If it's not clear I'm not blaming you in any way -- I never asked. Just got too distracted by other things/too lazy/too not wanting to have a fight maybe, even. Going up against Methos/Beskar/ATPG while dead would have been rather difficult.
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If it's not clear I'm not blaming you in any way -- I never asked. Just got too distracted by other things/too lazy/too not wanting to have a fight maybe, even. Going up against Methos/Beskar/ATPG while dead would have been rather difficult.
The thing that annoys me the most is that none of the town really utilised their night abilities; I sent a PM to investigate, but it was completely useless because it relied on Double A doing the same and I couldn't inform him to do so because his inbox was full. Then I died shortly thereafter. Factor in the fact it was an utter mission contacting Nusrat as is and it was an entirely wasted venture.
There wasn't enough active town participation either, whereas one of the mafia and the Serial Killer were two of the most active players here; it's a surprise it hasn't ended already.
Yeah, but you shouldn't really assume all the players are aware of that. That was my mistake.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beskar
Just need Thermal to vote for Methos and then we can end the game and discuss roles and such a little further. :3
Or TM can vote the mafia, AVSM and town wins.
Your guilt's in-thread already, but if you wish to play ball, Thermal needs only consider this:
AVSM was called up to perform a song in front of everyone and was shown to be Kurt Cobain performing an obscure song which correlates with other role PMs including your own; compare that to Methos who you know nothing about beyond his posted YouTube video of Tammy Wynette's most famous song.
Tammy Wynette is female and blonde, same as the remaining mafia too. The choice is clear, Thermal; you can win this game for town by voting Methos. :3
vote methos
The Rock & Roll Hall of Fame end of day five
As Hannah walked up to the lynch she realised the Disney mafia had blown it, they had failed to eliminate all the Hall of Famers and good music would live forever.
Town take second place with a minor victory
Disney mafia are defeated
Tally:
Methos: 2 (AVSM, TM)
TM: 1 (Methos)
End of game, thank you to all for playing. Any tips on how I could improve game balance or my hosting in general would be much appreciated. I really saw this game as an excuse to post loads of music videos, kinda like the "What are you watching right now" thread in game form, and to get a bit of hosting experience in the process.
I enjoyed the game to be honest, but I feel that the town let itself down and only won due to a combination of mafia overconfidence, the rick-roller's victory conditions and two dead townies.
I wouldn't mind seeing full Role PMs to see exactly who had what ability and why said abilities weren't used. Some of them could have changed the entire course of the game if used.
I have GOT to stop using Methos as a default confidante just because he's there. :) At least with anyone else I'll have to come up with actual reasons. (Which may be right or wrong, but at least they'll be reasons!)
Beskar actually told me about ATPG during the day before I was killed. I waited for him to say something about it in public, and he didn't. So I figured one or the other one of them must be playing somebody, which implied most likely one or the other of them was mafia. An outside chance was that Beskar might be an investigator with a result on AtPG he wanted someone else to reveal -- that's what kept *me* silent. During the night, though, I figured I had to tell someone, as Beskar still hadn't said anything and I thought it was possible I might be killed due to not taking the cue he had given me.
I chose Methos. Told him everything except my "investigator" suspicions, and wound up dead for it.
So basically that first morning after dying I had my list of Beskar, ATPG, Methos, but I didn't know what to do with it. Just saying "vote these three" without being able to provide any reasons for it seems so cheesy, you know?
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Yes, I think the same applies to me for Beskar, really.
I'm surprised that Double A was the only person who approached me during the course of me being alive though; did people think I was posting the lyrics to Hallelujah for the good of my health? It was only when I mentioned Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan outright that I was approached in the first place! xD
Also, I was informed that the three of them (Pizza, Beskar and Methos) were basically working together from the start. Town was lucky to get a minor victory, really.
