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http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default...=178&nid=13106
There we go again.
Jeruzalem is a holy city for 3 religions, why on earth do they insist on holding it there? Is this mutual respect? Is it just me or do gay people enjoy being disliked. This is nothing more then a provocation if you ask me, shouldn't expect any pity from me if they are attacked, they pretty much deserve it.
opinions?
So no religious parades should be allowed in San Fran or Sydney?
Retards. They could do this sort of thing in Tel Aviv or several other cities without trouble, but that's apparently not offensive enough.
ehhhhhh, are you sure you don't see the difference?Quote:
Originally Posted by Papewaio
Well they surely shouldn't do any religious parades where I'm living
Why on earth do they do gay parades anyway? It's not like there are any heterosexual parades ... atleast not here
I respect the statement they are making, and more power to them for choosing to go in this dangerous place.
The statement that their right to shake their tails is more important then centuries old traditions of millions and millions of people in the world? If they do da boom they have it comming, if you insist on provocing don't cry if it works, almost hoping for it to happen serves them right. There is such a thing as taking it too far, how can they possibly think this aids their cause?Quote:
Originally Posted by CountArach
Tolerance and respect are not one way streets.
They started out in Sydney when people still thought that gay bashing was an okay activity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stig
It was a way of quite honestly stating that they were queer and that they were proud of it... rather then having to live a dishonest life and be ostracized or worse if they came out of the closet.
Nowadays in Sydney it is more of a party and parade... like an adult version of St Patricks... beer, frocks and a more wide selection of fairies not just green ones.
Yes, they have the right to Freedom of Speech.Quote:
The statement that their right to shake their tails is more important then centuries old traditions of millions and millions of people in the world? If they do da boom they have it comming, if you insist on provocing don't cry if it works, almost hoping for it to happen serves them right. There is such a thing as taking it too far, how can they possibly think this aids their cause?
Well actually that is my point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Papewaio
I agree in principle that they should be able to do it in Jerusalem, too- but considering the situation it's a very, very bad idea. If you were the organizer would you pick a place that's going to provocate the 2 major religions in the area and could very well lead to violence, even if you could do it in other places in Israel without trouble?
Do you also think it's a good idea to hold an Orange march through an Irish catholic suburb?
Wanna bet for a crate of beer where the first suicide bomber strikes? ~DQuote:
I agree in principle that they should be able to do it in Jerusalem, too- but considering the situation it's a very, very bad idea. If you were the organizer would you pick a place that's going to provocate the 2 major religions in the area and could very well lead to violence, even if you could do it in other places in Israel without trouble?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
Funny definition of tolerance and respect that if someone states their sexuality they deserve to be attacked for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
I think sexuality lies somewhere between gene and meme, it lies somewhere between ethnic group and religious affiliation in the ability to choose what you belong to.
Would you think it okay for a Muslim, a Jew or a Christian to be beaten up for it for walking around with their respective holy books?
Would it be okay for a St Patricks parade to be car bombed?
A black civil rights march to be set upon?
What respect are these guys giving religious people? Nothing, it's a deliberate slap in the face.You got me wrong, not because of their sexuality, but because their intention is provocation pure and simple. If they do this they shouldn't be surprised if someone picks up the glove. Should they be legally allowed to do this, yeah, law is law. But why there, out of all places that one? Is your definition of mutual respect 'something we must have for other people'? Millions of people are going to be deeply grieved by this, and all because they want to be the centre of attention. Should it be allowed, yes. Should they want it, hell no. Plenty other places where they can whag their tails, without insulting anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Papewaio
It depends on what you rate higher, the gays' rights to have a parade in any place or the religious peoples' right to not have any gays in their holy place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
Since almost nobody would think the latter is actually a right and religious people are usually seen as nuts today, guess who wins...
Of course gays should be allowed in holy places, that's not the point. It's not a matter of law it's a matter of decency and respect. This is about as decent and respectful as pissing on someone's mother's grave. When you visit a mosk you take of your shoes. When you visit a church you don't yell. When you visit a holy city you behave because it's important for a lot of people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
Behaving like this in a holy place has nothing to do with respect. In Amsterdam you can do this. In San Fransisco you can do this. So do it there.
I am not angry because the law allows it, I am angry because they want it in the first place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
there...you just answered the question yourself....
"Should it be allowed, yes. Should they want it, hell no."
it is not ANYONE´s place to say what other people should want or not want.......if it should be allowed it should be allowed...no IF´s!
and that my friend...makes this..
case ******* closed.
Well, I think if God doesn't want them to dance around in his holy place, he'll surely find a way to rain on their parade...:juggle2:
Ahh a bit of the good old smiting eh?
I agree that it's no-ones business what they do. However I would think this unnecessarily provocative.
Well, I find mosquitos in my room unnecessarily provocative - that's why I kill them as good as I can.:sweatdrop:
:idea2: how the hell did I forgot that!....you´re absolutelly right!Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
what better way for God to make his/hers/it´s presence felt then by making it rain ice the size of watermellons on these heathens??? :smash:
certainly the fact that this will have to happen in Jerusalem in the middle of the summer will pose no problem for the almighty :laugh4: ....anything less would surelly have to be considered as a pro-gay stance from the "man upstairs" and that wouldn´t be cricket now would it? :laugh4:
Fragony makes a very good argument to the point where I am a hair away from agreeing with him ( the "Behaving like this in a holy place has nothing to do with respect.")
However my disdain for religion, and thier holy places has trumped my attempt at a reasoned approach to this (again the haze is clearing). I dont have a particular like or dislike for homosexuals, if they want to march and its within thier rights to do so, yep have at it.
That doesn't take away from the fact that excersing the right in this case is an incredibly stupid thing to do. I see it as provocating for the sake of provocating, hence my comparison with the Orange marches.Quote:
Originally Posted by Odin
LOL. That sounds like straight out of Terry Pratchett. :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneApache
thats one way to look at it, or it could be viewed as maximizing the location, and the sentiment to garnish awareness for Gay rights. What better place to illustrate intolerance then at a major religous site?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kralizec
It really depends on what side of the coin you want to view.
Would you and I be discussing this if the parade was in San Fran ?
Im afraid thats exactly what may happen. Of course they will claim it was gods will at least that they got murdered.Quote:
Well, I think if God doesn't want them to dance around in his holy place, he'll surely find a way to rain on their parade.
These guys wanted to hold a parade in Mecca lol. Guess what. It aint happening. Theres only one reason to hold this parade in Jerusalem and thats to stuff it in the face of religion. Dont these people realise this hurts their cause. Its as dumb as the Palestinians suicide bombing the Israelis. Its counter productive and just pisses every body else off.
A correction here to this logic. Jerusalem the city is NOT a holy place. There are several locations in the and around the city that are considered holy in some respects to the 3 religions in question, but the city itself is not one major shrine or temple. I saw no reference in the article of the path taking them directly past the Wailing Wall or anything along those lines. Even if it did, I doubt I'd care.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
As for the view of this being "provacative", my thoughts are that I disagree. The city does indeed have multiple sites of religion significance to the 3 major monotheistic religions, so what? It sounds like they are making a point to do this in that city to demonstrate solidarity and determination. The whole "this is provacative and they are asking to be attacked" argument sounds awfully close to the "she got raped because she was dressing like that" one.
How about reason 1a. Press coverage? Maybe i'm jaded from living in Mass but the gay rights movement has some savvy people who understand the value of press.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
Again, we wouldnt be talking about this if it was in San Fran
And your missing my point that this hurts them not helps them. Most people find this repulsive. I would have the same opinion if say Howard Stern were to hold a parade with the kind of people he has on his show. You dont need to parade your sexuality about in the streets, I dont care what your sexual persuasion is.Quote:
How about reason 1a. Press coverage? Maybe i'm jaded from living in Mass but the gay rights movement has some savvy people who understand the value of press.