Changing Parties

It is well known to most of the old timers here who used to participate in Backroom discussions a lot that the Vuk is a very strong Conservative who votes Republican far more often than not, and has a great amount of respect for the Party for what it has done (defeating slavery, fascism, communism, etc). I don't think that a single other political party in US history has made even half of the positive contributions to this nation that the Grand Old Party has.
I have volunteered for them before, helped organize fundraising efforts for my county party, was invited as a special guest to a live primary debate and to the Wisconsin Republican convention. I have been pretty involved in wrapped up in the party, even though I have never been a registered Republican or identified as a Republican. Why haven't I officially become a Republican? Short answer: Trump.

I believe that you should be loyal to principles and morals, not to a Party. I knew that as unlikely as it seemed, there could well come a time when the Party that most represented my principles became a Party that opposed them. Unfortunately that has happened. The Republican Party has decided to embrace the racist, socialist, authoritarian fascism of Donald J. Trump. I can no longer in good conscience associate myself with this party. I have ceased all volunteer efforts and no longer consider myself in any way associated with this party. To me it is now just as evil and abhorrent as the Democrat Party has always been. Despite this horrible mistake, the Party has a rich and glorious history, and if it returns to its principles I may one day return to it.
For the time being though, I am choosing to associate myself with the Constitution Party (not officially of course, as I don't believe in that). Of all the parties out there, they best represent my beliefs now.

I will not choose between Hitler and Stalin. I would rather lose and oppose them both. I will not choose either evil.
Hillary and Clinton are part of the same group of socialists who want absolutely centralized power in the US. They are not picky about how they get it. They are giving us the choice between a communist and a fascist, and having us vote for whichever one we fear less. They are counting on us not realizing that they are working for the same side.
If we allow ourselves to be tricked into this false dichotomy, we will become like Europe. No offense to most of the Org, but in European countries you guys are given choices between parties that all want the same thing: complete government control and wealth redistribution, and you are fooled into believing you have a choice. You don't have a single choice that is not Socialism. That is what they are trying to do to America. They want to give us the choice between different flavors of Socialism to give us the illusion that we have choice and make us easy to manage cattle.

Write in, vote third party, do whatever seems to have the best chance to succeed as we get closer to election day. Do NOT choose evil. There will be no going back if we let them trick us into doing this.

Have you ever considered that the brand of socialism, as seen from an American perspective, that's been implemented here, is what Europeans want? Even in the UK, probably the most right-leaning of the European countries, maintenance of government services is a large part of what voters vote for. Especially among the 30+ age groups. Elections results are basically whoever offers the best government services that the voters think they can afford.

I dont think Socialism means what either of you think it means.

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

Have you ever considered that the brand of socialism, as seen from an American perspective, that's been implemented here, is what Europeans want? Even in the UK, probably the most right-leaning of the European countries, maintenance of government services is a large part of what voters vote for. Especially among the 30+ age groups. Elections results are basically whoever offers the best government services that the voters think they can afford.

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Of course they want it. They are given a number of choices and asked to vote for the one they want the most. They have been conditioned to think that those are the only valid choices, and they have to pick between them. They are not given any other option.

How did the GOP defeat fascism? FDR was a democrat and I would say it was a combined effort that defeated fascism. Communism too, though that was a whole bunch of reasons and cant be simplified to "Reagan was single handedly responsible for the downfall of the USSR" like so many people like to fantasize.

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Originally Posted by Hooahguy

How did the GOP defeat fascism? FDR was a democrat and I would say it was a combined effort that defeated fascism. Communism too, though that was a whole bunch of reasons and cant be simplified to "Reagan was single handedly responsible for the downfall of the USSR" like so many people like to fantasize.

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I didn't say that Reagan defeated communism single-handedly. The truth is though, that communism was defeated through a Republican led political and cultural campaign that they received no end of opposition and ridicule from Democrats for.
Also, Democrats were in love with Hitler before WWII. It was Republicans who were largely interventionists and opposed Socialism in all forms: fascist or communist.

