Please EB Moderators, why EB2 could be not Repetitive !

hello to all.

a think came to my mind, that, why the EB2 Moderators again repeated the EB1 in EB2?!
because Medieval2's graphic is not that significant, and, more important Rome2 is in that Period too!

so why again in 27 BC ?!! why same game ?!


a better thought came to my mind that, in Total war, they never created in the Classical or more ancient periods. like 1500 BC-400 BC!
you know, we had greater and more interesting Civilizations, like Assyrians-Hurrians-Hittyans-Ancient Egypt-ELAM-MITANNI-Babylons-MEDIA(Mada-Medes)- & ....etc.

i know a mod "Rise Of Persia" was made but it was limited and very little worked and not significant like EB.

so whats your Idea ?!

and if this Idea is better, so would the Moderators of EBII listen and do that and create a more ancient total war or better say EB Near East Total War?!
i hope so! because original Total War builders dont pay much attention to general history, only the greeks! and my only hope is EB moderators !!

I think it is far too late for the team to change directions now.

but how they could not even See of Rome 2 coming ?!!

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

First of all, I think many people realised that Rome II was inevitable, considering that Medieval II and Shogun II were released prior.

Medieval II's graphics may not appear too disimilar to those of Rome, however the team has had some very skilled people in the past who have worked to improve them. Thus we have the Graphic Enhancing Beta mod which improves the graphics above and beyond the original Medieval II graphics. The level of texture employed in EBII is superior to Medieval II, instead of re-using the same textures for a wide variety of units our 2D and 3D artists, in collaboration with the historians, have tailored the textures to fit each faction. If in doubt please take a look at the sneak peak thread and tell us if you think the graphics are of the same level as MTW II or if, as we hope, you think they are better.

The timeframe 272BC-AD14 provides us with a wide variety of culturally distinct factions. Even among broad cultural groups like "Celts" and Greeks you can find significant differences which make each faction unique. The Boii, for example, are Celts but very distinct from the Aedui, whilst the Pritanoi and Arevaci are even more so. If we created a mod which deals with previous time periods we would have huge difficulties; imagine a game set in the early Near East Iron Age, you would only have a handful of factions (Lydia, Assyria, Babylon, Egypt, Media, Phoenicia) and you couldn't have any factions in temperate Europe as we don't know what people were referring to themselves as in this region at this time. Likewise if you set the game after AD14 the only factions really worth playing would be Rome and Parthia. The timeframe 272BC-AD14 gives us plenty of variety and we don't need to worry about the problems of re-emerging factions as we would for say the days of the Assyrian Empire.

If anything, as we gaze back on EB, we find it was inaccurate in many places. We have therefore set ourselves the mission to make a mod with is historically accurate par excellence.

Rome II will have flashier graphics, naval and amphibious battles, it will have greater levels of eye candy and a much bigger tactical screen. However, we believe it will lack depth. EBII has the same timeframe, but it has more units, it has more factions, it has more styles of government, it has more information for the fans of historical accuracy (currently the amount of text which has been written for Celtic factions stands at around 150,000 words). We are filling in gaps from EB, thus you will have a real choice of Illyrian, Indian, proto-Slavic and north African units.

If people wish to play Rome II then they are welcome to, and we wish the Creative Assembly all the best in their efforts. However the EB project was never intended to be popular, it was intended to be an historically accurate representation of the years noted above.

EB doesn't built Toyotas, we build Bentleys,

Finally, you have to pay for Rome II and purchase DLCs.... Europa Barbarorum II is free and your welcome to it!

The concept of EB is to rework the game to make the 'barbarian' factions, and afterwards the ancient world, more accurately depicted. Your question should therefore be: why hasn't any modding team done this.

thank you, im convinced a little
but if not in classical period, it could be in sassandis periods that you have documents about barbarians too
you know, i'd like anything but not repitetive!! because it will be three times !!! EB 1 EB 2 ROME 2 !!!!!

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Originally Posted by Aram of Mada

hello to all.

a think came to my mind, that, why the EB2 Moderators again repeated the EB1 in EB2?!
because Medieval2's graphic is not that significant, and, more important Rome2 is in that Period too!

so why again in 27 BC ?!! why same game ?!


a better thought came to my mind that, in Total war, they never created in the Classical or more ancient periods. like 1500 BC-400 BC!
you know, we had greater and more interesting Civilizations, like Assyrians-Hurrians-Hittyans-Ancient Egypt-ELAM-MITANNI-Babylons-MEDIA(Mada-Medes)- & ....etc.

i know a mod "Rise Of Persia" was made but it was limited and very little worked and not significant like EB.

so whats your Idea ?!

and if this Idea is better, so would the Moderators of EBII listen and do that and create a more ancient total war or better say EB Near East Total War?!
i hope so! because original Total War builders dont pay much attention to general history, only the greeks! and my only hope is EB moderators !!

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Just to take your suggestion at face value (I don't believe for a second that the EBII team would scrap their work thus far on their brilliant mod, nor would I want them to do so), if you wanted to put together your own mod, two dates that might be interesting for a pre-EB mod that included Acheamenid(sp?) Persia would probably be 559 (Rise of Persia’s start date) and somewhere between 366-360 BC. The problem with any other dates is the overwhelming size of the Acheamenid Empire, as Brennus pointed out.

In, for instance, 364 B.C. the Persian Empire would be going through the Satrap’s Revolt. This would open up a large number of potential “successor states” (I’m not sure what to call them: the Persian Empire hasn’t been either De Jure or De Facto dissolved yet.) while at the same time, weakening Persia enough that it doesn’t simply walk over everyone.

A reasonably-sized map would include Italy up to the Alps and North-Western Africa (including the Baleares but not Iberia), extending either to or beyond the Indus Valley.

A faction list (w/ victory conditions) that I put together in a couple hours would probably look something like this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Western Mediterranean:

Cisalpine Boii (or a more worthy tribe/kingdom of Cisalpine Gaul)
VCs: Conquer most of Italy up to Campania
One or more Etruscan city-states/leagues
VCs: Conquer most of Italy up tp Campania
SPQR
VCs: Conquer most of Italy south of the Arno-Rubicon, possibly sections of Epirus/Illyria
Samnites
VCs: Conquer most of Italy south of the Arno-Rubicon, possibly sections of Epirus/Illyria
Syracuse
VCs: Conquer Sicily, Southern Italy including Campania and the Islands of the Mediterranean, possibly North Africa
Qarthadast

Hellas:
Thessalian League
VCs: Defeat Macedon and the other Greek Leagues, conquer Greece + Ionia, possibly Anatolia
Chalcidean League
VCs: Defeat Macedon and the other Greek Leagues, conquer Greece + Ionia, possibly Anatolia
Boeotian League
VCs: Defeat Macedon and the other Greek Leagues, conquer Greece + Ionia, possibly Anatolia
2nd Athenian Naval Confederacy
VCs: Defeat Macedon and the other Greek Leagues, conquer Greece + Ionia, possibly Anatolia
Peloponnesian League
VCs: Defeat Macedon and the other Greek Leagues, conquer Greece + Ionia, possibly Anatolia

Balkans:
Macedonia
VCs: Conquer Thrace, Illyria, Greece and Anatolia
Getai/Odrysian Kingdom
VCs: Conquer Macedonia, the Dardanian Kingdom, possibly Hellespontine Phrygia
Dardanian Kingdom
VCs: Conquer Macedonia, the Odrysian Kingdom, possibly Hellespontine Phrygia


Anatolia:
Realm of Datames
VCs: Conquer Anatolia, Thrace, Cyprus and Armenia
Realm of Mausolos
VCs: Conquer the Aegean Islands, Cyprus, Western and Southern Anatolia and Thrace
Realm of Orontes
VCs: Conquer Anatolia, Syria,, Cyprus Yehud, Babylonia, Media and Persia
Realm of Artabazus
VCs: Conquer Western, Central and Northern Anatolia, Thrace and the Aegean Islands
Realm of Evagoras
VCs: Conquer Southern Asia Minor, Phoenicia, Yehud and the Aegean Islands

Eastern Mediterranean (Syria, Phoenicia, Palestine, Eastern Africa):
Kemet
VCs: Conquer Nubia, Yehud, Syria and Cyprus
Kingdom of Tyre
VCs: Conquer Yehud, Syria, Cyprus and Qarthadast
Kingdom of Napata
VCs: Conquer Egypt, Western Arabia and Yehud

“Upper Asia”
Realm of Artaxerxes
VCs: Control Persia, the Upper Satrapies, Armenia, Syria, Anatolia, Phoenicia, Yehud, Egypt and the Hindu Kush.
(There could possibly be a breakaway faction in the Upper Satrapies, since these regions were loosely under the control of the Persian Shahanshah. Just as Baktria wasn’t De Jure independent in 272, but was still a faction).
Saka/Dahae
VCs: Control the Upper Satrapies, Persia and the Hindu Kush

India:
Maghada
VCs: Control the Ganges, the Indus and the Hindu Kush
3-4 “Janapada” kingdoms in the Punjab and Sindh.
VCs: Control the Ganges and the Indus

Of course, different govt buildings could be used to tweak the factions’ relative standing. For instance, the govt building in Yehud (which would probably start off under the control of the “Realm of Artaxerxes”) would probably be the equivalent of a Type 3 or 4 govt from EBI. So, Yehud would have reasonably reliable Public Order, but wouldn’t supply much in the way of taxes or trade income to Artaxerxes.

