RTW II and Modding: good news?

In an interview with Eurogamer, CA studio director Mike Simpson talks about the modding possibilities of Rome Total War II.

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There's a whole group of them who want more modding tools and for the game to be more open from that point of view," said Simpson, "and we're certainly working on that, to try and get as close as we want to what they want.

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"As we develop our own tools it becomes easier for us to support modders, so we're intending to do that."

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This looks promising, no?

Furthermore it seems that editing maps will very much be possible this time around!

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Whether those map editing tools will be included in the Rome 2 box - "we haven't specifically said that yet", Simpson said. "But I'd be surprised if that wasn't the case."

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Also it seems the mod summit that CA will hold will not only be for the 'recent' releases of ETW and STWII, but will also include information on RTWII. And it appears it will also be hold so that CA can get feedback from the modders for RTWII!

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"We haven't really fleshed out what we can and can't do from a modding point of view," Simpson went on. "We're going to spend some more time actually talking to the modder groups and try to come up with a plan that actually delivers them what they need rather than what we think they need, which isn't necessarily the same thing."

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The full article with much more on information, such as how they will balance history and gameplay/cinematics, on multiplayer and an RTW I-RTW II comparison,... see here: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...-2-information

Excellent news! If they keep their word, I will buy this as soon as I can afford it (as opposed to waiting till it is 50%+ off and buying it, like I have with the last few)!
Sounds like they may finally be doing things right! I don't care if their game is mediocre, as long as they give me the tools to make it awesome!

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Originally Posted by Vuk

Excellent news! If they keep their word, I will buy this as soon as I can afford it (as opposed to waiting till it is 50%+ off and buying it, like I have with the last few)!
Sounds like they may finally be doing things right! I don't care if their game is mediocre, as long as they give me the tools to make it awesome!

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Yes I'm actually thinking this might indeed end up being a sure to get for me. ~:)

if only i could believe it..
sorry guys, very sceptical yet on this, but i'll be all the more enthusiastic if it should prove true!

They say the same thing with every game, and with every game, modding gets harder and proves to be an even bigger pain for those interested in it. Statements are put out that promise much more modding capability which are almost always changed before release. I see no reason this will be any different.

By all means i'd love for CA to prove me wrong but I'll believe it when i see it.

At least this time they are organizing this modding summit, something I believe they never did before. It seems CA is unhappy with the current state of modding. Until Empire the community could always hack their way into the game and produce the desired total conversion mods, even without the ever promised tools, so there was no need for CA to really release them.
And although I remember an article from 2003 that, the never released, mod tolls will ship with R:TW, the game itself turned out to be as modable as they said so I don't consider their past record as that bad.

I don't know... Haven't played anything since M2TW but it seems that Empire and Shogun 2 had worse modding capabilities than RTW or M2TW.

I think modding isn't really on the list of priorities for big guys anymore. Not only it takes funds to make a game more modding friendly, it limits the DLC's sales - who's gonna buy a new skin when they can get 99 better looking ones for free?

Well should they advertise a moddable R2TW, forget about DLCs, the vanilla sales would go through the roof!
Question is: will they realize that? :D

Point is, vanilla sales aren't as profitable as DLC sales.

You spend a few years and millions of creating a game, hyping it, distributing it, updating and supporting it. And you sell it for 50-60 dollars/euros.

Then you have a few guys sit at their computers for a few weeks and you sell that for 2-3 dollars/euros.

If you sold the entire content of the game as a DLC, you'd probably get about 500-600 dollars, if not more. That's how much more profitable DLC's are, and no big company is gonna shy away from them. Companies also hate the fact that they get their money at the beginning and then have to support to product for free for a very long time. So, micro transactions are the way to go.

Also, DLC's and modding are often conflicting - modders need to have a relatively stable base to build on, constant minor changes and additions don't help, which in the end also helps the decision to not really care about modding.

To conclude, anything that helps DLC sales = good, anything that may be detrimental, however minute = bad.

That's already the case though...

What matters are the sales in the first months, that's what should be pushed for...
Later the game will cost as much as a DLC, but people would be interested in buying it...

Right now, there are few people buying the vanilla and even less buying the DLCs...

There will indeed be DLC for RTWII I seem to remember reading that at least.

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Originally Posted by Sarmatian

Also, DLC's and modding are often conflicting - modders need to have a relatively stable base to build on, constant minor changes and additions don't help, which in the end also helps the decision to not really care about modding.

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Paradox Interactive patches it's games at least twice per month and still, there is a thriving modding community there. I do think we will see modding tools. That Shogun 2 level editor shows they are willing to help the modders out.

I think Skyrim stands out as an excellent example of a game that is both very mod-able, and commercially successful. With fallout and oblivion the DLC still sold well, despite the high levels of modding, and I would hazard a guess the same will be true for Skyrim. No, they don't release skin pack and expect them to sell, but the Total War franchise has had large scale dlc/expansions, such as Fall of the Samurai, Barbarian Invasion, Kingdoms, etc...

As such, I think it would be quite financially feasible for them to make a highly modifiable game. However, I am less sure that most companies realize this, and the last few Total War games have made me doubt that Sega does. Sega games in general seem to be very opposed to the concept, and Sega's acquisition of CA marked the change in the Total War series.

Basically, I doubt Sega will let CA make the game very modifiable, even if CA wanted to do so.

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Originally Posted by rickinator9

Paradox Interactive patches it's games at least twice per month and still, there is a thriving modding community there. I do think we will see modding tools. That Shogun 2 level editor shows they are willing to help the modders out.

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Patching and adding content aren't really the same thing.

And Paradox doesn't really patches its games twice a month. Maybe once a month for the first 6 months or so and then much, much rarer.

We'll see just how well Paradox new DLC policy will work with modding. I'm hoping for the best but I'm not really convinced.

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Originally Posted by Nightbringer

I think Skyrim stands out as an excellent example of a game that is both very mod-able, and commercially successful. With fallout and oblivion the DLC still sold well, despite the high levels of modding, and I would hazard a guess the same will be true for Skyrim. No, they don't release skin pack and expect them to sell, but the Total War franchise has had large scale dlc/expansions, such as Fall of the Samurai, Barbarian Invasion, Kingdoms, etc...

As such, I think it would be quite financially feasible for them to make a highly modifiable game. However, I am less sure that most companies realize this, and the last few Total War games have made me doubt that Sega does. Sega games in general seem to be very opposed to the concept, and Sega's acquisition of CA marked the change in the Total War series.

Basically, I doubt Sega will let CA make the game very modifiable, even if CA wanted to do so.

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Expansion packs are quite different - they are large, they add much content to the game at once and they are are, in 99% of the cases, there's one or two for any game.

Modders can adjust and actually create content before anything else comes, while when they sold piecemeal it's another situation totally. Kind of like CIV V - why would they want their game moddable so that someone can make a Babylonian civilization (like they could in CIV IV) when they can make it and sell for 0.99?

There are some semi-successful example, yes, but overall the situation is poor and is deteriorating quickly. When even a developer like Paradox, whose arguably main selling point is the ability to easy mod their games without practically any tools or knowledge is going to go the DLC route, it speaks volumes. Supposedly, they have found a fantastic way to have both DLC and modding. I'm not very convinced but we'll see in a year or two.

Here's to hope but CA's prior record and industry trends don't give much hope

I don't want to derail this too much so I will keep this brief. The focus should be on CA and R2 afterall :yes:

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Originally Posted by Sarmatian

Patching and adding content aren't really the same thing.

And Paradox doesn't really patches its games twice a month. Maybe once a month for the first 6 months or so and then much, much rarer.

We'll see just how well Paradox new DLC policy will work with modding. I'm hoping for the best but I'm not really convinced.

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My own experience modding Crusader Kings 2 through 2 content patches and one DLC wave has been pretty positive, but that is largely due to how Paradox structures their game engine. When a content patch breaks my mod I can easily port over my changes inside a few hours due to how easy modding files actually is. If i didn't have so much stuff going on, I could do it within 15 minutes. That said, however, each extensive content patch/hotfix that makes huge changes to the game has still effectively broken my mod.

The strength of paradox comes from the fact that the engine is rather flexible in what it allows you to do from a modding standpoint. It's also relatively easy to go in and fix problems that crop up from new DLC coming in. CA doesn't have that strength at all, and from what i saw with past games they've been moving to make modding to the game increasingly difficult.

If CA doesn't have that stable base that a game like CK2 has but releases lots of content/DLC patches, I can foresee modding being an incredible pain and something only the most dedicated attempt.

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Originally Posted by Sarmatian

Modders can adjust and actually create content before anything else comes, while when they sold piecemeal it's another situation totally. Kind of like CIV V - why would they want their game moddable so that someone can make a Babylonian civilization (like they could in CIV IV) when they can make it and sell for 0.99?

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CA has more resources available than the largest mods, a huge team of experienced people working fulltime with access to the source code, while the modding community will need some time to get accustomed to the new engine. They can produce some quality DLC like their Peninsula Campaign or Rise of the Samurai addon months before any similar mods are ready. If CA adds a few new features the DLC might even become the base for mods later.
Not sure about the prospects of their unit or faction packs, but I guess they can still sell them to the multiplayer community. Also they should have the huge number of non hardcore fans that bought their games but never cared for mods as potentinial customers for quick and cheap DLC. Large R:TW mods had a few tenthousand downloads while CA sold more than a million copies. Those can be reached through ingame or Steam advertising. Mods can help to keep a game alive and sell copies longs after the big money with DLC is already made.

For the record I agree with those who are saying moddability + extensive overhaul DLCs is the way to go for CA. In my opinion it gets rid of the worst of both worlds: 1) no more limitations on the fan-base's imagination 2) no more stupid 3$ skin/unit/blood DLCs.

Major DLCs equivalent to 'Rise of the Samurai' won't see sales hindered much, if at all, by modding. What it will get rid of is the nickel-and-dime DLCs that are just an insult to the fans to begin with. The truth is, if CA sets their mind towards making a DLC expansion such as 'Rise of the Samurai', modders will only embellish their hard work as they did in the days of old-- ie: merging Kingdoms Campaign Factions in MTWII mods, or by borrowing BI or Alex features in RTW mods!

CA has nothing to fear from allowing a modding community, who will only serve to make their work all the more fun and polished, to exist! Modders never work against a dev team since they are ultimately just modifying their initial base-material to begin with! If your DLC is worth being offered to a loyal fan base a modder can do nothing but make it all the greater, and free of charge.

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Originally Posted by aristotlol

For the record I agree with those who are saying moddability + extensive overhaul DLCs is the way to go

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So say we all.