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

I dont think Socialism means what either of you think it means.

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To an American, the NHS is way beyond the path of socialism and uncomfortably close to Communism. I consider myself a socialist, along the lines favoured by Orwell.

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Originally Posted by Vuk

Of course they want it. They are given a number of choices and asked to vote for the one they want the most. They have been conditioned to think that those are the only valid choices, and they have to pick between them. They are not given any other option.

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Of course they were given options. That's why the Tories were known as the nasty party during Blair's time (to quote the then Tory chairman), until they started paying attention to Labour's territory of government services. The Tories veered towards US Republican territory, and the British voters wanted none of it.

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

Of course they were given options. That's why the Tories were known as the nasty party during Blair's time (to quote the then Tory chairman), until they started paying attention to Labour's territory of government services. The Tories veered towards US Republican territory, and the British voters wanted none of it.

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I admit that Britain politically does have more free thought and more of a choice than the rest of Europe. They are almost a bastard mix of European and American with their political ideology. Where in continental Europe is anyone given any choice at all?

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Originally Posted by Vuk

I didn't say that Reagan defeated communism single-handedly. The truth is though, that communism was defeated through a Republican led political and cultural campaign that they received no end of opposition and ridicule from Democrats for.

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I never said you did. But many conservatives I speak to seem to think this way. I will agree with you that the GOP were more hawkish than the Democrats were.

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Also, Democrats were in love with Hitler before WWII. It was Republicans who were largely interventionists and opposed Socialism in all forms: fascist or communist.

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Lol wut. Citation needed. Both parties had heavy isolationist movements and pretending otherwise is flat out revisionism. I mean come on, Willkie, the GOP nominee for the 1940 presidential election accused FDR of warmongering. Doesnt sound very interventionist to me. Its also bunk claiming that Democrats were in love with Hitler before WW2. Hell, it was Democrats who led the section of the House Un-American Activities Committee to root out Nazism in the 1930s.

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I admit that Britain politically does have more free thought and more of a choice than the rest of Europe. They are almost a bastard mix of European and American with their political ideology.

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Sadly the whole wolf whistle hate speech thing might lose us that staus, or at least in nottingham. Still, at least it is nowhere near the german level of free speech violations.

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At the trial, Peter M. defended his remarks online and said: “One can not even express a critical opinion of refugees without getting labelled as a Nazi. I wanted to create a discussion forum where you can speak your mind about refugees.” Peter M. talked about how, in his role as an administrator of the group, he would weed out any pro-Nazi or radical remarks and delete such posts but since Facebook had deleted the page he couldn’t present the evidence to the court.

The judge in the case was unforgiving in his verdict on the site saying that “the description of the group is a series of generalisations with a clear right-wing background”. After sentencing Peter M. to a nine month suspended prison sentence and his wife to a fine of €1,200 the judge said: “I hope you understand the seriousness of the situation. If you sit in front of me again, you will end up in jail.”

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Translation of this german article: http://www.merkur.de/lokales/dachau/...t-6548310.html

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Originally Posted by Vuk

I admit that Britain politically does have more free thought and more of a choice than the rest of Europe. They are almost a bastard mix of European and American with their political ideology. Where in continental Europe is anyone given any choice at all?

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Goodness knows about the continentals, except that there is more of a leftist verge among the bigger countries. However, here is the quote I mentioned.

"There's a lot we need to do in this party of ours. Our base is too narrow and so, occasionally, are our sympathies. You know what some people call us – the Nasty Party."

I just want someone who tells me what to do and gives me money when I don't want to do it.

snip

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Originally Posted by Vuk

I didn't say that Reagan defeated communism single-handedly. The truth is though, that communism was defeated through a Republican led political and cultural campaign that they received no end of opposition and ridicule from Democrats for.
Also, Democrats were in love with Hitler before WWII. It was Republicans who were largely interventionists and opposed Socialism in all forms: fascist or communist.

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The space race largely tipped the communist country over the line in cost not just the ICBMs. The prestige loss with having been first to space but not to the moon. Moscow built a city to compete vs the U.S. in the space race and lost... Now was Kennedy a democrat or a republican?

