I may be wrong but there is one very important thing that EB II lacks!
First of all I would like to announce that EB is the greatest game of all time and I play it since forever. Damn even despite work (and I have a hell of a work to do) I have been checking this website (and twitter) for 5 years at least once a day... And I noticed that there is one thing that EB II (and EB in general) lacks or EB members just do not talk about their actions in that area, which is.... Marketing. Marketing and marketing. I may be wrong but I belive that if EB team created a small group of fans who (for example in exchenge of the possiblity) would announce that EB is looking for artists, modelers etc. on varius forums and websites dedicaed to the respective areas (and in different languages) I believe that it must bring effects. The same EB team should announce in first and later relasead versions of EB II (for example on the first starting screen) that they still are looking for team members etc... I do not know whether actions listed above are consistent with EB spirit but I just feel that it would be such a waste if EB II will not include all splendid ideas made by former and current EB team members due to lack of human resorces in the team... Ok, that is all from me, feel free to criticise... :)
Re: I may be wrong but there is one very important thing that EB II lacks!
It's certainly a valid point, IMO, and would reach more people than the Twitter updates and the Org and TWC but I wonder how many people beyond those who already frequent such forums would be interested in EBII? Also we are a little limited in what we can offer people in exchange for their services; we need beta testers to be reasonably compotent with game mechanics etc.
But thanks for your opinion (and continuing support). I will see if anyone else on the team has another (wiser) opinion than me.
Re: I may be wrong but there is one very important thing that EB II lacks!
The 'beta testing tease' was just an example, I believe it is worth trying if there are people who would be willing to do it for free - many volunteered for the province descriprions, maybe the same would happen with "marketing team". Twitter updates and org annoucements mainly reach the people who are devoted Eb fans bur cannot help the team - if the could they would have already done this imo.
And I believe many people would be interested in helping with the development of EB even if they have not yet heard abouth that - I have many friends who are die hard fans of ancient history and strategy games (including TW series) but they have not heard about EB... People would be even more willingful to help if they learnt from numerous articles as much EB is recognized in the while gaming world - in my opinion it is something to be proud of to be in the team. In my humble opinion it is even the thing that should be added to one's CV, even if the person was just a member of the 'marketing squad'.
Marketing can work magic, just look at Ap...., ups ^^
Re: I may be wrong but there is one very important thing that EB II lacks!
This may not be relevant, but what exactly are those two flies doing in your signature, Brennus?
Re: I may be wrong but there is one very important thing that EB II lacks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rex Somnorum
This may not be relevant, but what exactly are those two flies doing in your signature, Brennus?
Based on some of the things we've found (and others we're still scratching our head's over), I'm guessing it's a double euphemism for CA source code. :clown:
Re: I may be wrong but there is one very important thing that EB II lacks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kull
Based on some of the things we've found (and others we're still scratching our head's over), I'm guessing it's a double euphemism for CA source code. :clown:
Nope.... I don't get it.
Re: I may be wrong but there is one very important thing that EB II lacks!
I think any kind of marketing prior to imminent release is a mistake. Let EB II be a little secret project until release.
Re: I may be wrong but there is one very important thing that EB II lacks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fallen851
I think any kind of marketing prior to imminent release is a mistake. Let EB II be a little secret project until release.
I think the OP refers marketing as in letting people now that they need more collaborators, not as in promoting the release of the mod.
Re: I may be wrong but there is one very important thing that EB II lacks!
the rights belong to ca and ... sega any active use to get eb out there without the games owners aproval can be constructed as a breach of the game engine owners s a violation of their author rights so to create such a team could endanger the project however if the magazines articles even tv shows and so forth come from outside and not at the request of the team (eg contacting through an organised team ) then the team can never be acused of violating the authors rights
bragging rights over who created who is a dangerous field that puts in question one of the humans worst caractheristics their ego
the team was already hurt when a group in south east asia was selling the mod as rtw 4th expansion pack after vikings in places like the phillipines and malasya that could have been blown off in the teams face and it was only discovered cause someone spending some holidays there saw it in a kind of street market
furthermore the project isn´t and can´t be seen as a product so any marketing strategy can´t be created without infringing on ca rights so without their permission trying anything outside the dedicated comunities is a minefield hard to navigate even by those with knowledge in this specific area of the law it´s like a greek singer ripping off an italian authors song without giving him credit just because he uses another chanel of distribution and translated or has given another lyric to the song and called it it´s own
so if the game creates enough buzz and the media considers it news worthy it´s ok if it doesn´t then it´s risky to do it as part of an organised effort
i once presented the idea of crowd funding and it was rebuffed on these same principle that the game can not generate income or in anyway hurt sega and ca image (including taking buzz out of their new products so if ca asks the team might have to further delay the release into a more appropriate time schedule like not at the beggining of the summer and not at christmas time )
just my personal input on this crazy schem
also socialogically as someone pointed out creating a campaign before it´s ready is one of the newbie marketing mistakes cause if you can´t deliver people´s frustation will outweight the quality of the product wich is a very interesting point of view and perhaps someone should make a study on how much hypering up a game releases contributes to the companies bad name and the customers dissatisfaction and frustation cause we all know the real girl will never be able to live up to the expectations that you created in your mind for the past 5 years you´ve been in love with her and didn´t even had the guts to ask her out or even say hello
Re: I may be wrong but there is one very important thing that EB II lacks!
I think that the discussion in this thread: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...coming-release would be the kind of "marketing" that EBII would benefit from.
Re: I may be wrong but there is one very important thing that EB II lacks!
i created that thread and if it happens it must be done by individuals as individuals and not something being sprung out of the core of the team or they risk legal liability
for instance youtube chanels can be considered dedicated comunities and therefore aslong as the owner thinks it´s usefull and interesting it comes with no strings attached but if the team contacts them oficially they can be held responsable for the damage done to the game engines owner hell even if the team is contacted by the owner of the chanel and they say something derogatory about sega even tough they didn´t initiate the contact they can be liable (altough far more easily defensable in court since there´s no way to prove intent )
Re: I may be wrong but there is one very important thing that EB II lacks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
moonburn
i created that thread and if it happens it must be done by individuals as individuals and not something being sprung out of the core of the team or they risk legal liability
for instance youtube chanels can be considered dedicated comunities and therefore aslong as the owner thinks it´s usefull and interesting it comes with no strings attached but if the team contacts them oficially they can be held responsable for the damage done to the game engines owner hell even if the team is contacted by the owner of the chanel and they say something derogatory about sega even tough they didn´t initiate the contact they can be liable (altough far more easily defensable in court since there´s no way to prove intent )
That is not entirely true. There is precedent, as, for instance, Arumba as showcased mods of CK2 that the developers gave him early access -->https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSgt...AwNArN7-SpcmA1
There is no harm or foul to recommend a mod to another person, and if that person happens to have a Youtube account and puts his impressions there, what of it? It does not damage CA or SEGA in anyway. If modding is considered "fair-use", and no transaction has occurred, there is no problem to recommend a mod to someone. Hell, it could even boost the sale of the base game! And we know that SEGA only cares about sales...
Re: I may be wrong but there is one very important thing that EB II lacks!
just saying the team as to protect itself so they can´t do stunts oficially
nothing against individuals saying how great the mod is and telling it to everyone
what you proposed includes a "paper trail" that can be in the end traced back into the team making them liable if sega feels either threatned or hurt by the mod or the actions of those associted with the mod
gosh the amount of flames that several team members had to put down when rtw2 came out and people where bashing it in here the flaming was being made by dudes like me individually but since it was done here (and everywhere but in other places it´s the other teams and moderators responsability) we risked becoming a liability for sega
the eb team can´t be at odd´s with sega cause without the game engine and their permission the mod dies if they decide to target us specifically (it would be possible to acuse descrimination but then sega could just close down all the mods ... ) even if we cater to many of the discontenpt with rtw2 the eb team will never side with them at the useless sega bashing
also the team wouldn´t just be resposable for the intended consequences it would also be responsable for the unintended consequences (i can think of hundreads of unintended consequences where sega could acuse the modding comunity in general and the eb in particular of damaging their image including the ludicrous example of sega bought a designer suit but they coudln´t get laid in it and then eb comes along and looks far better in it sega feels depreciated cause it´s his suit even if eb looks better in it ) and thats just one of the most inocent one´s where human behaviour and feelings get hurt ...
as for money sega makes 100 times more money on their future rome3 or in a dlc that they will ever make on mtw2 plus the expansion pack for kingdoms so if you look it at it from an economical marketing point of view extending the products lifespan particulary with something more appealing and with better quality undercuts your profits on your new products thats why they created dlc in the 1st place to have a steady source of income instead of always being dependent on if a game is a sucess or not
12 people have explained it to me far better then i can ever explain 3 of them in these forums on how the gaming industry works and another one was one of the original creaters of the tw series in an interview i found the link to on these chanels mods are great if you have 1 single product but they suck big time if you have loads of the new products to launch cause people get stuck in the old products and won´t pay the overpriced new games instead they´ll wait a year or two and get it at a discount on steam
you know the diference beteween going for the 60 euros and 5 euro games you find in worten
and by the way peniche is a sucky example Portimão is a far better example and one i can relate
Re: I may be wrong but there is one very important thing that EB II lacks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
moonburn
just saying the team as to protect itself so they can´t do stunts oficially
nothing against individuals saying how great the mod is and telling it to everyone
what you proposed includes a "paper trail" that can be in the end traced back into the team making them liable if sega feels either threatned or hurt by the mod or the actions of those associted with the mod
gosh the amount of flames that several team members had to put down when rtw2 came out and people where bashing it in here the flaming was being made by dudes like me individually but since it was done here (and everywhere but in other places it´s the other teams and moderators responsability) we risked becoming a liability for sega
the eb team can´t be at odd´s with sega cause without the game engine and their permission the mod dies if they decide to target us specifically (it would be possible to acuse descrimination but then sega could just close down all the mods ... ) even if we cater to many of the discontenpt with rtw2 the eb team will never side with them at the useless sega bashing
also the team wouldn´t just be resposable for the intended consequences it would also be responsable for the unintended consequences (i can think of hundreads of unintended consequences where sega could acuse the modding comunity in general and the eb in particular of damaging their image including the ludicrous example of sega bought a designer suit but they coudln´t get laid in it and then eb comes along and looks far better in it sega feels depreciated cause it´s his suit even if eb looks better in it ) and thats just one of the most inocent one´s where human behaviour and feelings get hurt ...
