Power Peasants - Wierd

Currently i'm playing a Brutii Campaign, and not that long ago i managed to get one of the Macedonian cities as part of a ceasefire deal and i razed everything in it to the ground, and it revolted in 2 turns. About 10 years after that, with fairly strained relations between me and the Macedonians (i've been destroying their armies one after another.. In fact the general that i placed there to defend my northern border is now 7 stars with the Superior Defender virtue (i think thats what it is.. the one that gives +4 command when defending), which really isn't bad.. he originally was a noname 2 star member married into the family...

After (finally) driving the Greeks from the mainland of Greece, i sent a few spies north to check out the Macedonians, their armies and their garissons and stuff, and was VERY suprised to find some extremely extremely powerful peasants.. (powerful to the point they were almost stronger than my unupgraded Principes). And what do you know... there are at least 10 units of triple GOLD chevron Peasants with GOLD shield and GOLD weapon. -.-' How on earth did those peasants get so strong? O.O

By planting certain "herbs" in their fields ~;) .

That's what can happen concerning revolts (happened to me many times) when you play on very hard/very hard ~D The AI just freakin cheats :charge:

But this was on Easy/Easy... Kinda ridiculous...

This was my first time trying to actually finish a short imperial campaign (I had like half a dozen quick games before that to test how units fought, how the game worked and stuff like that.)

The formula is quite simple

A rebellion get's xxx amount of denari. So when they go to spend that denari it has only peasants to train, peasants being so cheap makes the upgrades cheap. Now if there was a level 4 barracks there they probably would have gotten only 2 or 3 units out of it. To sum it up it can only get units that are trainable there and the rebels pay the same price they would for the units in custom battle.

Thinking of it in historical terms you sack a city loot it rape and kill, later a rebellion occurs and they kill people of your culture in revenge.

This is the counter to looting in RTW, whereas in Shogun and MTW the A.I. had no defense against the human looting land.

If you don't want a rebellion take the city loot it, then take a diplomat and gift it back to your enemy.

happened to me many times, one time my elite hoplite army was almost crushed by these kind of peasants.

It still makes no sense. When buildings are razed any further unit ( peasant ) production should not have upgrades. I too have seen this and I maintain that with no armourer etc, they can not produce the upgrades they get

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Originally Posted by The Hun

It still makes no sense. When buildings are razed any further unit ( peasant ) production should not have upgrades. I too have seen this and I maintain that with no armourer etc, they can not produce the upgrades they get

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The peasants could have been given a higher morale instead, as they probably think that they are "doing the right thing" :)

i think it's a mistake, in some part in the game, cause i never seem to get those power peasants.

I got an army of power peasants on Crete once. They are damn good!! The brutii kept sending small stacks of about 4-5 units, and i got the PP's and just swarmed the brutii armies. Quantity and quality combined makes for a great army.

Btw, the PP's had gold sword and shield and triple gold chevrons. Talk about neat!!

I've seen it before. They kicked the collective asses of several legionary cavalry I sent after them. The fact that they appear doesn't irritate me as much as the fact that they sometimes appear in a once-might city that's down to about 2000 population, but has a garrison of nearly 1600 troops and a public order of 70%.

i don't follow you anymore

Think of the power peasants as really pissed off patriots. They have no military training but have banded together to throw out the occupiers. A regular peasant couldn't care less about fighting. A pissed off rebel wants revenge and fights for his family and community.

I find this a nifty feature. It is certainly not a bug. Take a look at the reply regarding expenditure of denari and ability to produce. Create an experiment where you destroy everything but the practice range. I wonder if some power javelineers appear.

Regards.

Imagine if they were barb PP's... wwwwwoooooooooowwwwww.

If I take a city, kill all inside, then raze to ground there is no way I should see 20 gold everything peasants next turn. I just killed all inhabitants so where did they come from and where did they get their weapons and armour?

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Originally Posted by The Hun

If I take a city, kill all inside, then raze to ground there is no way I should see 20 gold everything peasants next turn. I just killed all inhabitants so where did they come from and where did they get their weapons and armour?