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Originally Posted by Vuk

Write in, vote third party, do whatever seems to have the best chance to succeed as we get closer to election day. Do NOT choose evil. There will be no going back if we let them trick us into doing this.

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I would vote that (mind it, it is both for the US and the UK):
http://www.nme.com/news/alice-cooper/95050

Donald Trump is definitely no socialist. Bernie Sanders I might agree with, but not the rest. Please don't use the Fox News political definitions.

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Originally Posted by Vuk

[...] parties that all want the same thing: complete government control and wealth redistribution

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What?

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Originally Posted by Viking

What?

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You're indoctrinated, you can't see the truth.

Republican Dance Party or Open Carry at RNC convention in Cleveland:smg:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-us...-idUSKCN0ZY0AI

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Originally Posted by Vuk

socialists

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You don't know what that word means.

I don't like either one of the candidates we have...

Kanye West 2020!

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...11/709/1d9.jpg

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Originally Posted by Vuk

It is well known to most of the old timers here who used to participate in Backroom discussions a lot that the Vuk is a very strong Conservative who votes Republican far more often than not, and has a great amount of respect for the Party for what it has done (defeating slavery, fascism, communism, etc). I don't think that a single other political party in US history has made even half of the positive contributions to this nation that the Grand Old Party has.
I have volunteered for them before, helped organize fundraising efforts for my county party, was invited as a special guest to a live primary debate and to the Wisconsin Republican convention. I have been pretty involved in wrapped up in the party, even though I have never been a registered Republican or identified as a Republican. Why haven't I officially become a Republican? Short answer: Trump.

I believe that you should be loyal to principles and morals, not to a Party. I knew that as unlikely as it seemed, there could well come a time when the Party that most represented my principles became a Party that opposed them. Unfortunately that has happened. The Republican Party has decided to embrace the racist, socialist, authoritarian fascism of Donald J. Trump. I can no longer in good conscience associate myself with this party. I have ceased all volunteer efforts and no longer consider myself in any way associated with this party. To me it is now just as evil and abhorrent as the Democrat Party has always been. Despite this horrible mistake, the Party has a rich and glorious history, and if it returns to its principles I may one day return to it.
For the time being though, I am choosing to associate myself with the Constitution Party (not officially of course, as I don't believe in that). Of all the parties out there, they best represent my beliefs now.

I will not choose between Hitler and Stalin. I would rather lose and oppose them both. I will not choose either evil.
Hillary and Clinton are part of the same group of socialists who want absolutely centralized power in the US. They are not picky about how they get it. They are giving us the choice between a communist and a fascist, and having us vote for whichever one we fear less. They are counting on us not realizing that they are working for the same side.
If we allow ourselves to be tricked into this false dichotomy, we will become like Europe. No offense to most of the Org, but in European countries you guys are given choices between parties that all want the same thing: complete government control and wealth redistribution, and you are fooled into believing you have a choice. You don't have a single choice that is not Socialism. That is what they are trying to do to America. They want to give us the choice between different flavors of Socialism to give us the illusion that we have choice and make us easy to manage cattle.

Write in, vote third party, do whatever seems to have the best chance to succeed as we get closer to election day. Do NOT choose evil. There will be no going back if we let them trick us into doing this.

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I miss the good ole days of the GOP, when they respected the principles of smaller government through large increases in military spending and the creation of the TSA.

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Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

I miss the good ole days of the GOP, when they respected the principles of smaller government through large increases in military spending and the creation of the TSA.

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I think you forgot the Department of Homeland Security.

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It was created in response to the September 11 attacks. In fiscal year 2011 it was allocated a budget of $98.8 billion and spent, net, $66.4 billion.
With more than 240,000 employees,[1] DHS is the third largest Cabinet department, after the Departments of Defense and Veterans Affairs.[6]

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(I know, in some ways it was just a new agency that was put atop already existing ones, but I'm sure it created a lot of additional jobs)