as for money sega makes 100 times more money on their future rome3 or in a dlc that they will ever make on mtw2 plus the expansion pack for kingdoms so if you look it at it from an economical marketing point of view extending the products lifespan particulary with something more appealing and with better quality undercuts your profits on your new products thats why they created dlc in the 1st place to have a steady source of income instead of always being dependent on if a game is a sucess or not
12 people have explained it to me far better then i can ever explain 3 of them in these forums on how the gaming industry works and another one was one of the original creaters of the tw series in an interview i found the link to on these chanels mods are great if you have 1 single product but they suck big time if you have loads of the new products to launch cause people get stuck in the old products and won´t pay the overpriced new games instead they´ll wait a year or two and get it at a discount on steam
you know the diference beteween going for the 60 euros and 5 euro games you find in worten
and by the way peniche is a sucky example Portimão is a far better example and one i can relate
Let's hold of on the melodrama, shall we?
What I and other people suggested is something as simple as sending an e-mail to AngryJoe saying "Hey, I heard you're a big fan of the Total War series, check this out". There is no "paper trail", there is no "shady dealings" or covert operations. It is just a game/mod recommendation. Tons of Youtubers receive suggestions from their fans on games to review or play, and this would be no different.
That suit analogy is really out of place, and does not illustrate the situation at all. Sega cannot accuse this mod of IP infrigement for it being showcased in a Youtube video, else Third Age Total War would have ceased to exist already. And who knows who recommended which mod to which Youtuber?
You still think Rome 3 is ever gonna happen? After the farce of Rome 2? Lulz. Also, DLC practices of the likes of Sega and CA should never be encouraged or defended, and frankly I'm shocked to see that here.
The point remains: If I recommend EBII to a Youtuber, there is no situation there. I'm just a fan recommending a mod to a game I know someone likes.
But regarding the OP, I think what he meant was to employ marketing in the search of new collaborators, and not to advertise the mod on any platform. But, in my opinion, it still is an idea to consider.
Re: I may be wrong but there is one very important thing that EB II lacks!
then you recomend it as a fan not as a team member
and yes i understood what he meant thing is finding good people is hard finding good people who have the free time harder and finding good people who have the free time and the skills to help is always nearly impossible i proposed a few ways to try and get to them but all failed due to impracticality and because the game isn´t yet ready
all the best people already work on other mods anyway and as i´m aware many stuff is shared beteween the modding teams
once the mod is out even if not fully finished former mods current mods on projects who aren´t going nowhere or who are near completion will come once they know it´s a sollid team cause trust is hard to come by it´s easy to find many projects who promiss what they can´t keep and any modder not accostumed to eb will think it´s an impossible job once they see it´s possible they´ll come i mean modders live for recognition so they´ll go where they can get it
the idea behinde the op´s conception would bring undisciplined people who quit after a few weeks modders in other languages are diferent the comunication gap does create more problems then it solves i know quite a few dutch sweadish german portuguese and spanish modders who have teams and only one of them is composed by diferent nationalities because of their comunication problems an amazing skinner is always an amazzing skinner but if he can´t speak english and has to use google translator to understand whats asked of him he will get frustated soon enough those who dominate english already have their own modding projects
another positive aspect ofc and not everything is bad is the hability to recruit a few of the young ones who are still trying to fit into some comunity like kids who are 16 year olds and are just now going around photoshop i know many members of the eb team had to be helped when they started to get their work quality up to standarts but then again thats always a hope that they stick around long enough to learn the trade and produce constant quality work so it could end up costing the team more time then helping them gain time
you need quality and perseverance hard qualities that very few people have (as i said many of the best modders work only in projects that have a set timetable and run away from projects with the magnitude of eb and that have the phrase "it´s done when it´s done" )