I'm curious how things would have been different if Beskar hadn't posted like he did in the thread. Originally Pizza was supposed to kill me to fulfill his VC and I agreed to it. Beskar then changed his mind and told ATPG to kill Beskar instead. I'm guessing it was due to Beskar stating what he did in the thread. I had long since unsubscribed to the thread and wasn't paying attention to the game.
Nothing to do with Mafia overconfidence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Secura
Couple of reasons, the main reason is, I didn't think it was fair of me to ship you down salty creek, so if one of us had to die, I chose myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Methos
Main problem with the game was infact a couple of "standard rules" keep getting missed out in newer games, which brings a return to old problems and loop-holes. Pretty hard to compete against a Town-Information Network of dead players, which is the main reason there was the standard rule of "The Dead do not share anything out of thread" "the Dead do not reveal after death" and other such things.
There was some intentional deceit on the host side as well, in regards to Pizza. If this information was even made available earlier to him, the outlook of the game would have been different, with either me or Methos dying earlier or a total victory in all three of us won.
Why did you post in-thread then in a manner which essentially revealed you as mafia? Myself, Pizza, Methos and the host all interpreted that as overconfidence, but only you can truly say why you did it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beskar
ATPG had already informed me about his VC and he wanted to see if I was okay with him murdering me. I agreed to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beskar
:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Beskar
There never was a network of dead players; JHT instructed me that I wasn't allowed to reveal things to Renata, and vice versa, thus she didn't tell me about her suspicions because she wasn't permitted to do so. You'll also notice that despite the fact that Methos, Pizza and yourself all came clean to me in-thread, I didn't mention that whatsoever; instead, I utilised everything in my power as a dead player to get people to reveal who they were so we could sort out who was who.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beskar
If we hadn't been permitted to speak whatsoever, then the game would have been lost after myself and Renata died in Night Two, and it would have been pointless continuing it. Would you have preferred that?
There could never have been total victory for the three of you; either you and Methos won outright or Pizza did.Quote:
There was some intentional deceit on the host side as well, in regards to Pizza. If this information was even made available earlier to him, the outlook of the game would have been different, with either me or Methos dying earlier or a total victory in all three of us won.
Pizza kept you both alive for his own reasons; the extent to which he hoodwinked you in Shadow Fort and the whole Pizza-Methos teté-a-teté from games such as Swords and D20s 3.
This was emphatically not a factor. Secura tried to talk to me out of thread after we were both killed, but I wanted permission from JHT first (which never came; she forgot, and he wouldn't have said yes anyway), so nothing ever came of it. She had her own reasons to be suspicious of you personally; and I had near-ironclad reasons to be suspicious of all three of you. I never told Secura about that, though. I held back that first post-death day out of uncertainly over what I could say, for which I apologize to the town, though I'm not sure I could have made it stick without being able to give reasons. And as above, it's against my nature not to give reasons; it feels cheesy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beskar
For the last day, Secura had come up with the right line of attack against Methos (on her own), and that sealed it.
Yet, you did. You pm'd all your suspects and what people claimed to you in private with eachother, said what Renata claimed to you, etc. This is what you said yourself to me, when you thought I was town.Quote:
Originally Posted by Secura
Yes there is, look at Victory conditions. We only had to kill the town to win, Pizza only had to kill 3 people. They were both compatible.Quote:
There could never have been total victory for the three of you; either you and Methos won outright or Pizza did.
I don't remember talking bodies in CSI.Quote:
If we hadn't been permitted to speak whatsoever, then the game would have been lost after myself and Renata died in Night Two, and it would have been pointless continuing it. Would you have preferred that?
Oh right, there were the claims that did go back and forth. That was inappropriate, yes.
Well, Renata got a half-list rather than my full one, a half-list that had already been PM'd to other players prior to my death, I might add; this was before I had confirmation from the host that I wasn't to reveal anything, and Renata can attest that I did not give her the full list.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beskar
Again though, you make the assumption that I had you down as a townie, when in fact the only one of the scum trio who slipped me by for most of the game was Methos, in his traditional lurker fashion. Funnily enough, one of the main reasons that I found you suspicious was the fact that you didn't reveal Pizza to the town when he slipped up with his role claim, which Renata also found suspect.
