Rebel Diamyo?

I was planning to invade a rebel held province, but decided to send in my emissary first just to see what they had. I was suprised to find that they had a body guard unit. I checked the name of the daimyo, and it was Mori. I should have checked and written down both names, but did not. He was definitely rebel. A grey unit in a rebel stack in a rebel province. I looked at all the Mori held provinces I could see, but saw no daimyo in their territories. However, I could not see all of them.

When I invaded, there was no sign of a daimyo on the battle field. The Mori daimyo turned up later on Mori territory. Wierd.

I recall a game where I had caused a rebellion in a rivals' province and then invaded the next turn. The rival faction sent an army to crush the rebellion, so a three-way battle ensued. The rebels actually had a daimyo as leader.

Three-way battles are a lot of fun when all three armies are rivals...you don't get that very often.

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Originally Posted by Brandy Blue

I was planning to invade a rebel held province, but decided to send in my emissary first just to see what they had. I was suprised to find that they had a body guard unit. I checked the name of the daimyo, and it was Mori. I should have checked and written down both names, but did not. He was definitely rebel. A grey unit in a rebel stack in a rebel province. I looked at all the Mori held provinces I could see, but saw no daimyo in their territories. However, I could not see all of them.

When I invaded, there was no sign of a daimyo on the battle field. The Mori daimyo turned up later on Mori territory. Wierd.

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I have had some similer occurences with Daimyo on the Map. Usually ( with me ), two Daimyo appear on the Map, although one disappears the next turn ( or is not present when your army moves in ). I believe this is a bug based around the start and finish positions of the said unit/s, or just AI misinformation. Armies also make attacks and then withdraw without combat sometimes. On these occasions you may ( or may not ) receive a message confirming this ( Bug / "Fog of War" ?).

I believe your instance above may reflect an attack on the Rebel province by the Mori Daimyo, who then chose to withdraw, although why he was there for a turn ( like in my example above ), I don't know. That the units you saw were grey, was possibley a bug ( see below ) or just deliberate misinformation by the AI (!).

Once whilst attacking the sole remaining ememy Damiyo's final army in it's last remaining province, I had a view of various ememy reinforcements arriving. The oddity was that their banners were firstly the colour of the last Daimyo, they then changed to White (!), then to various colours ( the minor clans ), before routing ( if I recall correctly ) !! The AI program does some strange things...

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Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai

I recall a game where I had caused a rebellion in a rivals' province and then invaded the next turn. The rival faction sent an army to crush the rebellion, so a three-way battle ensued. The rebels actually had a daimyo as leader. .

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I've never seen that before! I wonder if you could send an emissary to it and propose an Alliance ?

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Three-way battles are a lot of fun when all three armies are rivals...you don't get that very often.

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I have only ever had 2 three-way battles in STW ( plus 1 four-way one in MTW ). One had an "Ally", and one did not ( the MTW one had two "Allies" ). I always presume the "Ally" is going to attack me and manouvre accordingly. I won all three thankfully, but lost the province in the MTW one as I had less losses than my single surviving "Ally" ( Italy ) after the other "Ally"
( Germany ) had been completley routed off of the field by our enemy ( France ); this despite me attacking Italy and driving most of his units from the field before the battle ended ( time limit ?! ). So annoying !

You defeated (mostly) the Italians and they still got the province? Only a computer could think that makes sense. I take it you marched right in next year and set the record straight by thrashing those no good province grabbers.

These wierd little bugs (or whatever) do make life more interesting. I just hope I don't find out one day that my daimyo has joined the rebels!

3+ army battles are fun. (I only saw a four way once.) I remember once trapping my ally on a bridge between me and the enemy. He kept routing back and forth, unable to esacape in either direction. Another time I attacked my ally in the rear after many of his troops were comitted to attacking the enemy. That was way too easy so I now have an iron rule against attacking allies on the battle field.

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I wonder if you could send an emissary to it and propose an Alliance ?

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I might have tried that but the rebel stack did not show that a Daimyo was present on the campaign map. It was only after I sent my troops in and got to the battle map that I saw the rebel Daimyo. And he was smart, too! He stood off to the side and let my army and the other factions army fight it out before attempting to engage....didn't do him any good though....:laugh4:

Huh. I've never heard of that happening before; certainly I myself have never seen it!

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Originally Posted by DEB8

I have only ever had 2 three-way battles in STW ( plus 1 four-way one in MTW ). One had an "Ally", and one did not ( the MTW one had two "Allies" ). I always presume the "Ally" is going to attack me and manouvre accordingly. I won all three thankfully, but lost the province in the MTW one as I had less losses than my single surviving "Ally" ( Italy ) after the other "Ally"
( Germany ) had been completley routed off of the field by our enemy ( France ); this despite me attacking Italy and driving most of his units from the field before the battle ended ( time limit ?! ). So annoying !

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Originally Posted by Brandy Blue

You defeated (mostly) the Italians and they still got the province? Only a computer could think that makes sense. I take it you marched right in next year and set the record straight by thrashing those no good province grabbers.

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The rule in MTW (and I believe STW as well) is that the allied army with the most surviving troops at the end of the battle gets the province. It's maybe not "fair" per se, but I understand the logic behind it.

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Originally Posted by Brandy Blue

Another time I attacked my ally in the rear after many of his troops were comitted to attacking the enemy. That was way too easy so I now have an iron rule against attacking allies on the battle field.

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Yeah, I too early on established a self-imposed rule to not attack an ally during a battle. It's just too easy too pull off, and too much of an exploit IMO.

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Originally Posted by Brandy Blue

You defeated (mostly) the Italians and they still got the province? Only a computer could think that makes sense.

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You're so right. That said, some human/s programed it..... I think the logic was based on me losing less troops than the Italians - go figure...

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I take it you marched right in next year and set the record straight by thrashing those no good province grabbers.

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Afraid not, not enough troops to attack with and defend my province/s from attack ( from elsewhere ) also. I got it after a while though...

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3+ army battles are fun. (I only saw a four way once.) I remember once trapping my ally on a bridge between me and the enemy. He kept routing back and forth, unable to esacape in either direction. Another time I attacked my ally in the rear after many of his troops were comitted to attacking the enemy. That was way too easy so I now have an iron rule against attacking allies on the battle field.

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I tend not to do so on principal; unless I only made/accepted an Alliance to enable me to do just that, as retaliation for a piece of AI skulduggery!! I find it best to lag behind when advancing, so you can make sure you can attack the Ally in the rear and they can't do so to you!

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Originally Posted by Martok

The rule in MTW (and I believe STW as well) is that the allied army with the most surviving troops at the end of the battle gets the province. It's maybe not "fair" per se, but I understand the logic behind it.

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Then something went wrong, because I definitely had more troops left on the battlefield after the battle than the Italians. Perhaps they they had more survivors when the routed troops were taken into account ( but I doubt it )..... Maybe they had some reinforcements who choose not to enter the battlefield or routed before I saw / engaged them. That might have made a difference to the numbers I guess. Ah well... So much for winning the Battle !!

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Originally Posted by DEB8

Then something went wrong, because I definitely had more troops left on the battlefield after the battle than the Italians. Perhaps they they had more survivors when the routed troops were taken into account ( but I doubt it )..... Maybe they had some reinforcements who choose not to enter the battlefield or routed before I saw / engaged them. That might have made a difference to the numbers I guess. Ah well... So much for winning the Battle !!

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I have an idea. (probably wrong) Maybe the Italians came before than your faction's turn queue. (Starting from Rebels) So its like they attacked first and you just joined in after. I know it shows that you always start first, but it may be forgotten to put on this issue.

I've never seen it before either..

Maybe, there was a Heavy Cavalry unit only 11 men left. And its name was "Mori" as a quincidence.. But no, its too many.

Does it have Daimyo Shape on campaign map? (On the back of the horse)

In my case, definitely a Daimyo. General + hatamoto....11 men. All the other rebel units were at full strength so I doubt this was a broken heavy cav unit. And I don't believe a rebellion ever gets cavalry. Troops left over when another clan is eliminated, yes, but not an organic rebellion.

I believe it's a bug. On very rare occasions I've had an extra hatamoto unit in a stack - probably related to that.

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I believe it's a bug

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More than likely.....but it's one of those rare times when a bug adds a whole new dimension to a battle that's actually fun.