Artillary rules! An Agincourt test

In order to stiffen the determination of fellow artillary lovers, I've decided to test the proness of artillary facing some of the most elites troops in MTW---The French Knights. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/cool.gif

Four Demis were used but longbowmen wasn't included. two squad of Feudal Men At Arms and two squad of Feudal Sergeants was the core of my army. My missile contingent is consist of Pavise Arbalesters, Pavise Crossbowmen, Arquebusiers and Archers, one sqaud of each type. Two Mounted Sergeants plus one Feudal Knights is all the cavalry I have.

With Infantry as the first line, I put the guns immediately behind the food soldiers and the missile troops were placed there too. My cavalry is placed on the sidelines to avoid being flanked.

The French Army is, of course, mostly consisted of knights(Chosen by AI), they do have some infantry and missile troops, but over 60% is cavalry--- the best available(Gendarmes,Chivalric Knights, Royal Knights, Order Knights, etc)

The result is devestating---to the French The ranks of Knights were soon filled with vacancies as cannonballs kept hitting the French with great power. Soon the missile troops joined in and the sluaghter escaluates. When the knights reached my main line, they were a rag- tag band. However, the flanking power of cavalry is still remarkable as some of Arquebusiers were attacked, but my cavalry alleviates the situation.

In the end, the English emerged victorious with about three hundred losses. The French lost five hundred and further three hundred captured.

That wasn't a true test of artillery, but of the AI. Agincourt is full of woods, but i guess it didn't use it for cover. You should redo your test against a human opponent.

Artillery might give some advantage in some situations, but persoanlly i prefer the hear the much tastier sound of steel cutting flesh.

I agree: this is not scientific, and cannot be made into a general rule... However, you might be getting at something here http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/smile.gif

I'm not skillful enough for MP yet, but I think I'll have the chance soon.

As for the reason choosing the Agincourt map, my opinion is the same with you, VKC_Blutzeit. Most of the terrain is plain but there woods for cover so the cavalry should have a chance. I've avoided maps with many hills as that would let the defender's missiles and artillaries have an unfair advantage.

My main strategy is to avoid loss(Byz elite units are expensive) at all cost so I perfer long distance firepower, usually 40% of my army is missile troops.

To be fair, as a true AGINCOURT test, the woods should not be used, as after all the French didn't. If the French has flanked the English with foot troops, and then when the flanks of the English were engaged rode down the centre it might have been a very different outcome; sending some knights under the cover of the trees to further surprise the English might have added to the French victory.

Suddenly, I remember that there is one very important factor that I haven't take into account---weather. In the historical Agincourt, the ground was sodden and muddy due to rain so the French Knights was hindered by the mud. Is there any effect of rain in MTW that reflected this?
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/confused.gif

I think i've experience a similar situation where heavy snow was followed by rain. The foot units crawled. But then all of them were exhausted, so i'm not sure how much actually was due to weather conditions.

Another key element of the english victory was the improvised pikes used by the longbow men. Would be nice to have those in the game.

I have seen many references of agincourt in litterature, but does anyone know if the battle has been filmatized?

both film versions of Henry the V show the battle of Agincourt.

THe replay files can act as substitutes. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif I've just returned from my first MP game, but artillary wasn't allowed, so I can't do a test.

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Asimov @ April 28 2003,23:48)]THe replay files can act as substitutes. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif I've just returned from my first MP game, but artillary wasn't allowed, so I can't do a test.

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If you feel like doing a test of this on Agincourt and you see me online ({RVN}Vandal), gimme a holler and I'll host the game conditions you want Asimov http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/smile.gif

Should be fun, I like Artillery too http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif

PS Trying out historical formations which includes artillery can be great fun too http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/smile.gif

The best way to test online is to have a willing partner - such as Erik volunteering. You both can then have complete control of the scenario and can isolate on the unit match ups you want. Just decide on exactly what you want to test (do weapon upgrades for crossbows improve the unit's kill rate?, etc.) and then pick units accordingly to test your situation.

It is better on a LAN so you can shout commentry at each other...