Mercenary Changes Have Been Good

I like what CA changed with the mercenary units.

1. Allowing reshuffling of groups of mercenaries of the same unit type. So now you don't have to disband them after they get depleted.
2. Allowing retraining of mercenaries. You aren't stuck with their original armour and weapons, makes good sense.
3 Reducing the number to a reasonable level. In MTW there might be more than a dozen mercenary units in a newly conquired province. I always thought it a bit unfair to conjure up magic AI whipping armies this way, so I rarely bought any, except to get siege gear when I had none nearby.

I think these changes were a necessity for factions like Carthage, that historically relied on mercenaries with only a small core force.

Yes, I like the merc system, it's an improvement. BTW has anyone hired any especially rare or unique mercs like the Judean Zealots yet?

yeah I like them too. Just have to figure out how single hoplite units can work in conjunction with legionaries - speed differentials are confusing me.

can't wait to try out some slingers I just got though.

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Originally Posted by desdichado

yeah I like them too. Just have to figure out how single hoplite units can work in conjunction with legionaries - speed differentials are confusing me.

can't wait to try out some slingers I just got though.

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If you figure out the hoplites, let me know. By themselves they have been useless to me.

Those slingers are very deadly and have long range! I've been thinking about starting a thread to ask for historical info about slingers. I would expect them to be rather ineffective and short range, but they are monsters! I wouldn't think a hurled rock would be very dangerous to armoured troops past about 100 feet (annoying, yes, deadly, no), but they will cut down whole units of spearmen with shields, hoplites, etc. I'm surprised the topic hasn't been discussed--I might have missed it.

I kind of like the idea of having a hoplite merc unit but I think I'm just being sentimental. Good in a city fight though - when they get there.

There is a thread discussing slingers in the Colosseum and iirc their range was actually quite good and quite deadly. Also projectile had a flatter trajectory although I could quite easily be making that up and can't even remember now why that might be a good thing. If I find the thread i'll let you know.

they didn't use rocks, they used lead balls btw.

ah yes, speed of the shot was higher hence the flatter trajectory hence more killing power than an arrow over a given range. Sounds good anyway!

try this thread

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...light=slingers

Lead balls yes, but apparently they can also pick up rocks off the battlefield to use for ammo too, (so gamespy's strategy guide attests), which may mean they have an unlimited ammo supply?

Also, flater trajectory makes sense for slings, since you fire them out almost like guns, and thus would mean they are more akin to MTW arquibuses ('scuse the spelling) then to archers. Maybe they can hit your own men if too close, just like gunpowder weapons in MTW?

Colt.

I was using slingers when the help guy on the top told me specifically not to use them like archers or even javelin and pilum throwing units. Basically, don't put anything in between them and the enemy since they don't fire up and will hit the men in front of them.

The way I use mercenary hoplites is always to make them attack first. Once they are close to the enemy, I'll bring the other units to follow them. They're good for charging head on, especially in siege battles.

The Balearic slingers are quite good. I just got some Rhodian slingers and they seem to have the same stats. I just got Cretan archers as well but no battle to try them on as yet.

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Originally Posted by Red Harvest

If you figure out the hoplites, let me know. By themselves they have been useless to me.

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Put them behind your city gates and laugh when the enemies break through and charge straight into your spears. Either that, or put them in the streets where the enemy has no choice but frontal attack.

Yeah, i like the new merc system aswell, ive even seen the AI use em in numbers heh

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Originally Posted by Thoros of Myr

Yes, I like the merc system, it's an improvement. BTW has anyone hired any especially rare or unique mercs like the Judean Zealots yet?

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Haven't had the oppertunity to have Judean Zealots yet, as I've never had a general in the area around Jeruselem for long. I also don't know about the rarity of certain merc units but the most interesting ones I've are;
Sarmatian Merc cavalry- really sweet heavy cav unit with nice armour their 70% of a cataphract
Spanish mercs- very much like Illyrian ones ie skirmishers
Arab cavalry- has a bonus in desert warfare
Bedouin camels- not much different from the MTW version
Arab camel archers- haven't used them in battle or looked at their stats they just be cool
Cilician pirates- yet another merc skirmisher unit but these have harpoons instead of regular javelins.

Judean Zealots... Psycho must be jumping up and down of joy! ~;p

Aren't the Spanish mercs the weaker Hastati-like unit? They're useful.

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Originally Posted by andrewt

Aren't the Spanish mercs the weaker Hastati-like unit? They're useful.

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Yep, I've been buying them up in Spain as I slowly conquer the Spanish. They've performed reasonably well vs. infantry so that my cav can get the work done.

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Originally Posted by desdichado

I kind of like the idea of having a hoplite merc unit but I think I'm just being sentimental. Good in a city fight though - when they get there.

There is a thread discussing slingers in the Colosseum and iirc their range was actually quite good and quite deadly. Also projectile had a flatter trajectory although I could quite easily be making that up and can't even remember now why that might be a good thing. If I find the thread i'll let you know.

they didn't use rocks, they used lead balls btw.

ah yes, speed of the shot was higher hence the flatter trajectory hence more killing power than an arrow over a given range. Sounds good anyway!

try this thread

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...light=slingers

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Thanks for the info and the link. I've been ruminating about the kill speed effects, vs. missile unit accuracy. Right now the missile units are very deadly compared to MTW. In reducing the melee kill speeds, we might end up making ranged units much more powerful. I suspect both might need modded to rebalance.

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Originally Posted by Red Harvest

If you figure out the hoplites, let me know. By themselves they have been useless to me.

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I like to take one or two hoplite units with my Scipii army when assaulting a Greek or Carthaginian town. The enemy generals cav unit is dangerous but a phalanx defending in the street stops them cold. I have also had elephants charge an 80 man merc phalanx who soon repelled the beasts losing only 5 men. Battle difficulty was medium.

My experience with phalanx units has been very good although I should add that I always secure their flanks and usually put them on guard.

I really dislike the fact that not all unitss can be mercanaries (I think). If you can train it, then there should be a mercanrary version somewhere. And the green is a bit annoying... expectially when you and your enemy has a lot of mercs. But it is better than the inn way... this is a bit more realistic, and they show up more often.

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Originally Posted by Steppe Merc

I really dislike the fact that not all unitss can be mercanaries (I think). If you can train it, then there should be a mercanrary version somewhere. And the green is a bit annoying... expectially when you and your enemy has a lot of mercs. But it is better than the inn way... this is a bit more realistic, and they show up more often.

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Come on, can you imagine a Praetorian Guard as mercs? Or Sacred Bands? Some units are tied to their faction.

Another thing I like is that you find the mercs in appropriate regions...

Perhaps. But Cataphracts, and other heavy horsmen should be there. The only heavy horse mercs I've seen so far was the Sarmatians (at least there in the game, though they don't have their rightful faction). I just think that almost any unit, admidetly with a few exceptions, would be willing to be bought out. After all, the Vargarian Gaurds of the Byzantines were mercanaries, and they were an extremely elite guard unit.

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Come on, can you imagine a Praetorian Guard as mercs? Or Sacred Bands? Some units are tied to their faction.

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Well if the faction is eliminated it may not seem so odd that they can be recruited as mercenaries

There is probly a simple string of text that enables/disables units from showing up as mercenaries and another string where you can set native provinces.

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Originally Posted by Steppe Merc

Perhaps. But Cataphracts, and other heavy horsmen should be there. The only heavy horse mercs I've seen so far was the Sarmatians (at least there in the game, though they don't have their rightful faction). I just think that almost any unit, admidetly with a few exceptions, would be willing to be bought out. After all, the Vargarian Gaurds of the Byzantines were mercanaries, and they were an extremely elite guard unit.

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Most elite units were rather factionstrong, meaning they might not like their leader, but they were all for their home.
The Varangians started out as mercenaries, being actively hired in Russia, or Rus as it was known then. But as time went by, quite fast, it was widely known that the Byzantine Empire employed such warriors as they just came by themselves. It became more of an internal unit with the warriors recruited externally. Not really a mercenary position.

Yep and hes a historical member so listen up kids he knows what hes taling about :)

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Originally Posted by Red Harvest

If you figure out the hoplites, let me know. By themselves they have been useless to me.

Those slingers are very deadly and have long range! I've been thinking about starting a thread to ask for historical info about slingers. I would expect them to be rather ineffective and short range, but they are monsters! I wouldn't think a hurled rock would be very dangerous to armoured troops past about 100 feet (annoying, yes, deadly, no), but they will cut down whole units of spearmen with shields, hoplites, etc. I'm surprised the topic hasn't been discussed--I might have missed it.

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Historically at least they should trash archers. This is because their bullets are incredible, however, the problem is that it takes incredible skill just to shoot a bullet at reasonable accuracy. BTW there used to be a thread in the monastary discussing this topic but i can't find it will post link later :duel:

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Originally Posted by Swoosh So

Yep and hes a historical member so listen up kids he knows what hes taling about :)

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Hehe... Swoosh, I have called myself that. But for the same reasons... ~;)