How do you gain a Positive Management?

May be it's been mentioned before....but it seems the longer the game lasts the harder it is to have a good governor with decent Management. I have appointed a number of governors whose initial ratings are relatively decent. But as they continue building up the cities with very little idling around, they gain tons of traits, which generally signigicantly increase their Influence but just as significantly lower their Management. A governor who had started with a couple of Management marks turns into one with Management in the negative numbers. Also, the traits gained tend to penalize tax and income. Perhaps, Management and income/tax traits are influenced by the order in which the respective structures are built ( I tend to build docks, roads, forums first) or simply by the fact that the governor who rules a city for too long becomes too accustomed to its treasure and thus becomes corrupt. Any idea? :book:

One of the biggies is the size of your treasury. The "Wasteful" line of traits has triggers at 50k, 100k, and 150k denarii in the treasury at turn start (after the new turns income has been collected). So, if you've got more than 150,000 denarii in the treasury, each and every governor will check 3 times per turn to possibly pick up a point in that trait line.

Leaving your family members in a city with an academy or one of their higher tier versions, and youll find that not only do you tend to get the obviously helpful ancillary characters that increase your management and influence, but I also have noticed, and I'm sure it's not just me, that in a city with an academy or higher tends to grant your family members an occasionally beneficial trait as well. Another thing to do is to leave them in a town with a temple that is dedicated to "law", they will get some nice traits and the priest ancillary and depending on how well developed the temple is a few more ancillaries later on. Try to avoid having a large surplus of funds, and keep your governor's away from temples that promote "war" as they will always end up as "the wrathful" and keep them away from the "wine" temples and such as they tend to get anything from lewd to raging alcaholic type traits.

in vanilla RTW, academies DO NOT have any effect on traits. this is proven if you look at the relevant file in the data folder.

If academies do not affect traits, what is their purpose then? Better income/less squalor when a city doesn't have a governor? :book:

Well it depends on your viewpoint. Academies attract retinue members who will attach to your governor, thereby raising or lowering command, management, or influence. So not traits per se, but a definite impact on ability.

Overall, retinue members seem have a largely positive effect on the governors' ratings. However, all that is offset by many negative traits. In fact, the negative traits seem to overwhelm the few positive ones when it comes to Management and income. From I understand, an empire that generates large income is penalized for having all that money by breeding governors with wasteful traits. And it does not seem like there are any good solutions to develop governors with income/Management friendly traits when your empire grows in size. It often gets to the point where governors are only good for stabilizing a city's loyalty due to their Influence rating and once loyalty is under control, move the governor out so that a city's income wouldn't be diminished by a governor's many negative traits. A city without a governor often produces more money than a city with one due to an overwhelming number of income punishing traits. hrm, am I missing something? :book:

Traits come too thick and fast compared to MTW. Its quite rediculous.
The oposite should be happening imho. Someone who has successfully governed a city into a positive income for years should become more astute and adept at it - even becoming a teacher of it - no inefficient.

Its one real sore point for me. Im positive about most of the other stuff in TW

Very simple.

- Build
- Build
- Build
- keep your governors in your provinces.

Here's a good order: Public health buildings, Temples, Ports, Roads, Trade Buildings, learning center, farms ( The idea is don't stop building; however, you don't have to build many military buildings, just the basic ones when you run of structures to build).

Also, differentiate between an Economic Family member and a Military Family member. :charge:

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Originally Posted by Quietus

Very simple.

- Build
- Build
- Build
- keep your governors in your provinces.

Here's a good order: Public health buildings, Temples, Ports, Roads, Trade Buildings, learning center, farms ( The idea is don't stop building; however, you don't have to build many military buildings, just the basic ones when you run of structures to build).

Also, differentiate between an Economic Family member and a Military Family member. :charge:

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I always build. I have governors who have been governining same cities for years if not decades without respite in building. But most of them end up with high Influence and low Management (in fact, negative Management and traits that kill income). Differentiating between economic and military family members does not help either because even the ones who have Management marks upon entering adulthood at 16, in time, develop so many wasteful traits that even having retinues does not really help.

Sounds like your treasury is too high. I experienced that first hand, the first campaign I played as the Bruti. Every single governor I had got so many wasteful traits they lost any positive level of management they had. Try and keep your treasury under 50k. In fact, look at how much money you're projected to have at turn end, and try to keep THAT below about 47K, to allow for the random harvest variation. If you can't spend it all, have diplomats give it away to other factions.

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Originally Posted by Einherjer

I always build. I have governors who have been governining same cities for years if not decades without respite in building. But most of them end up with high Influence and low Management (in fact, negative Management and traits that kill income). Differentiating between economic and military family members does not help either because even the ones who have Management marks upon entering adulthood at 16, in time, develop so many wasteful traits that even having retinues does not really help.

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Ok. Some tips, general and on topic:

-Don't build too big an army. Don't spread too wide. Go for the coastlines too. Train your soldiers from the most populous cities (just make sure you have build the upgraded city level first). NEVER exterminate cities. If the city is over 20,000, a different culture and you have no immediate garrison, then enslave. A populous city is the key to nonstop constructions! Build the public health buildings first and foremost when you conquer a city.
- Get all the trade rights you can get.
- Switch retinues (I thought they killed this in 1.2. It still works!). Build economic temples as well.
- A sixteen year old governor is perfect! Put it this way: Every single one of your family member should be a governor. Those bad governors are the generals. That's what I do. It's what I meant by differentiating. As for the heir, I simply pick a young member that has no public order penalty (he always leads my main army). I also use bad governors to chase down rebels.
- Years is not nearly enough. Lifetime! ~:) Make sure your best governors are in the most profitable city.

I'm currently taking in ~120,000+ denari per turn net as the Brutii (yeah, they are filthy rich), with only ~30 provinces, so I know this works. I'm not selling maps or using protectorates either. :charge:

edit: I almost forgot. Use huge units!

I have notice that some of the traits are handed down from one generation to another. So, if I really get a bad 16 yr old or 18 yr old, I march them straight into battle and get rid of them. But, if they win, they become decent generals. Also, passing some of the retinues from one to another helps. So, there is a couple of ways of straightening out your hiers. If worst comes to worst, they have to be sacrificed in battle. Gives the family a good name.

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Originally Posted by jrutnet

I have noticed that some of the traits are handed down from one generation to another.

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Interesting. I have to check this out ~:) .

Actually you can just look at it in the DATA files (Activision\data\export_descr_character_traits)

That's everything you need. Study and change at your leisure. It is, in fact, one of the best place to cheat the game if you wish so. (Not necessarily.)

No, no academy trait benefits (I modded in some skills in myself; it's unreasonable not to have so.)

Too Big treasury or too luxurious cities (with some high-end non-military buildings involved.) result in bad people. I usually mod them out even if it's a cheat.

Some traits are passed down, yes. With about 20 chance each.

There is a ton of triggers that provides your new characters "different personality" when reach 16 that, how sad, usually bad. (Bad : Good Traits about 3:2)

Many traits rank up over time on their own (you have the original from birth, triggers, or daddy's gift.) You may born a small poet and become epic over time. (That is not good ~D )

Sitting around town suffers too. Better let them kill the rebels. (Even if they won't gain the stars.)

Never, ever build temples of love and drink.. the results are.. horrible.

Of all temples I think the Parthian one is the best. ~D It gives no negative traits. Many temples are good, though.

There is a deadly trigger about badtaxman (Useless Assessor - familiar?) I erased it for good. If you don't want to cheat, set the taxes at high or more all the time to avoid it.(except in a few circumstances.) This happens when you build any building with tax less than high (8-15% I can't remember.)

Some farmer and trader troubles. You need more experts or just cheat and erased them out like me.

There are other issues and bugs with several traits, refer to somebody else wiser than me. ~:cool: