The Rock & Roll Hall of Fame [Concluded]

[Renata]

If it's not clear I'm not blaming you in any way -- I never asked. Just got too distracted by other things/too lazy/too not wanting to have a fight maybe, even. Going up against Methos/Beskar/ATPG while dead would have been rather difficult.

[Secura]

The thing that annoys me the most is that none of the town really utilised their night abilities; I sent a PM to investigate, but it was completely useless because it relied on Double A doing the same and I couldn't inform him to do so because his inbox was full. Then I died shortly thereafter. Factor in the fact it was an utter mission contacting Nusrat as is and it was an entirely wasted venture.

There wasn't enough active town participation either, whereas one of the mafia and the Serial Killer were two of the most active players here; it's a surprise it hasn't ended already.

[johnhughthom]

The general rule is "the dead can reveal nothing and cannot talk outside of the thread", this stops any incidents where the dead were all pooling information together and other things.

Yeah, but you shouldn't really assume all the players are aware of that. That was my mistake.

[Secura]

Just need Thermal to vote for Methos and then we can end the game and discuss roles and such a little further. :3

[Methos]

Or TM can vote the mafia, AVSM and town wins.

[Secura]

Your guilt's in-thread already, but if you wish to play ball, Thermal needs only consider this:

AVSM was called up to perform a song in front of everyone and was shown to be Kurt Cobain performing an obscure song which correlates with other role PMs including your own; compare that to Methos who you know nothing about beyond his posted YouTube video of Tammy Wynette's most famous song.

Tammy Wynette is female and blonde, same as the remaining mafia too. The choice is clear, Thermal; you can win this game for town by voting Methos. :3

[Thermal]

vote methos

[johnhughthom]

The Rock & Roll Hall of Fame end of day five

As Hannah walked up to the lynch she realised the Disney mafia had blown it, they had failed to eliminate all the Hall of Famers and good music would live forever.

Town take second place with a minor victory

Disney mafia are defeated

Tally:

Methos: 2 (AVSM, TM)
TM: 1 (Methos)

End of game, thank you to all for playing. Any tips on how I could improve game balance or my hosting in general would be much appreciated. I really saw this game as an excuse to post loads of music videos, kinda like the "What are you watching right now" thread in game form, and to get a bit of hosting experience in the process.

[Secura]

I enjoyed the game to be honest, but I feel that the town let itself down and only won due to a combination of mafia overconfidence, the rick-roller's victory conditions and two dead townies.

I wouldn't mind seeing full Role PMs to see exactly who had what ability and why said abilities weren't used. Some of them could have changed the entire course of the game if used.

[Renata]

I have GOT to stop using Methos as a default confidante just because he's there. :) At least with anyone else I'll have to come up with actual reasons. (Which may be right or wrong, but at least they'll be reasons!)

Beskar actually told me about ATPG during the day before I was killed. I waited for him to say something about it in public, and he didn't. So I figured one or the other one of them must be playing somebody, which implied most likely one or the other of them was mafia. An outside chance was that Beskar might be an investigator with a result on AtPG he wanted someone else to reveal -- that's what kept *me* silent. During the night, though, I figured I had to tell someone, as Beskar still hadn't said anything and I thought it was possible I might be killed due to not taking the cue he had given me.

I chose Methos. Told him everything except my "investigator" suspicions, and wound up dead for it.

So basically that first morning after dying I had my list of Beskar, ATPG, Methos, but I didn't know what to do with it. Just saying "vote these three" without being able to provide any reasons for it seems so cheesy, you know?

[johnhughthom]

John Lennon:


Most peoples favourite Beatle, formed a legendary song writing partnership with Paul McCartney which produced more
classic songs than many entire countries. Killed in 1980 by stalker Mark Chapman.
Normal townie you can help eliminate the Disney scum by voting and taking part in discussions.

VC: Eliminate the mafia, survive.

George Harrison:


The most underrated of the Beatles, he spent most of the time under the Lennon/McCartney shadow despite writing a
number of great songs himself. Died of lung cancer in 2001.
Try to find yourself a friend and neither will need to fear the Disney evil. Find a former bandmate and if you both
pm me with each other's role so long as you both live you will be night kill immune. You only get one shot.

VC: Eliminate the mafia, survive.

Jeff Buckley:


Only released one album but that album consistently appears in top album polls. In 1997 He was working on his
second album in Memphis when he went for a swim in the Wolf River. He didn't come back and his body was found a
week later.
Your idol ("your Elvis") is part of the game, find him and pm me with his identity and working together you will be able to
investigate one person per night phase to discover their true identity.

VC: Eliminate the mafia, survive.