Then the game was not balanced; three mafia against eight/nine town... you'd win within a few phases, utterly pointless. The host clearly realised that and made amends with the serial killer role, it happens. I had to amend Cultured Drizzt fan's role halfway through my game because it was simply too powerful at that stage in the game. This can't be the sole game you've seen a rebalancing in.Quote:
Yes there is, look at Victory conditions. We only had to kill the town to win, Pizza only had to kill 3 people. They were both compatible.
Pizza having to kill three people is just a stupid victory condition, by the way... he'd technically win the game after three rounds, it's pointless. It's also not how he made things out to be, I might add.
Aside of the fact that this isn't CSI, would you have preferred to simply attain an easy victory? Because killing the two most active town on the first night would have essentially won the game for you there and then and it was futile to continue.Quote:
I don't remember talking bodies in CSI.
The dead are still allowed to speak in-game, they are not allowed to reveal anything to the town that isn't already public information; if you look back, I utilised what leeway I had in order to make all unknown information public, and then I based my accusations around that. All the accusations levied against you and Methos were generated by things that were public knowledge, be they sing-songs, videos from PMs or whatnot.
The sole thing I shouldn't have mentioned was stating that my own PM didn't contain Hallelujah, that was all. There was tonnes of evidence against you without using your private reveals, and I utilised that to point the finger at you both. I'd ignored Pizza because he had made certain concessions about how he was going to play the end-game, which is why I never pressed him for a reveal as Renata did.
You never revealed it either. So that doesn't work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Secura
Are you saying Chaotix, Subotan, Thermal Mecury, Psychonaut, Beefy187 and AVSM are so rubbish mafia players that they couldn't do anything with your magnificant wisdom to guide them? That is egotistical of you.Quote:
Aside of the fact that this isn't CSI, would you have preferred to simply attain an easy victory? Because killing the two most active town on the first night would have essentially won the game for you there and then and it was futile to continue.
That's just low, Beskar. I can't believe even you would do that. As to the egotistical thing, that's just hilarious coming from you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beskar
But it does work, don't you see?Quote:
Originally Posted by Beskar
I'm not going to look suspicious to myself if I don't reveal something to the town that I have only heard second-hand as it is. My own behaviour isn't going to strike me as suspicious, because I know why I'm doing it. :P
On the other hand, you heard it straight from the horse's mouth, caught him out with his fabrication and then only sought to inform myself and Renata rather than bring it forward to the town in public. That was suspicious to me, because there seemed to be only one reason you'd do that, and Pizza confirmed it himself; you had him over a barrel.
You know that you're putting words in my mouth, now.Quote:
Are you saying Chaotix, Subotan, Thermal Mecury, Psychonaut, Beefy187 and AVSM are so rubbish mafia players that they couldn't do anything with your magnificant wisdom to guide them? That is egotistical of you.
However, I will point out that the host did inform me that none of the town except myself utilised night abilities and that only myself and Renata put sufficient effort into the game for the town. That's coming from JHT himself, so make of it what you will.
There was some bad play on all sides. I was pretty terrible in finding a good cover role for myself after Beskar asked me who I was. Beskar kind of revealed himself before the game was over. The town was really inactive/disorganized.
Hey, this stuff happens, water under the bridge. My advice: let it go.
The tension between you guys is awful, I thoroughly enjoyed this game and think JHT did a brilliant job, well thought out :bow:
I don't see the point where you were biased either, what is Beskar suggesting?
Thanks for hosting anyway.
Yes, this was a really cool game John. Thanks for hosting
Shame I wasn't Zappa though ._.
Your claim to be someone alive still baffles me, Subo... o_o'
I don't really know why either :shrug: