Are the Mongol and Timiruids too powerful?

Alright currently playing as England in VH/VH and the Mongols after fighting the Turks and Russia, and have 5 armies with 10 star generals still intact. They began moving west and making way to Denmark controlled by me. Is it just me or is the game a little too generous to the invaders? I mean come on 0 upkeep? I mean once they get a "new" homeland why don't those armies disband or something? It's such a pain to have to fight uber armies full knowing anything I throw at them won't stand a chance. And the Timiruids are more annoying. As Venetia they managed to take most of the Holy land from me and their elephants refuse to die. That and in one battle my infrantry (Men at Arms, Venetian Infrantry, Dismounted knights) were slaughtered against their archers, I mean when is that supposed to make sense? That and some times during sieges they take forever to move and the timer takes a good hour and a half to allow me to win.

I agree, right now I'm playing as HRE and it seems like there is no point attacking their stacks. Defending bridges or settlement is the only way I got victories so far.

Hell no. They are just as hard as they should be IMO. They provide a real challenge, something this game doesn't have a lot of...

Those are major events in the game, those and GUNPOWDER (!!!).
So I'll go with... Hell no.

As England it should be a lot of fun, stakes, gold English Knights (dismounted) backed by gold LBs.

The only difficulty they provide against me is the lag on the battlemap due to the sheer amount of units involved, but they tend to get cut down just as easily as other AI armies in open field battles or other situations. I just prefer open field battles personally as the attacker ~:)

Simply use a cav heavy army with 1 or 2 ballistae and you should be fine.

I find that a fair fight in open battle against them is 3 of your high end armies to 2 of theres.
Good and better units only, and always fully upgraded.

Never engage these guys in flatland, they'll kill you before you even say "Charge!"...

They haven't dealt with me yet, playing as HRE, turn 105.

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Originally Posted by edyzmedieval

Never engage these guys in flatland, they'll kill you before you even say "Charge!"...

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Rather the other way around. Really depends on your general, your troops and their experience and your tactics.

In vanilla, I think they're appropriate. This game needs a serious challenge-occasionally you might lose a battle, but for almost all experienced players, there is NEVER a moment where you think, "Wow, I might actually lose the whole game." If I lose a territory, I usually have 30 others and 300k bank to take it back. Beefed up invading factions force the player to pay attention to his tactics.


However, I'm playing Lusted's Lands to Conquer mod, which beefs up campaign AI-they have a lot more money and build lots more advanced units and buildings, which is awesome. I have great things to say about the mod and it's definitely a lot more fun than vanilla. However, it doesn't look like the Mongols got any sort of upgrade, as the Turks have been whipping them any time they actually manage to take a city. Can't really complain, since every faction in this mod is as dangerous as the invading factions.

They aren't that bad at all as long as you fight conservatively and don't except to go rambo and charge in with your whole army at their general from the start of the battle

@Discoman:
If you are playing on VH/VH, it seems you are looking for a significant challenge, so be happy that you found one. :laugh4:

My first few campaigns in MTW2 were M/M, and I was disappointed with the absence of long term challenges. The Mongols & Timurids should have filled that role but alas they were rather anemic. Mongol armies are indeed tough, but initially they cannot replenish their losses. And if you put several beefy armies in their neighborhood, they'll be afraid to settle down.

I'd look forward to the Mongols on harder levels except I am burned out on the game's inexaustible array of "features" that don't work as intended. :wall:

Absolutely not, I'm playing as Venice on VH/H, around turn 100 and they're the only dudes even close to standing up to my crossbow and spear-heavy stacks. i'm currently shepherding them around in the mountains near Yerevan(?) and there's a war of attrition going on. I've decided to use guerilla tactics to take out as many as possible before the reinforcing stack arrives and withdraw...just had a major duke-up at a river gorge where they took out my faction heir with a rocket.

that river's going to run red with mongol blood when I can get an avenging brother of his up there with some fresh troops.

haven't encountered the timurids yet but if they're as tough as these steppe raiders it'll be worth the wait:beam:

I think a fun goal in the game to achieve is to become such an economical and military superpower that by the time the Mongols and Timurids invade, you can fight them. Imagine it as though they own a land mass the size of europe and have sent their army to get Europe. An Army built to conquer Europe, and you have to stop them. Fun. :-):2thumbsup:

Hi. Im just new to the forum but have read it for awhile.
Well anyway back on to the topic i just recently played a game as Scotland and didnt expand very far outside England and now ive discovered the America. But in that time the Mongols have taken everything between Bruges and Volga Bulgaria not counting the Middle east. Im sure they are going to swoop in on Italy and france where the remaining Christian factions continue to attack each other in petty wars. The Mongols have already destroyed the most powerful factions in my game leaving the small weak states and now the Timurids arrived in the middle east it seems the world will be split between the Mongol factions. im secure on my island stronghold but i dont really know for how long.

Playing as the turks i had no problem with the mongols, thanks to my huge coffins i was able to support countless amounts of mercenaries. After twenty turns i was able to drive the mongols of but with huge losses.

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Originally Posted by Darth Revan

Playing as the turks i had no problem with the mongols, thanks to my huge coffins i was able to support countless amounts of mercenaries. After twenty turns i was able to drive the mongols of but with huge losses.

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Where do you unlock the necromancer faction? :wink2:

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Originally Posted by FactionHeir

Where do you unlock the necromancer faction? :wink2:

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Maybe he has so much money that he had to use coffins instead of coffers. ~;p After all both is a kind of wooden chest ... ~;)

The Mongols and Timurids are a challange, but a very stupid one.
I'd like them if they were more like the Huns in BI.
All these lvl6 full stacks with 10dread generals is just stupids.

I once had a superior number of Norman knigs, both mounted and dismounted, against a few inexperienced Mongol militia units with an uber-general.


I lost.
No, I didn't place the units back to the enemy.

And that just shows how important generals can be with his awesome bonuses not to mention his bodyguard

Correct. +10 Dread general is a freak. Only it costs you all your global reputation and more to get him there.

Not really. You can have a large treasury and sit a general in a town not building church buildings (or moving out on completion) on VH taxes and for his very first battle kill 90%+ of the enemy army (includes prisoners). No need to execute/terminate/sack. The above way also gets you a high dread general.
Note in battles only the first battle matters. IIRC you cannot get BattleChivalry once you got BattleDread and vice versa except by sitting your general in battle not doing anything + lose the battle.