Roy Orbison:


Hugely popular in the 60s his career went downhill until the late 80s when he joined the Traveling Wilburys. Sadly
he didn't get the opportunity to enjoy this resurgence and he died of a heart attack in 1988.
Normal townie you can help eliminate the Disney scum by voting and taking part in discussions.

VC: Eliminate the mafia, survive.

Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan:


A singer of Qawwali, he is credited with taking Pakistani music into the world sphere. Died in 1997 after cardiac
arrest following liver and kidney failure, ironically only a few months after Jeff Buckley, whose championing of
Khan brought his music to the ears of many who would otherwise never have taken the time to try it.
Normal townie you can help eliminate the Disney scum by voting and taking part in discussions.

VC: Eliminate the mafia, survive.

Johnny Cash:


A man whose influence spreads far beyond his country roots with artists as diverse as Blur, Nine Inch Nails,
Depeche Mode, U2 and Wyclef Jean naming him as an inspiration. After a number of years of illness he died in 2003,
shortly after the death of his wife.
As the Man in Black you can move about almost invisible at night, watching one player unseen. Once per night you
can investigate a player to find out their activities that phase.

VC: Eliminate the mafia, survive.

Freddy Mercury:


Flamboyant showman Freddie Mercury was the charismatic frontman of legendary band Queen. Died in 1991 of an AIDS
related illness.
Normal townie you can help eliminate the Disney scum by voting and taking part in discussions.

VC: Eliminate the mafia, survive

Bon Scott:


Frontman of AC/DC from 1974, Scott had a powerful stage presence. He died in 1980 after a night out in London due
to choking on his own vomit.
When you died Disney just made cartoons, you have no fear of these evil monstrosities. Each night you can choose
one player to protect and any kill attempt by popstars will see them flee from the scary Aussie/Scot ghost.

VC: Eliminate the mafia, survive.

Jim Morrison:


The Doors frontman was no stranger to controversy, singing about getting high on live tv and allegedly exposing
himself live on stage and attempting to start a riot. He died in Paris in 1971, though claimed sightings persist
to this day.
Normal townie you can help eliminate the Disney scum by voting and taking part in discussions.

VC: Eliminate the mafia, survive.

Kurt Cobain:


Heroin abuse, a mystery stomach illness, depression, dislike of the spotlight and rumoured bulimia contributed to
Cobain's suicide in 1994.

Normal townie you can help eliminate the Disney scum by voting and taking part in discussions.
VC: Eliminate the mafia, survive.

Selena Gomez:


You are alive and part of the Disney mafia but had to come in disguise as Karen Carpenter:

so you don't know your friend and they don't know you. Codeword to find each other is Demi Lovato. Two mafia members can work together to attempt to kill one townie, if only one of you remains you can kill alone.

VC: Eliminate all the "Rock and Roll Hall of Fame" so crusty old folk have to listen to your "infectious" brand of
pop.

Hannah Montana:


You are alive and part of the Disney mafia but had to come in disguise as Tammy Wynette:

so you don't know your friend and they don't know you. Codeword to find each other is Demi Lovato. Two mafia members can work together to attempt to kill one townie, if only one of you remains you can kill alone.

VC: Eliminate all the "Rock and Roll Hall of Fame" so crusty old folk have to listen to your "infectious" brand of
pop.

Rick Astley:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EK2tWVj6lXw

You are alive.
You've been Rickrolled!! Each night phase you can send one ghost/Disney mafia to hell. Basically a kill ability.

VC: Kill two townies and one mafia to win!!!

...

[Secura]

Yes, I think the same applies to me for Beskar, really.

I'm surprised that Double A was the only person who approached me during the course of me being alive though; did people think I was posting the lyrics to Hallelujah for the good of my health? It was only when I mentioned Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan outright that I was approached in the first place! xD

Also, I was informed that the three of them (Pizza, Beskar and Methos) were basically working together from the start. Town was lucky to get a minor victory, really.

[Methos]

I'm curious how things would have been different if Beskar hadn't posted like he did in the thread. Originally Pizza was supposed to kill me to fulfill his VC and I agreed to it. Beskar then changed his mind and told ATPG to kill Beskar instead. I'm guessing it was due to Beskar stating what he did in the thread. I had long since unsubscribed to the thread and wasn't paying attention to the game.

[Beskar]

I enjoyed the game to be honest, but I feel that the town let itself down and only won due to a combination of mafia overconfidence, the rick-roller's victory conditions and two dead townies.

I wouldn't mind seeing full Role PMs to see exactly who had what ability and why said abilities weren't used. Some of them could have changed the entire course of the game if used.

Nothing to do with Mafia overconfidence.

I'm curious how things would have been different if Beskar hadn't posted like he did in the thread. Originally Pizza was supposed to kill me to fulfill his VC and I agreed to it. Beskar then changed his mind and told ATPG to kill Beskar instead. I'm guessing it was due to Beskar stating what he did in the thread. I had long since unsubscribed to the thread and wasn't paying attention to the game.

Couple of reasons, the main reason is, I didn't think it was fair of me to ship you down salty creek, so if one of us had to die, I chose myself.


Main problem with the game was infact a couple of "standard rules" keep getting missed out in newer games, which brings a return to old problems and loop-holes. Pretty hard to compete against a Town-Information Network of dead players, which is the main reason there was the standard rule of "The Dead do not share anything out of thread" "the Dead do not reveal after death" and other such things.

There was some intentional deceit on the host side as well, in regards to Pizza. If this information was even made available earlier to him, the outlook of the game would have been different, with either me or Methos dying earlier or a total victory in all three of us won.

[Secura]

Nothing to do with Mafia overconfidence.

Why did you post in-thread then in a manner which essentially revealed you as mafia? Myself, Pizza, Methos and the host all interpreted that as overconfidence, but only you can truly say why you did it.

[Methos]

Couple of reasons, the main window is, I didn't think it was fair of me to ship you down salty creek, so if one of us had to die, I chose myself.

ATPG had already informed me about his VC and he wanted to see if I was okay with him murdering me. I agreed to it.

[johnhughthom]

There was some intentional deceit on the host side as well, in regards to Pizza.

[Secura]

Network of dead players, which is the main reason there was the standard rule of "The Dead do not share anything out of thread" "the Dead do not reveal after death" and other such things.

There never was a network of dead players; JHT instructed me that I wasn't allowed to reveal things to Renata, and vice versa, thus she didn't tell me about her suspicions because she wasn't permitted to do so. You'll also notice that despite the fact that Methos, Pizza and yourself all came clean to me in-thread, I didn't mention that whatsoever; instead, I utilised everything in my power as a dead player to get people to reveal who they were so we could sort out who was who.

If we hadn't been permitted to speak whatsoever, then the game would have been lost after myself and Renata died in Night Two, and it would have been pointless continuing it. Would you have preferred that?

There was some intentional deceit on the host side as well, in regards to Pizza. If this information was even made available earlier to him, the outlook of the game would have been different, with either me or Methos dying earlier or a total victory in all three of us won.

There could never have been total victory for the three of you; either you and Methos won outright or Pizza did.

Pizza kept you both alive for his own reasons; the extent to which he hoodwinked you in Shadow Fort and the whole Pizza-Methos teté-a-teté from games such as Swords and D20s 3.

[Renata]

Main problem with the game was infact a couple of "standard rules" keep getting missed out in newer games, which brings a return to old problems and loop-holes. Pretty hard to compete against a Town-Information Network of dead players, which is the main reason there was the standard rule of "The Dead do not share anything out of thread" "the Dead do not reveal after death" and other such things.

This was emphatically not a factor. Secura tried to talk to me out of thread after we were both killed, but I wanted permission from JHT first (which never came; she forgot, and he wouldn't have said yes anyway), so nothing ever came of it. She had her own reasons to be suspicious of you personally; and I had near-ironclad reasons to be suspicious of all three of you. I never told Secura about that, though. I held back that first post-death day out of uncertainly over what I could say, for which I apologize to the town, though I'm not sure I could have made it stick without being able to give reasons. And as above, it's against my nature not to give reasons; it feels cheesy.

For the last day, Secura had come up with the right line of attack against Methos (on her own), and that sealed it.

[Beskar]

There never was a network of dead players; JHT instructed me that I wasn't allowed to reveal things to Renata, and vice versa,

Yet, you did. You pm'd all your suspects and what people claimed to you in private with eachother, said what Renata claimed to you, etc. This is what you said yourself to me, when you thought I was town.

There could never have been total victory for the three of you; either you and Methos won outright or Pizza did.

Yes there is, look at Victory conditions. We only had to kill the town to win, Pizza only had to kill 3 people. They were both compatible.

If we hadn't been permitted to speak whatsoever, then the game would have been lost after myself and Renata died in Night Two, and it would have been pointless continuing it. Would you have preferred that?

I don't remember talking bodies in CSI.

[Renata]

Oh right, there were the claims that did go back and forth. That was inappropriate, yes.

[Secura]

Yet, you did. You pm'd all your suspects and what people claimed to you in private with eachother, what said what Renata claimed to you. This is what you said yourself to me, when you thought I was town.

Well, Renata got a half-list rather than my full one, a half-list that had already been PM'd to other players prior to my death, I might add; this was before I had confirmation from the host that I wasn't to reveal anything, and Renata can attest that I did not give her the full list.

