Merkel Is Getting Me All Hot And Bothered

[Hax]

Well, I'm not a Muslim. I'm just against rigidly defining Islam and telling Muslims how their own religion functions. I think it's up to them.

[rvg]

Doesn't mean that we can't form opinions about it and discuss it. If muslims have a problem with that, then, well, screw them.

[Ja'chyra]

Well, it's a fine line/slippery slope/add your cliché of choice.

But, you are quite right Strike, if everyone in Germany woke up a muslim then it would be a muslim country, but by the same measure, if everyone (or the vast majority) there now wants to resist it then surely this is just as fair, after all it's their country?

My view is that people should resist religion as much as they can, I don't care which one it is, a crutch is a crutch is a crutch.

[PanzerJaeger]

Immigrants should assimilate to the host culture. In that process, there will be some blending of the immigrant culture with that of the host which is natural (Germany has great falafel stands); however, the process should be very lopsided. Germany should stand up to those who have no interest in assimilating.

[Strike For The South]

Immigrants should assimilate to the host culture. In that process, there will be some blending of the immigrant culture with that of the host which is natural (Germany has great falafel stands); however, the process should be very lopsided. Germany should stand up to those who have no interest in assimilating.

ooooo falafels.

What about islam?

[Kagemusha]

ooooo falafels.

What about islam?

Bah! Falafels are nothing but a bastard son of the true greatness that is Kebab. By no doubt the greatest gift the middle Eastern many times muslim immigrants have given to Europe.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Bah! Falafels are nothing but a bastard son of the true greatness that is Kebab. By no doubt the greatest gift the middle Eastern many times muslim immigrants have given to Europe.

Only if you're drunk. Which begs the question how they could have arrisen in Muslim-held lands.

I'm sorry, but Kebabs are foul.

[Kralizec]

Bah! Falafels are nothing but a bastard son of the true greatness that is Kebab. By no doubt the greatest gift the middle Eastern many times muslim immigrants have given to Europe.

I'd almost say that this topic deserves its own thread, except that there'd be little to discuss - obviously all rational people are in agreement about this.

[PanzerJaeger]

ooooo falafels.

What about islam?

Well, I would hazard a guess that this politician is using 'Islam' as shorthand for Islamic culture, or the Islamic lifestyle; you know, the same topic that has been the subject of countless backroom threads over burkas, Sharia, radicalization, multiculturalism, et cetera.

We are lucky in the US that the vast majority of our Muslim population is assimilated and well adjusted. Dearborn Michigan is a great example of what I highlighted in the above post - a community that reflects the cultural flavor of its immigrant population and an immigrant population that reflects the social norms of the greater community.

There are plenty of well assimilated Muslims in Europe, but there are also vast ghettos where Muslims come to enjoy the economic benefits of the European economy and social welfare systems but live essentially as if they were still in the Middle East. They have very little, if any, interaction with the greater host country, and show little interest in assimilation. They are just kind of... there.

This is the result of the strange mix of liberal immigration policies and multiculturalism that reflected the need for manual labor after the Second World War and European passive aggressive racism. That was fine for decades, but these days, declining host populations and rapidly increasing immigrant ones have a lot of traditionalists worried.

In my opinion, German culture and the larger white European culture in which it is a subset is unique and worth preserving. In the future, it does not need to be white, but it should still be European. Politicians over there should work to dismantle multiculturalism and modify immigration policies until the ghetto situation is rectified.

[Kralizec]

In my opinion, German culture and the larger white European culture in which it is a subset is unique and worth preserving. In the future, it does not need to be white, but it should still be European. Politicians over there should work to dismantle multiculturalism and modify immigration policies until the ghetto situation is rectified.

I largely agree with most your post, but I quoted this part because it's something that's been bothering me for a while now.

People usually frame the issue as a cultural issue, and speak of "western culture". But the unspoken assumption is that stuff like democracy and political rights are cultural things. If we were to stop counting those as cultural things, the cultural overlap between Europeans would be a lot smaller. Japan is sometimes referred to as a western, or at least westernised country - largely because it has adopted free market policies and constitutional democracy. Genuine cultural differences are casually dismissed as idiosyncracies.

In a sense you could consider the political rights western people nowadays enjoy a cultural development of the past 3 centuries or so. But the point I'm trying to make is that it should be considered a class apart. It's the only part of our cultural heritage that is seriously worth fighting for - I would not, for example, partake in a protest to protect traditional Dutch cuisine (probably a bad example).

In my opinion a lot of these debates about issues surrounding Islam and foreign cultures in general are made more complicated than they should be; truth suffers to much from analysis. People ought to respect the law and be accorded the same rights as everyone else, period. Cultural practices that conflict should not be sanctioned or accommodated in anyway, and any other cultural practices and customs are utterly irrelevant. On the face of it this might seem like an extremely obvious position to take, yet sadly, most discussions get so bogged down in particularites of cultures that such basic tenets are completely out of sight.

[Fragony]

Immigrants should assimilate to the host culture. In that process, there will be some blending of the immigrant culture with that of the host which is natural (Germany has great falafel stands); however, the process should be very lopsided. Germany should stand up to those who have no interest in assimilating.

No need really, they can be what they want to be as long as they don't impose themselves. The worst integrated group are the Chinese, I don't mind

[Major Robert Dump]

Islam won Europe without firing a shot. GG.

[Husar]

The what?

Just a few days ago I read about how turks are often still not accepted and have to listen to germans using slurs against them, don't feel accepted etc. and when I come to this little island called Backroom it's somehow so that the germans have lost out to the immigrants....

Someone has a misconception of reality it seems.

Please explain, I want to know how the turks/islam have me in their hands.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Well, I'm not a Muslim. I'm just against rigidly defining Islam and telling Muslims how their own religion functions. I think it's up to them.

Well, people are always telling me about my religion, and how I hate all non Christians and I think you're all evil, but I'm not.

So at least it's not just Islam.

[Rhyfelwyr]

"Islam is not part of our tradition and identity in Germany and so does not belong in Germany"

This statement is of course 100% correct. So long as there has been any concept of a German people or a German nation, Christianity is the only religion to have been a part of that.

Although this is most likely one of those xenophobic (nothing wrong with that) comments that European leaders throw about every once in a whlie to boost their popularity. Actions rarely follow from their words.

[lars573]

"Islam is not part of our tradition and identity in Germany and so does not belong in Germany"

This statement is of course 100% correct. So long as there has been any concept of a German people or a German nation, Christianity is the only religion to have been a part of that.

Although this is most likely one of those xenophobic (nothing wrong with that) comments that European leaders throw about every once in a whlie to boost their popularity. Actions rarely follow from their words.

Except for Germanic Paganism.

[Centurion1]

Except for Germanic Paganism.

been any concept of a German people or a German nation

tsk

[Kralizec]

It wasn't Merkel who said that, but the leading CDU member in the Bondstag.

That said, I wonder what it's even supposed to mean:

"Islam is not part of our tradition and identity in Germany and so does not belong in Germany," Volker Kauder, head of Chancellor Angela Merkel's conservatives in parliament, told the Passauer Neue Presse.

"But Muslims do belong in Germany. As state citizens, of course, they enjoy their full rights," he added.

I can only interpret this as meaning that it's okay for the traditional religion (which happens to be christianity) to promote itself in society and politics, and not for uppity newcomers. But that's guesswork; it might just be one of those things that politicians say only to attract fringe votes without elaborating on the statement, or even contradicting it in other speeches.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

It wasn't Merkel who said that, but the leading CDU member in the Bondstag.

That said, I wonder what it's even supposed to mean:


I can only interpret this as meaning that it's okay for the traditional religion (which happens to be christianity) to promote itself in society and politics, and not for uppity newcomers. But that's guesswork; it might just be one of those things that politicians say only to attract fringe votes without elaborating on the statement, or even contradicting it in other speeches.

To me that suggests, "you are welcome to come here, but once here don't complain about it."

That's a fair point, as far as it goes, if you don't like Saudi Arabia and want to live in Britain or France, don't then try to bring Saudi Arabia with you.

[lars573]

tsk

Both of those concepts predate Christianity, being as broad as they are.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Both of those concepts predate Christianity, being as broad as they are.

Hardly.

[Centurion1]

Both of those concepts predate Christianity, being as broad as they are.

may want to do some reading on the matter first