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Armies don't consist of 1/4 mile tall men either. Similarly, how can praying to a particular god make your arrows super sharp, your swords extra nifty, and your armor stronger then any forge could forge it?

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Originally Posted by Divinus Arma

Armies don't consist of 1/4 mile tall men either. Similarly, how can praying to a particular god make your arrows super sharp, your swords extra nifty, and your armor stronger then any forge could forge it?

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To upgrade my armies to gold status requires much buildings upgrade also. That AI can do this without the required buildings you find acceptable?

HEY HUN: Yes I do. Read this quote:

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Originally Posted by oaty

The formula is quite simple

A rebellion get's xxx amount of denari. So when they go to spend that denari it has only peasants to train, peasants being so cheap makes the upgrades cheap. Now if there was a level 4 barracks there they probably would have gotten only 2 or 3 units out of it. To sum it up it can only get units that are trainable there and the rebels pay the same price they would for the units in custom battle.

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This makes perfect sense. If they simply rebelled and had a handful of worthless peasants, how obnoxious would that be? Very! Many folks have complained about the "mini-armies" all over the board. BY creating powerless peasants, the program would be simply creating the same problem. Three units of hastati and some creten archers, or a full stack of peasants: which would you rather have for a battle?

Read my first post, there was NO rebellion. I took, slaughtered all, razed and then left.

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Originally Posted by Arrowhead

Imagine if they were barb PP's... wwwwwoooooooooowwwwww.

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or Egyptian PP

I'd rather have Barb's.

I can explain the huge amount of soldiers problem without affecting population. Maybe, it's because angry pissed off people from the surrounding towns and villages in the province come to join the main rebellion in the provincial capital.

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Originally Posted by The Hun

Read my first post, there was NO rebellion. I took, slaughtered all, razed and then left.

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I don't understand you. There WAS a rebellion. When you left, with no temple and no garrison, the province rebelled, and that's how those power peasants were created. It's the only way they come into existance.

Who rebelled? I exterminated populace

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Originally Posted by The Hun

Who rebelled? I exterminated populace

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It's a game!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You exploited the comp in a tactic it can't/does'nt use. So it's counter to your exploit is to have a huge rebellion in it's favour.

I only looted once in the game against Egyptians. "my diplomat" I'll give you Thebes Memphis and Alexandria for a ceasefire and you pay me xxx amount( I even negotiated down to a few 100 denari) in tribute. They would'nt accept the ceasefire.

So I looted them and left.

I've often wondered if a zergling tactic of taking all peasants and upgrading the bejeezus out've 'em would be useful in multiplayer. Suppose I'll have to try it, eventually.

Fear the swarm?

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Originally Posted by The Hun

Who rebelled? I exterminated populace

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These are the things that keep you people up at night?

It's a game for cryin' out loud. They came from the surrounding countryside, or they hid in the caves, whatever. Who cares?

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Originally Posted by The Hun

Who rebelled? I exterminated populace

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Did you kill every single man in the whole PROVINCE? How realistic that would be? Did you use Zyklon B or what?

Just think of it - you probably exterminated the population of the capital city of that province. Fine. But for God's sake, try to understand that there are more towns in Europe than one-per-province!

So just try to imagine, thse were locals from other towns and villages who rose against you. The city population was possibly 1% of the total province population. You killed that 1%, but possed of another 2% or so, the remaining 97% not having the clue of what was happening...

You do indeed get uber javelinmen. I once eleminated every living being in syracuse, and a few turns later it rebelled. And poof.. triple gold chevron, gold weapons+armour peltasts and greek militia cavalry. Extremely handy units, I tell you. Devestating.

Extermination only *kills* two-thirds of the population. And the rebel soldiers are taken from the populace itself.

I had a city that I occupied who won't revolt because they have so little people. There were riots but that's a different thing.

As for the power peasants (nice catchy name ~D ), I get them when the population is large and the buildings are destroyed. If the buildings are not destroyed, you get the elite army rebellions. (Not sure yet if it is limited to destroying the military buildings itself).

:charge: