Factions discussion...

I opened this space to discutions about factions...if the moderators permit it...
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This can be useful to people who don't know what's the game 21 factions announced by CA:

Certainly unplayable factions: 4
Papal States
Aztecs
Timurids
Mongols

Factions I'm almost sure will be playable: 11
England
France
Spain
Venice
Byzantium
Holy Roman Empire
The Egyptians
The Moors
The Turks
The Russians
Denmark

Factions that maybe can be playable: 6
Poland
Milan
Scotland
Sicily
Portugal
Hungary
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Poll question: Are you sactisfacted with the number of factions in MTW2?
My answer is Yes:2thumbsup: ...

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Will start with two questions: what faction you think should be in the game??( please elaborate the answer...)( and for God Sake don't make it nationalistic!)

and in your opinion what factions should be playable???(maximum 11 but i think maybe CA can raise it to 15...)

Voted no. Not because I think the game will be un-fun with only 21 factions, but because I'd like to see modders have the option to add more/different factions. So, while I've really don't have a gripe with the 21 factions that CA has announced, I very much hope they allow (and the engine can handle) 30 factions.

I defenitely hope they raise the faction limit. From their hinting at Mayans and Incans, it sounds like they have defenitely gone up from the original 21.

Why doesnt CA make all factions playable? They know the modders will make it that way.

Anyway, more factions= more diplomacy, more strategy, and more cities. So no.

Same here. What is the point of non playable factions? All should be playable and that is the first thing I will mod when MTW II is released

.........Orda

About the only factions I'd are Serbia, Lithuania, and some Muslim Perisan faction (I don't know enough about them to make a judgement on which).

Why Serbia?
Well of any possible Bulkan factions they could made different enough from Former Romania or Hungary to be intesting. And they were never more than a protectorate of Former Romania (unlike Bulgaria). Plus it's always good to have more orthodox factions in the game.

Why Lithuania?
Not having the eastern end of the map nothing but rebel provinces would be nice. Lithuania was a major regional power in the north east. WArring against the Russians, the Poles, and the Teutonic knights. Plus until the mid game they'd be pagan. So the idea of being able to convert from the old gods to eastern or western christianity or even Islam could be interesting.

Adding a Muslim Persian faction is good thing because we need more Muslim factions. The only one I know of is the Khwarizmian Shah's though. But they might be off the map.

i choose the third choiceee even i think that the papal states and the aztecs should be playable

There are so many factions which can be included so I that CA will raise faction limit to 30.
Current list certainly misses muslim factions.
Several factions can be split up into two:
like:
Spain - Castile, Aragon
Holy Roman Empire - into dynastic lines: Habsburgs, Vitelsbahs, Luxembourgs etc.
Russians - Muscovy, Novgorod
Turks - Seljuks, Ottomans (they are not the same!!)

Aslo would like to see more diversity in cultures. So far it seems very western-european.

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Originally Posted by Herkus

There are so many factions which can be included so I that CA will raise faction limit to 30.
Current list certainly misses muslim factions.
Several factions can be split up into two:
like:
Spain - Castile, Aragon
Holy Roman Empire - into dynastic lines: Habsburgs, Vitelsbahs, Luxembourgs etc.
Russians - Muscovy, Novgorod
Turks - Seljuks, Ottomans (they are not the same!!)

Aslo would like to see more diversity in cultures. So far it seems very western-european.

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I'm almost sure that Aragon will be rebel....and Spain will be Leon and Castille territories...seen in an screenshot
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They say in the site that the HRE will suffer with serious civil wars from time to time....'cause of power descentralization...
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Russians will be Novgorod in the game...Muscovy wasn't powerfull at 1080...
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Ottomans just appear after a long time of game...so the Turks represent all Turk tribes and Ethnies...at the start you're sedjkid....

More factions: more complexities, more wars, more struggles, more diplomacies, more cities = more fun. More faction limits: more mods, more flexibilities, more fun mods = more fun. So no.

And they really should just make everyone playable. It makes absolutely no sense to penalize the average gamer who doesn't go to forums and get that First Mod That Comes Out to unlock all the factions like, a day after the release. I mean, in Rome, they even block out freakin' Macedon! As if that nation is somehow not important to the history of the period. Yeah...

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Originally Posted by AntiochusIII

More factions: more complexities, more wars, more struggles, more diplomacies, more cities = more fun. More faction limits: more mods, more flexibilities, more fun mods = more fun. So no.

And they really should just make everyone playable. It makes absolutely no sense to penalize the average gamer who doesn't go to forums and get that First Mod That Comes Out to unlock all the factions like, a day after the release. I mean, in Rome, they even block out freakin' Macedon! As if that nation is somehow not important to the history of the period. Yeah...

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in this point I have to agree...but im happy with 21 anyway...and I think 15 playable faction would be the ideal...Papal states is like senate, can't be playable...and emergent/new world factions can't too...

I'm wondering if it would be possible for modders to cut out the Aztecs and Mayans altogether (and any other Amerindian factions if they make an appearance) and use those faction slots for more important European factions that CA left out. If so those otherwise unnecessary factions could be useful after all.

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Originally Posted by MaximianusBR

Russians will be Novgorod in the game...Muscovy wasn't powerfull at 1080...

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No, Muscovy only became powerful after the Mongol conquests which left Kiev and other cities in ruins, but before that Kiev was the most powerful Russian city, certainly more powerful than Novgorod at this stage, and the original Russian state. If CA is unwilling to allow more than one Russian faction, then Kiev should be the one, not Novgorod.

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Originally Posted by Perplexed

No, Muscovy only became powerful after the Mongol conquests which left Kiev and other cities in ruins, but before that Kiev was the most powerful Russian city, certainly more powerful than Novgorod at this stage, and the original Russian state. If CA is unwilling to allow more than one Russian faction, then Kiev should be the one, not Novgorod.

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Your not getting it. Factions like The Russians, The Spainish, The Egyptians, and the Turks. Even the HRE to a certain extent, aren't frozen in time. The dynasties change, just not overtly, as time goes on. The Spanish faction is the Spainish as an ethnic Identity, not a kingdom. So it's all Spainish factions minus Aragon or Portugal. The Turks represent the Seljuks and the Ottomans. The Egyptians are Saladins dynasty then the Mamluks. The Russians are Kievan Rus then Muskovy. The HRE changes from the Vitelsbahs HRE to the Habsburg HRE. That's the way CA did it in MTW. For the Turks when the game went from high to late eras you changed fro playing the Seljuk Turks to the Ottoman Turks. The HRE dynasty changes from Vitelsbah to Habsburg when you get to the high or late era.

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Originally Posted by lars573

Your not getting it. Factions like The Russians, The Spainish, The Egyptians, and the Turks. Even the HRE to a certain extent, aren't frozen in time. The dynasties change, just not overtly, as time goes on. The Spanish faction is the Spainish as an ethnic Identity, not a kingdom. So it's all Spainish factions minus Aragon or Portugal. The Turks represent the Seljuks and the Ottomans. The Egyptians are Saladins dynasty then the Mamluks. The Russians are Kievan Rus then Muskovy. The HRE changes from the Vitelsbahs HRE to the Habsburg HRE. That's the way CA did it in MTW. For the Turks when the game went from high to late eras you changed fro playing the Seljuk Turks to the Ottoman Turks. The HRE dynasty changes from Vitelsbah to Habsburg when you get to the high or late era.

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agree

Vitelsbah? You mean Hohenstauffen? Or Saxon?

I'm hoping all the already confirmed factions that exist at the start date will be playable. If they add one single faction, I would want it to be Lithuania. I'm also assuming that the Swiss and Burgundians emerge later in the game, as they did in MTW.

I don't care one way or another about the playability of American factions. I know I wouldn't even want to play them, and I wish the Americas weren't reachable in the game at all.

Considering how easy it was to make non-playable factions in RTW playable (simply cutting and pasting their position in a single text file), I'm not really concerned about who they make initially playable, but it would be nice to have some proper victory conditions and whatnot.

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Originally Posted by B_Ray

I'm also assuming that the Swiss and Burgundians emerge later in the game, as they did in MTW.

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It would be good to be added...

Swiss faction? I know id play that.