Again though, you make the assumption that I had you down as a townie, when in fact the only one of the scum trio who slipped me by for most of the game was Methos, in his traditional lurker fashion. Funnily enough, one of the main reasons that I found you suspicious was the fact that you didn't reveal Pizza to the town when he slipped up with his role claim, which Renata also found suspect.

Yes there is, look at Victory conditions. We only had to kill the town to win, Pizza only had to kill 3 people. They were both compatible.

Then the game was not balanced; three mafia against eight/nine town... you'd win within a few phases, utterly pointless. The host clearly realised that and made amends with the serial killer role, it happens. I had to amend Cultured Drizzt fan's role halfway through my game because it was simply too powerful at that stage in the game. This can't be the sole game you've seen a rebalancing in.

Pizza having to kill three people is just a stupid victory condition, by the way... he'd technically win the game after three rounds, it's pointless. It's also not how he made things out to be, I might add.

I don't remember talking bodies in CSI.

Aside of the fact that this isn't CSI, would you have preferred to simply attain an easy victory? Because killing the two most active town on the first night would have essentially won the game for you there and then and it was futile to continue.

The dead are still allowed to speak in-game, they are not allowed to reveal anything to the town that isn't already public information; if you look back, I utilised what leeway I had in order to make all unknown information public, and then I based my accusations around that. All the accusations levied against you and Methos were generated by things that were public knowledge, be they sing-songs, videos from PMs or whatnot.

The sole thing I shouldn't have mentioned was stating that my own PM didn't contain Hallelujah, that was all. There was tonnes of evidence against you without using your private reveals, and I utilised that to point the finger at you both. I'd ignored Pizza because he had made certain concessions about how he was going to play the end-game, which is why I never pressed him for a reveal as Renata did.

[Beskar]

Again though, you make the assumption that I had you down as a townie, when in fact the only one of the scum trio who slipped me by for most of the game was Methos, in his traditional lurker fashion. Funnily enough, one of the main reasons that I found you suspicious was the fact that you didn't reveal Pizza to the town when he slipped up with his role claim, which Renata also found suspect.

You never revealed it either. So that doesn't work.

Aside of the fact that this isn't CSI, would you have preferred to simply attain an easy victory? Because killing the two most active town on the first night would have essentially won the game for you there and then and it was futile to continue.

Are you saying Chaotix, Subotan, Thermal Mecury, Psychonaut, Beefy187 and AVSM are so rubbish mafia players that they couldn't do anything with your magnificant wisdom to guide them? That is egotistical of you.

[Methos]

Are you saying Chaotix, Subotan, Thermal Mecury, Psychonaut, Beefy187 and AVSM are so rubbish mafia players that they couldn't do anything with your magnificant wisdom to guide them? That is egotistical of you.

That's just low, Beskar. I can't believe even you would do that. As to the egotistical thing, that's just hilarious coming from you.

[Secura]

You never revealed it either. So that doesn't work.

But it does work, don't you see?

I'm not going to look suspicious to myself if I don't reveal something to the town that I have only heard second-hand as it is. My own behaviour isn't going to strike me as suspicious, because I know why I'm doing it. :P

On the other hand, you heard it straight from the horse's mouth, caught him out with his fabrication and then only sought to inform myself and Renata rather than bring it forward to the town in public. That was suspicious to me, because there seemed to be only one reason you'd do that, and Pizza confirmed it himself; you had him over a barrel.

Are you saying Chaotix, Subotan, Thermal Mecury, Psychonaut, Beefy187 and AVSM are so rubbish mafia players that they couldn't do anything with your magnificant wisdom to guide them? That is egotistical of you.

You know that you're putting words in my mouth, now.

However, I will point out that the host did inform me that none of the town except myself utilised night abilities and that only myself and Renata put sufficient effort into the game for the town. That's coming from JHT himself, so make of it what you will.

[Askthepizzaguy]

There was some bad play on all sides. I was pretty terrible in finding a good cover role for myself after Beskar asked me who I was. Beskar kind of revealed himself before the game was over. The town was really inactive/disorganized.

Hey, this stuff happens, water under the bridge. My advice: let it go.

[Thermal]

The tension between you guys is awful, I thoroughly enjoyed this game and think JHT did a brilliant job, well thought out

I don't see the point where you were biased either, what is Beskar suggesting?

Thanks for hosting anyway.

[Subotan]

Yes, this was a really cool game John. Thanks for hosting

Shame I wasn't Zappa though ._.

[Secura]

Your claim to be someone alive still baffles me, Subo... o_o'

[Subotan]

I don't really know why either