Hostile Takeover of Washington is brewing

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_5519158.html

Do you believe him? Personally, I see this country succumbing to massive civil disturbance over the next 10-20 years. I don't want it to happen because it would be miserable and throw the planet into a dark age, but human nature is human nature, and I'm not sure that Americans have much in common beyond language anymore.

Not secession, but a hemorrhaging of civil strife and asymmetrical warfare all over the continent. Given our understanding of human history, is it crazier to think that it will happen or that it won't? Are Americans becoming more similar or less similar?

Also bobby jindal is an oblivious idiot even by Republican candidate standard.

Americans are feeling oppressed and repressed by a government that represents only the 1% and global corporations.

The government has a monopoly on force but widespread demonstrations could have an effect. The trouble here is that the media is controlled and operated by that 1%.

Whether their laws are constitutional is in the hands of 9 government lawyers who decide what they want to here from whom.

The US was founded on limited government but we seem to have all powerful government.

And you don’t see a need to reform it? Dark Age?

Reform? Yes. Revolt? No. With america's track record with revolts armed conflict is the last thing that will solve it's woes, especially if it's the very portion of society keeping those 1% in power that's doing the revolting.

Edit: actually I guess if it is the republicans doing the revolting I suppose it could be beneficial, when the revolution inevitably gets itself massacred there'll be fewer obstructionist politicians in power.

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

Also bobby jindal is an oblivious idiot even by Republican candidate standard.

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Combine enough "oblivious idiots" and mistakes can be made.

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Originally Posted by Fisherking

Americans are feeling oppressed and repressed by a government that represents only the 1% and global corporations.

The government has a monopoly on force but widespread demonstrations could have an effect. The trouble here is that the media is controlled and operated by that 1%.

Whether their laws are constitutional is in the hands of 9 government lawyers who decide what they want to here from whom.

The US was founded on limited government but we seem to have all powerful government.

And you don’t see a need to reform it? Dark Age?

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Of course there is a need for reform. Oligarchy is simply big government unconnected from even the whims of the people. Arguably the worst of both worlds.

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

Reform? Yes. Revolt? No. With america's track record with revolts armed conflict is the last thing that will solve it's woes, especially if it's the very portion of society keeping those 1% in power that's doing the revolting.

Edit: actually I guess if it is the republicans doing the revolting I suppose it could be beneficial, when the revolution inevitably gets itself massacred there'll be fewer obstructionist politicians in power.

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This is an interesting sentiment, from the types of people who eschew firearms and alienate the armed forces. Who are your allies? Brutal "meritocrats" in government?

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Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube

If the Tea Party had popped up during the Bush years, maybe I'd have been convinced of some merit. As it stands, Obama is one of the better presidents we've had in generations (that's not to say he's a good president, though--we haven't had an objectively good president in a very long time, if ever). 99% of the vitriol spewed against him is pure unadulterated grade-A conspiracy-theory bullshit. The sorts of people who buy into it aren't smart enough to do anything other than support every stupid Cliven Bundy-like figure that comes along. All this talk about "We need smaller government!" lol. Government is weak and puny, the real tyrants in our society are corporations that can push the government around any which way they please, and they are empowered by the tea party garbage.

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I agree, 90% of the garbage spewed about Obama is hogwash - BUT - to argue the absurdity that "Obama is one of the better presidents we've had in generations". WHAT? what were your main concerns about the policies of the past "generations of Presidents" that Obama hasn't continued or made worse?

Also, "government is weak and puny" and "nothing you citizens can do will ever stop the juggernaut that is government" (which you have suggested before) are inconsistent thoughts.

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Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube

It only seems inconsistent because you refuse to have a three dimensional view of government.

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see a Dr. Get checked for heavy metals.

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Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube

It only seems inconsistent because you refuse to have a three dimensional view of government.

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Please elaborate

I am a scissor, and I am awesome. I've been cutting up mah papers all day long, there's noone to stop me!




Oh hey there mr Rock....

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Originally Posted by ICantSpellDawg

This is an interesting sentiment, from the types of people who eschew firearms and alienate the armed forces. Who are your allies? Brutal "meritocrats" in government?

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Oh just everyone who isnt stupid enough to fight to overthrow a government just because the republican politicians throw a tantrum, IE 95% of the population of your country. Seriously, it's Bobby Jindall, he's as much an indicator of popular american sentiment as NAMBLA.

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

Oh just everyone who isnt stupid enough to fight to overthrow a government just because the republican politicians throw a tantrum, IE 95% of the population of your country. Seriously, it's Bobby Jindall, he's as much an indicator of popular american sentiment as NAMBLA.

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He is the governor of a State with 5 million people and a GDP the size of Finland or Greece.

So is rick scott, and while they voted him in, I dont think everyone in florida is a psychopathic lizardman.

Besides, louisiana is a hardline red state and jindal was the only republican running, the only way they wouldnt have elected him is if he ate babies.

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

So is rick scott, and while they voted him in, I dont think everyone in florida is a psychopathic lizardman.

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No, actually, Rick Scott is the governor of a State with 20 million and a GDP the size of Turkey.

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No, actually, Rick Scott is the governor of a State with 20 million and a GDP the size of Turkey.

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It was a joke. Besides, louisiana is a hard line red state and jindal was the only republican running for two terms, they didnt elect him for his viewpoints and I dont see them following him into battle.

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

It was a joke. Besides, louisiana is a hardline red state and jindal was the only republican running for two terms, the only way they wouldn't have elected him is if he ate babies.

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What about Rick Perry? Governor of a state of 26 million and a GDP just under Norway, Sweden, & Denmark combined. All of these nobody's piled on top of one another stars to look like somebody after a while.

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Originally Posted by ICantSpellDawg

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_5519158.html

Do you believe him? Personally, I see this country succumbing to massive civil disturbance over the next 10-20 years. I don't want it to happen because it would be miserable and throw the planet into a dark age, but human nature is human nature, and I'm not sure that Americans have much in common beyond language anymore.

Not secession, but a hemorrhaging of civil strife and asymmetrical warfare all over the continent. Given our understanding of human history, is it crazier to think that it will happen or that it won't? Are Americans becoming more similar or less similar?

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Eh, you have no official language, and quite some areas are overrun with non-english speaking people. So if that's what you have got going for you... :inquisitive:

Pretty sure that having all of thier official documents exclusively written in english makes it thier official language.

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What about Rick Perry? Governor of a state of 26 million and a GDP just under Norway, Sweden, & Denmark combined. All of these nobody's piled on top of one another stars to look like somebody after a while.

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Except he didnt run on a "start the second civil war" ticket, neither of them did, they both ran and were elected in states that are notoriously dead set on electing republican candidates, just because they were elected the 2/3 times before they started preaching the anarchist's bible doesnt mean that they would get national support for a revoloution.

Now if they still get relected in the next gubernatorial elections and both had to defeat an equally competent republican candidate that advocated letting the president stay that would mean something but right now they're only speaking for themselves.

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

Also bobby jindal is an oblivious idiot even by Republican candidate standard.

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I need to start voting Democrat. Obviously my GOP leanings have been sapping my mind. Nobody can look at a conservative agenda and believe in it unless they are a drooling idiot.

:dizzy2:

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Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube

If the Tea Party had popped up during the Bush years, maybe I'd have been convinced of some merit. As it stands, Obama is one of the better presidents we've had in generations (that's not to say he's a good president, though--we haven't had an objectively good president in a very long time, if ever). 99% of the vitriol spewed against him is pure unadulterated grade-A conspiracy-theory bullshit. The sorts of people who buy into it aren't smart enough to do anything other than support every stupid Cliven Bundy-like figure that comes along. All this talk about "We need smaller government!" lol. Government is weak and puny, the real tyrants in our society are corporations that can push the government around any which way they please, and they are empowered by the tea party garbage.

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Oy vey do I disagree as to the quality and direction of the Obama administration. The best of recent years was the thoroughly muzzled Clinton admin after the first midterm election and before the blue dress idiocy (as though THAT rose to the level of impeachable....stupid). Prior to that I thought Reagan did well for the first six years and Nixon policy wise might have done great things if he hadn't been a crook. Since WW2? Ike by a mile.

The point that Jindal seemed to be trying to make - leaving aside any insinuations about civil strife, which would only be to the benefit of a warlord who loves bloodshed - is that people resent well-meaning central governance requiring people thousands of miles away to think and act in a certain way. Whether this is actualized by requiring that all laws be consistent, all curriculum consistent, etc; this is anathema to anyone outside of the immediate influence group of that central authority.

The problem with a centralized educational curriculum is that it demands that all lessons be identical, not that it requires a base standard of education. This is a problem with most progressive policies, it isnt that they want a base standard on which to build unique concepts, economies and legal systems; it is that they want to command it to the enth degree morning, noon and night.

I reject sameness and I reject the idea that we are a nation founded on revolting against a 10% tax rate enacted by a government thousands of miles away only to be under the boot of a government thousands of miles away with a tax rate of nearly 50% a few hundred years later. I want a Federal government that ensures a base standard, not the endpoint.

The warning is this; there are consequences to a take no prisoners approach to changes that are vehemently opposed by many. I'm sure that plenty of Northerners thought that those who opposed their domination were hillbillies with a smaller population, weaker economy, and dumber ideas. It didn't stop them from surging into the Pennsylvania after years of superior military action that was unexpected. Just be sure that playing with fire is something that you want to do over commanding the lives of others. It seems to be something that growing numbers of Americans incensed with D.C. are coming to terms with themselves. History isn't over, hopefully the past few years of watching Europe and the Middle-East degenerate are uncovering this fact.

You guys wouldn't put up with it in Europe, why should we?

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

I need to start voting Democrat. Obviously my GOP leanings have been sapping my mind. Nobody can look at a conservative agenda and believe in it unless they are a drooling idiot.

:dizzy2:

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Is this sarcastic?

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we are a nation founded on revolting against a 10% tax rate instated by a government thousands of miles away

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Uh...you serious? I mean as much as my nationality makes me want to say "the americans were unjustified in thier revolution" we did a bit more than institute a 10% tax rate.

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

Is this sarcastic?


Uh...you serious? I mean as much as my nationality makes me want to say "the americans were unjustified in thier revolution" we did a bit more than institute a 10% tax rate.

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Hmm, you mean like sending armed soldiers into the home of non-violent citizens ? (this). General warrants affecting the whole of the populace? Warrant-less searches & seizures? Limitless surveillance?
Imposition of massive tax rates from afar, hyper-violent enforcement of minor violations, excessive educational mandates; we are either at the place or approaching rapidly.

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Originally Posted by ICantSpellDawg

Go on.

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Dude, just look it up. http://americanhistory.about.com/od/...revolution.htm
It wasnt one 10% tax it was a culmination of many acts of parliament made in an attempt to regain all the money spent in the french indian war, when the americans protested with actions like the boston tea party more acts were given to punish the protestors which in turn inspired more and more serious protests. Both sides kept escalating the situation until it devolved into open rebellion.

Seriously until you get to the point where texans trying to buy granite or something end up getting a better price by importing from alaska than from a quarry 2 towns over because of taxes you really shouldnt be complaining.
Hell, the 3rd amendment was in response to british soldiers being forced upon american colonists.

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

Dude, just look it up. http://americanhistory.about.com/od/...revolution.htm
It wasnt one 10% tax it was a culmination of many acts of parliament made in an attempt to regain all the money spent in the french indian war, when the americans protested with actions like the boston tea party more acts were given to punish the protestors which in turn inspired more and more serious protests. Both sides kept escalating the situation until it devolved into revolt.

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Yes, I am aware.

...Then why did you tell me to go on?

Expression: "Go On"
Interjection

• Expresses surprise, disbelief or incredulity.

You know I cant hear sarcasm through the internet right? Regardless, you want to talk survielance you gotta talk patriot act, not obama. You want to talk High taxes you gotta talk Bush's recession, not the democrats, you want to talk home invasion... well you get the idea. Point is these people who are advocating violent uprisings and impeachment were conspicuously silent over the last decade and are only now speaking because it is in thier interests to put down thier rivals now they are in power, not because they actually give a toss, and you really shouldnt be convincing yourself otherwise. Of course that doesnt make him wrong It just makes his concern, and by extention yours, a bit suspect.

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

You know I cant hear sarcasm through the internet right? Regardless, you want to talk survielance you gotta talk patriot act, not obama. You want to talk High taxes you gotta talk Bush's recession, not the democrats, you want to talk home invasion... well you get the idea. Point is these people who are advocating violent uprisings and impeachment were conspicuously silent over the last decade and are only now speaking because it is in thier interests to put down thier rivals now they are in power, not because they actually give a toss, and you really shouldnt be convincing yourself otherwise. Of course that doesnt make him wrong It just makes his, and by extention yours, concern a bit suspect.

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No, I had no idea that your couldn't hear the sarcasm.

Classic argument, "you never complained when your guy was doing it, why are you complaining now that our guy is doing it". Never ending cycle. Most of us were caught by surprise that the government believes the Patriot act gave them authority to have secret laws and warrant-less mass surveillance of US citizens. One of the major proponents of the law says that those permissions were never and could never have been granted under the protections enshrined in the Bill of Rights, and most certainly weren't implied under the bill that was passed.