newcomers. But that's guesswork; it might just be one of those things that politicians say only to attract fringe votes without elaborating on the statement, or even contradicting it in other speeches.

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To me that suggests, "you are welcome to come here, but once here don't complain about it."

That's a fair point, as far as it goes, if you don't like Saudi Arabia and want to live in Britain or France, don't then try to bring Saudi Arabia with you.

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Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger

Immigrants should assimilate to the host culture. In that process, there will be some blending of the immigrant culture with that of the host which is natural (Germany has great falafel stands); however, the process should be very lopsided. Germany should stand up to those who have no interest in assimilating.

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ooooo falafels.

What about islam?

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Originally Posted by Centurion1

tsk

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Both of those concepts predate Christianity, being as broad as they are.

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Originally Posted by lars573

Both of those concepts predate Christianity, being as broad as they are.

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Hardly.

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Originally Posted by Strike For The South

ooooo falafels.

What about islam?

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Bah! Falafels are nothing but a bastard son of the true greatness that is Kebab. By no doubt the greatest gift the middle Eastern many times muslim immigrants have given to Europe.

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Originally Posted by Kagemusha

Bah! Falafels are nothing but a bastard son of the true greatness that is Kebab. By no doubt the greatest gift the middle Eastern many times muslim immigrants have given to Europe.

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Only if you're drunk. Which begs the question how they could have arrisen in Muslim-held lands.

I'm sorry, but Kebabs are foul.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

I'm sorry, but Kebabs are foul.

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I don't know. It's a lot better than Mc Donalds. :shrug:

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Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios

I don't know. It's a lot better than Mc Donalds. :shrug:

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You mean the stuff I wouldn't feed my dog?

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

You mean the stuff I wouldn't feed my dog?

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You shouldn't feed your dog human food. It may make them sick.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

You mean the stuff I wouldn't feed my dog?

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If you mean you wouldn't feed Mc Donalds food to your dog, then I agree completely. Such a thing would be animal cruelty.

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Originally Posted by Vladimir

You shouldn't feed your dog human food. It may make them sick.

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Dogs aren't compulsory carnivores, by and large humans and dogs can live off the same diet. With the exception of certain veg, fungi and fruit that is; for instance chocolate and almonds may not go down that well. Neither can live off Mc Donalds, that's just trash and not actual food.

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Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios

I don't know. It's a lot better than Mc Donalds. :shrug:

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idk I've seen some pretty dodgy kebab shops.

At least you know an occassional McDonalds is unlikely to make you sick.

Why would ye be ateing anything anyway sure tis only time for more drink in the early house.

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Originally Posted by Kagemusha

Bah! Falafels are nothing but a bastard son of the true greatness that is Kebab. By no doubt the greatest gift the middle Eastern many times muslim immigrants have given to Europe.

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:thumbsup:
I'd almost say that this topic deserves its own thread, except that there'd be little to discuss - obviously all rational people are in agreement about this.

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Originally Posted by Strike For The South

ooooo falafels.

What about islam?

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Well, I would hazard a guess that this politician is using 'Islam' as shorthand for Islamic culture, or the Islamic lifestyle; you know, the same topic that has been the subject of countless backroom threads over burkas, Sharia, radicalization, multiculturalism, et cetera.

We are lucky in the US that the vast majority of our Muslim population is assimilated and well adjusted. Dearborn Michigan is a great example of what I highlighted in the above post - a community that reflects the cultural flavor of its immigrant population and an immigrant population that reflects the social norms of the greater community.

There are plenty of well assimilated Muslims in Europe, but there are also vast ghettos where Muslims come to enjoy the economic benefits of the European economy and social welfare systems but live essentially as if they were still in the Middle East. They have very little, if any, interaction with the greater host country, and show little interest in assimilation. They are just kind of... there.

This is the result of the strange mix of liberal immigration policies and multiculturalism that reflected the need for manual labor after the Second World War and European passive aggressive racism. That was fine for decades, but these days, declining host populations and rapidly increasing immigrant ones have a lot of traditionalists worried.

In my opinion, German culture and the larger white European culture in which it is a subset is unique and worth preserving. In the future, it does not need to be white, but it should still be European. Politicians over there should work to dismantle multiculturalism and modify immigration policies until the ghetto situation is rectified.

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Originally Posted by Rhyfhylwyr

idk I've seen some pretty dodgy kebab shops.

At least you know an occassional McDonalds is unlikely to make you sick.

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Except, a McDonald's has made me sick (food poisoning FTL), which no kebab shop has yet done. On the other hand, I've only had kebabs a handful of times (though I can't stand Mickey D's, so I haven't had their stuff all too frequently, either). Anyhow, the kebab I had from one hole-in-the-wall place in Spain was about the best food I've ever tasted.

Ajax