Now, it's easy for me to loftily pull a faction list out of thin air, but if you want to see a Classical Persia-themed mod, it could reasonably be done. You might be better off building your own team than trying to hijack another mod, though. Also, while you find EB's timeframe "repetitive," I at least am eagerly awaiting a revamped and redone version of Europa Barbarorum, and I suspect many others are as well.

It's not a matter of repetitiveness: from the get-go EBII has been the next version of EBI, it is the same mod being updated. It just so happened the team decided to do it on another engine...

If you want a mod which deals with the Sassanian period then I would recommend you check out the work of the Invasio Barbarorum team. Their MTWII mod Invasio Barbarorum II is in beta testing at the moment and looks quite good.

And dont worry I have a gut feeling that in a couple of years, there will be EBIII for RTW2... maybe none of the current members will be on the team but EB has become bigger than people (*dramatic drumroll*)

provided it's moddable :/

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Originally Posted by Brennus

If you want a mod which deals with the Sassanian period then I would recommend you check out the work of the Invasio Barbarorum team. Their MTWII mod Invasio Barbarorum II is in beta testing at the moment and looks quite good.

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Why wait for the full version of the M2TW engine mod? he's got 4 complete versions of the mod to choose from for the BI engine.

as to quality? it's one of the best out there, and I've said before, it's my favorite mod series.

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Originally Posted by Ca Putt

provided it's moddable :/

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Havent all TW games been moddable so far? @Ibrahim: Which IB is your favorite or what would you reccomend as an intro to the series?

In the warscape games the modding has been... limited.

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Havent all TW games been moddable so far?

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The moddability of the later 3 titles was substancially lower than that of Medieval2 and Rome.

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Originally Posted by ziegenpeter

Havent all TW games been moddable so far? @Ibrahim: Which IB is your favorite or what would you reccomend as an intro to the series?

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I'd go with the original one (ruina romae/flagellum dei) as a good start. the most in depth would be the the recently released somnium Apostatae Iuliani. I tend to lean towards the former than the latter, though I have had more play time with the latter.

one of the versions, just to be clear, is still in development--it's set in the 3rd century AD, during the third century crisis.

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Originally Posted by Aram of Mada

thank you, im convinced a little
but if not in classical period, it could be in sassandis periods that you have documents about barbarians too
you know, i'd like anything but not repitetive!! because it will be three times !!! EB 1 EB 2 ROME 2 !!!!!

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Sure EB2 will deal with the same starting date. But on the M2:TW engine you can add 10 additional factions to fill huge gaps on the map. This alone is probably one of the main reasons why they decided to develop a remake. EB1 was full of strong stacks and scripted rebellions to represent key areas of mighty factions that could not make it due to the low limits on the Rome:TW engine. Don't know how you think about it, but I prefer actual factions that I can interact with, instead of scripted stacks appearing out of nowhere.


And as others have pointed out - the Sassanid period (Late Antiquity) is well represented by the IB-Mods:
The best option for eastern players is "Invasio Barbarorum: Somnium Apostatae Juliani" imho, because it features even an Indian faction. Thus an additional enemy for Sassanid players compared to IBFD where this Slot is used for an additional European Barbarian faction. And IB:SAI has even three campaigns 355, 361 or 365 AD - so you can decide whether to face or play the whole combined Roman Empire (361), two (355) or even three (365) Roman factions.

Another work, but still in development is "Ages of Darkness II" - it will feature the era between 527 and 630 AD. Judging from the previews it is (similar to EB and IB) also a very detailed and historical accurate depiction of the time between the Fall of the Western Roman Empire and the Islamic Conquests.

Earlier timeframes like the Bronze Age or the Assyrian/Achaemenid Empires might lack detailed informations about factions far away from the key areas of the map. Therefore a detailed mod giving the same attention to all areas and factions on the map (one of the main intentions of EB) is much more difficult or even impossible.