IMHO Eastern Europe lacks factions. I would like to see Serbs there and in my not very humble opinion there should be Bulgaria,too. Why? It's true it didn't existed in 1080 but Bulgarians lived in a large part of the empire and they already had almost five centuries state tradition (from 681 to 1018) and many rebellions against the Byzantine government. So definately Bulgarians can not be playable but should be included as a faction ( like Burgundy in MTW) ready to emerge if the ruler is not careful. I miss Aragon (oops maybe it does not existed at that time), Swiss and probably Burgundy, too. And more Eastern factions,please.
To sum up the number of factions should be increased.

IMO I dont see why they have to hardode a 21 limit max, couldnt they just raise the limit to say 30, so that modders can have freedom. CA dont have to add any more to Medieval, and Modders then will love the modding potential of Medieval 2, effectively putting both parties in benefit, CA getting better reputation among the community, and modders having more freedom...

Regards
Lentonius

From what CA has implied the 21 faction hardcode was for min spec. More factions=bigger load on the CPU and ram (thus needing more of it) of the computer running the game.

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Originally Posted by lars573

Your not getting it. Factions like The Russians, The Spainish, The Egyptians, and the Turks. Even the HRE to a certain extent, aren't frozen in time. The dynasties change, just not overtly, as time goes on. The Spanish faction is the Spainish as an ethnic Identity, not a kingdom. So it's all Spainish factions minus Aragon or Portugal. The Turks represent the Seljuks and the Ottomans. The Egyptians are Saladins dynasty then the Mamluks. The Russians are Kievan Rus then Muskovy. The HRE changes from the Vitelsbahs HRE to the Habsburg HRE. That's the way CA did it in MTW. For the Turks when the game went from high to late eras you changed fro playing the Seljuk Turks to the Ottoman Turks. The HRE dynasty changes from Vitelsbah to Habsburg when you get to the high or late era.

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Because the piece I quoted mentioned Novgorod, I thought it might be obvious that I was speaking about the Early Period (at least it might be obvious to someone who played MTW). Maybe the setup in that game has been so hardcoded into my mind that I forgot to clarify my points, but I wasn't even touching on the multiple-dynasty theory, I was talking about how the Kievan Rus should be included in the Early Period instead of Novgorod because Kiev was more historically important. I wasn't talking about how Kiev should be a different faction from Muscovy. Is that clear now?

However, I do agree with the idea that nations shouldn't be named on basis of dynasty, unless those two dynasties coexisted for a time, (like the Seljuks and Ottomans).

i voted no, first of all it gets boring after a while because there is only so much you can do with each faction, and secondly whats the point of having factions in the game IF YOU CANT BE THEM, i want to be the damn mongols and vikings and the scottish, you know the awsome ones, quit limiting it to the same old factions, put some interesting ones in there, and lastly put all the real factions that were around then, it only makes sense if you are going for reality

Castilla and Aragón were not the same. There was even a little state called Navarra, but it's too small to be a faction in the game.

The fact is Castilla and Aragón didn't become "Spain" until fifteenth century.

About the other factions... Maybe it's enough. I don't know much about Denmark but... :smiley:

do u think it will be possible in this game to be able to play as emeging factions like the mods in BI

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Originally Posted by lars573

From what CA has implied the 21 faction hardcode was for min spec. More factions=bigger load on the CPU and ram (thus needing more of it) of the computer running the game.

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That's a good enough reason to have only 21 factions in the vanilla game but not a reason to limit what mods can do.

I want a playable faction for each area. Every playable faction should be very different and have unique technology trees and units. The other factions should be there just to add some extra challenge and improve the diplomacy (hopefully)

I liked in RTW how there are several different cultures. (Greek, Roman, Barbarian, Eastern, Egyption) And each one has a different style of warefare.

I'd like to see lots of different cultures with one or two playable factions in each. (As well as a couple of nonplayable ones)

I think they should include Ireland as we were independent until 1169, and the game starts in 1080.

The reason factions like Ireland and Wales aren't playable is because they didn't present a significant threat to other kingdoms during the time period. Nobody was making political alliances with them or anything, and they were weren't launching full scale invasions on other countries, so its sufficient to represent them as rebels in the game.

Don't think I would mind if CA were to make every single province occupied by a playable faction, but I don't consider worth delaying the game for.

Thats nice amount of playable factions. It would be anyway better if there were more playable factions.