Hatred.

So, I stopped following this forum since it moves too fast for me. I wanted to introduce this thread because I was curious about different perspectives on this issue. This forum has a healthy mix of Americans on one hand and the rest of the world on the other. I'm just going to copy paste what I posted on Mobius. I can't be bothered rewording my own words.

"So, many of you might have heard of this game. This is the game the media have been waiting to go ape-shit over. The premise of the game? Just kill every single civilian you see. A lot of gamers are hating on the game, saying it's gone too far. Others are ecstatic, and can't wait to play. I, on the other hand, am not ecstatic. But it doesn't mean I won't give it a shot.

My take on video games affecting people is this. Video games should NOT dictate the way someone should live their life. It's a story, or an experience, something competitive or something to pass the time. In this case, the story is very minimal, it's a very intense and hardcore experience. But I can imagine that this game could be difficult (it's a sadistic horde mode), but is something that you can easily waste time on. A lot of people are calling this game pathetic, and that due to the lack of story, makes it meaningless. When I play a game, I like to give the character a story. This game allows that.

I'm curious about your thoughts on this game, especially from a group of people who don't seem to play shooters too often."


Here is the gameplay trailer. NSFW

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qV3PhvCf_Jg

Can't say I apreciate that. If there isn't anything clever underneath it's a no.

That gameplay trailer should at the very least contain a warning for very graphic violence if it fits our forum rules at all. (I'll let the mods decide that)

As for the game, I'm not a fan at all. If "I" do something in a game, it helps if I get at least a chance to identify with the character or there is some sense behind what he is doing. This game has none of that, the character you play is quite frankly an idiot who does things I abhor. And it's not making me think about the subject matter either because I already thought about it for years and came to the above conclusion. So while they might have a right to make the game, I would like to see them sell very few. And if the character in the game weren't an idiot, he would just shoot himself in the intro. IMO this is just an attempt to make money by shocking, crossing yet another frontier of decency or whatever one might call it and just going for the "I'm not with the masses!" or "Bloood!! Violence!! *drool*-crowd. Yes, there may also be people who play it because they think it's some sort of intellectual exercise to play this "piece of art" that takes such philosophical stance on life and blabla, but quite frankly I think they're just fooling themselves. Murdering innocent people in cold blood for no good reason is not something I want to recreate, spend money on or see otherwise promoted, no matter how it's dressed up.

Yeah. Manhunt is inredibly violent but it's really a pretty clever game that makes you think about loving violence. Postal is so self-conciously rediculous that murdering everything is hilarious. I don't like this one judging from the trailer at least.

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Originally Posted by spankythehippo

... Americans on one hand and the rest of the world on the other...

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Isn't it an extract from Putin's recent Valdai speech?

My first thought was: "Thanks for giving mainstream media more ammo and setting gaming's image back 15 years Destructive Creations, you controversy profiting jackasses."

Then I watched the video and realized deep down in my heart that the ultimate truth is that they are actually controversy profiting assholes.
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And yet, how many times has this very scenario been played out in the cities of the US?

Virginia Tech campus, Sandy Hook Elementary School, Fort Hood, Columbine High School, Washington Navy Yard, and on...and on....and on....:creep:

A sick, but rather telling story of madness in America...:shame:

No. Just no. Feels very wrong to me. A game the world doesn't need.

Apart from that: What IS the goal of the game? Shoot as many people before the police takes you down? What is the appeal of the game? Obviously not aesthetics or finesse. Realistic senseless violence (will we get "immersive pleads for mercy")?

The opening screen made me laugh though: "May contain content inappropriate for children."

Oh, really!?

Max Payne 2 had better graphics.

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Originally Posted by I of the Storm

Apart from that: What IS the goal of the game?

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The goal of this game is to make its producers richer and when you lack both creativeness and financial resources, controversy is the easiest way to maximize your sales.
In the meantime, a couple of sociopaths will enjoy it a bit, while pretending that they study the hard, philosophical dilemmas that its gameplay concerns.

I am morally outraged by this.

I really wish I had not watched that.

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Originally Posted by spankythehippo

I'm curious about your thoughts on this game, especially from a group of people who don't seem to play shooters too often.

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Reasonably good graphics and SFX. I like the switch between the first person and overhead cameras. Not my cup of tea as far as the gameplay goes. No story == boring.

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Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai

And yet, how many times has this very scenario been played out in the cities of the US?

Virginia Tech campus, Sandy Hook Elementary School, Fort Hood, Columbine High School, Washington Navy Yard, and on...and on....and on....:creep:

A sick, but rather telling story of madness in America...:shame:

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Forgot about what happened in Norway. not exclusive to Americs

This gives people who hate violent games a point they shouldn't have.Resident Evil 4 or Gears of War are gloriiouslly gory but it can't be taken serious. GTA knows it's stupid. I don't like this one, this is off.

Hatred 2: Blow yourself up and score points for every innocent you kill.

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I think this would just be like :daisy:ing around in GTA. You have fun for a while, but you have had enough of it after like 30 minutes.

AFAIK, you can't even simulate rapes here!

I mean, what's the point if you can only execute your victims.... :mean:

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Originally Posted by Gilrandir

Isn't it an extract from Putin's recent Valdai speech?

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Is it? I had no idea. I said that because of the amount of violence in America is other-worldly.

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

AFAIK, you can't even simulate rapes here!

I mean, what's the point if you can only execute your victims.... :mean:

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That's an interesting point I saw brought up in some of the comments. In this world, murder is seen as being perfectly fine if it's portrayed in movies, TV, video games etc. It's a staple in any action-oriented text. "It's okay, because it's not real". I don't understand these standards. That doesn't mean I'm disgusted by violence presented in this way. It's just interesting to me, that there are certain topics that are still taboo in a format that isn't real. For instance, in Skyrim, you can kill anyone. Except kids. If you're going around extinguishing lives, why does the age matter?

No no no, nobody here understands, it's actually a parody of how common violence has become in the U.S.

..or that's what they're going to say when everything goes to :daisy: over all this.

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Originally Posted by spankythehippo

That's an interesting point I saw brought up in some of the comments. In this world, murder is seen as being perfectly fine if it's portrayed in movies, TV, video games etc. It's a staple in any action-oriented text. "It's okay, because it's not real". I don't understand these standards. That doesn't mean I'm disgusted by violence presented in this way. It's just interesting to me, that there are certain topics that are still taboo in a format that isn't real. For instance, in Skyrim, you can kill anyone. Except kids. If you're going around extinguishing lives, why does the age matter?

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Neither Skyrim nor GTA go to great lengths to dehumanize all the random people you can kill, none of them make this your actual goal. This trailer on the other hand starts by declaring them unworthy or whatever drivel he speaks in the beginning. He says the world is rotten or something. It's not explained, there i no reason given, this guy just says all humans are not worthy and therefore he will kill as many as he can. In Skyrim it is my duty to complete quests given to me by innocents, the game doesn't release me after the intro and show me a counter of innocents I have killed or anything like that. As such I can use my normal moral compass in the game and killing innocents may just feel wrong for normal human beings. Hatred on the other hand seems to make murdering innocents feel like the right thing to do and the trailer doesn't even explain how that conclusion was reached.

Reasons do matter.

Add to that that the game has an extra-amount of gore added, to make the killing of innocent people look extra-brutal. Yes, nothing new, view it as a multiplier of the other moral problem though. For the target group, the gore is like the reward for the killing, and they added a huge amount of extra reward for killing people who have apparently not done anything to deserve it. To me it does matter whether I see a killcam of a mercenary getting shot or whether it's a killcam of a guy shooting a businesswoman into the mouth while I don't even know what the businesswoman did to deserve that (for the mercenary I can at least imagine a reason much faster).

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Originally Posted by Husar

Neither Skyrim nor GTA go to great lengths to dehumanize all the random people you can kill, none of them make this your actual goal. This trailer on the other hand starts by declaring them unworthy or whatever drivel he speaks in the beginning. He says the world is rotten or something. It's not explained, there i no reason given, this guy just says all humans are not worthy and therefore he will kill as many as he can. In Skyrim it is my duty to complete quests given to me by innocents, the game doesn't release me after the intro and show me a counter of innocents I have killed or anything like that. As such I can use my normal moral compass in the game and killing innocents may just feel wrong for normal human beings. Hatred on the other hand seems to make murdering innocents feel like the right thing to do and the trailer doesn't even explain how that conclusion was reached.

Reasons do matter.

Add to that that the game has an extra-amount of gore added, to make the killing of innocent people look extra-brutal. Yes, nothing new, view it as a multiplier of the other moral problem though. For the target group, the gore is like the reward for the killing, and they added a huge amount of extra reward for killing people who have apparently not done anything to deserve it. To me it does matter whether I see a killcam of a mercenary getting shot or whether it's a killcam of a guy shooting a businesswoman into the mouth while I don't even know what the businesswoman did to deserve that (for the mercenary I can at least imagine a reason much faster).

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So I assume the main gripe people have with this game is its purpose. I can understand that. The game has no meaning, and as such, I don't really care for its existence. Its a game that was made for the shock factor. The devs could say that it was meant to highlight the animal in man, which I can totally understand. But that message could be achieved without pandering to a sociopath's wet dream. No matter what the devs say, this game is ultimately about killing innocent people. Even though a lot of people are shocked by this game, I don't really care. To me, it's still a game. There are worse things happening in the world right now. And they're real. The shitstorm that is about to cover the presses just kills time while actual tragedies continue to be ignored.

I dunno, at some point in time, I actually had similar ideals to that character. I wouldn't go to the extent of killing people, but I was certainly misanthropic. Not anymore, but I do look like him. When I saw that trailer, I saw an image of my former self, but with a similar appearance. Made it feel all too familiar.

EDIT: OK, I kinda lied when I say I don't care about the existence of this game. My only concern is if someone who is mentally disturbed uses this game as inspiration. All those media articles which say video games cause violence are semi-true. Raise your kids right, and they can play all the violent games they want and not want to kill someone in the real world.

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Originally Posted by spankythehippo

So I assume the main gripe people have with this game is its purpose. I can understand that. The game has no meaning, and as such, I don't really care for its existence. Its a game that was made for the shock factor. The devs could say that it was meant to highlight the animal in man, which I can totally understand. But that message could be achieved without pandering to a sociopath's wet dream. No matter what the devs say, this game is ultimately about killing innocent people. Even though a lot of people are shocked by this game, I don't really care. To me, it's still a game. There are worse things happening in the world right now. And they're real. The shitstorm that is about to cover the presses just kills time while actual tragedies continue to be ignored.

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Considering the connections the developers have genociding the "unworthy" is probably the meaning of the game (another is to gain money through controversy).

Well, that was disturbing.

Spree shooter 301 -- Part of the core curriculum for the enhanced serial killer.

with every game we should ask "who was this made for?"

GTA is made for people who want to indulge in criminality/pretend they're in the Sopranos in a cartoonish setting. Skyrim is for people who think Tolkien should have added THEM into the Silmarilion.

This game is for...

White dudes who want to kill black dudes and not go to gaol?

You know who else said the people out there are not worthy and deserve to die?
HITLER!!!

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

This game is for...

White dudes who want to kill black dudes and not go to gaol?

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Join the police and you get better graphics.

This game looks like a honeypot, to get disgruntled young men on watch lists.

If its really about knocking off Negroes, then why - going off the trailer - did the developers not make the targets seem like Others? In the trailer, they look like everyday citizens who beg for mercy with the rest of them.

Or does that just make it creepier?

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

If its really about knocking off Negroes, then why - going off the trailer - did the developers not make the targets seem like Others? In the trailer, they look like everyday citizens who beg for mercy with the rest of them.

Or does that just make it creepier?

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I think the developers are moving around in circles where statements such as "somebody should just kill away the filth" and cheering for Brevik are met with approval. And it's a game for that type of people.

"My revenge on the world" isn't that uncommon statement by itself, it's just that normally it is on a much, much milder scale. So probably creepier.

Those are Polish developers, so the negro wouldn't be the prime target anyway.

It's also unrealistic how he puts all the weapons under his mantle in the same place and the mantle doesn't even bulge. and how does it all not fall down?

The logistics are ignored, just like the nazis forgot to bring warm mantles to Russia in the first place.
I hope it will fail in the same way. Also polish nazis are like zebra lions, you'd expect them to eat themselves. :dizzy2: