Sufjan 10er [Game Thread]

Official Tally as of #720

1 Ephemeral (Sunbae)
1 Visor (Ephemeral)

Not Voting: insomnia, Visor

Day 3 ends in

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Originally Posted by insomnia

@Visorslash can you elaborate what this was about? I think u mentioned this toDay but i wanna ask again to make sure in case you didn?t elaborate

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Originally Posted by insomnia

Why interested in lantana here?

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Because I didn't share rasks read at the time

I was v reading them for their katze shit so I asked Rask to see what I was missing

Re the other post: so in sunbaes champs game he got pushed by a player for silly reasons and ended up v reading them for it, and we chatted about it after the game

So when I saw Lantana doing the same thing to me, the thought occured to me that sunbae was using that strategy with Lantana to get them townread plus they were both townreading each other

Which is like hilariously paranoid when I type it out lol

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Originally Posted by insomnia

@Visorslash can you elaborate what this was about? I think u mentioned this toDay but i wanna ask again to make sure in case you didn?t elaborate

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Originally Posted by Sunbae

Me: Lantana is a dead wolf. I think I want to clear Rask, visor, and mischief because if one of them were wolves then all the wagons were v/v/v and why would wolves be so active trying to move wagons around at end of day?

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I think the issue stems from ender also being a big wagon but idr

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Originally Posted by insomnia

@Visorslash can you elaborate what this was about? I think u mentioned this toDay but i wanna ask again to make sure in case you didn?t elaborate

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Pretty disappointed there's just one eph post after I went to bed

His solving today has been hard to parse, the vote on sunbae was just a gut feel, sure, the switch to me has no reasons and he's still voting me which is weird because he seems to express some doubt I'm a wolf and some issues with sunbae but I couldn't tell you right now if he actually thinks I am more likely to flip wolf.

Maybe he thought if he always wins vs sunbae that killing me today is his best bet

Compared to killing sunbae and insomnia having to decide to me vs sunbae

Go away multiquote lmao

I'm about 75:25 likely to vote eph over sunbae here I think

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Originally Posted by Visor

I think the issue stems from ender also being a big wagon but idr

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Nah, the issue was just "see post that says wagons were villagers" -> not read context around that which shows I'm talking about if one of the eod active people are wolves -> point out that he was a wagon ergo he is a villager

I think it was a shitpost now that I think about it lol

I was kinda hoping to wake up to an insomnia wall lol

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Originally Posted by Visor

Because I didn't share rasks read at the time

I was v reading them for their katze shit so I asked Rask to see what I was missing

Re the other post: so in sunbaes champs game he got pushed by a player for silly reasons and ended up v reading them for it, and we chatted about it after the game

So when I saw Lantana doing the same thing to me, the thought occured to me that sunbae was using that strategy with Lantana to get them townread plus they were both townreading each other

Which is like hilariously paranoid when I type it out lol

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I always have the issue of giving v reads to people that push me and I need to fix it. 90% sure neo did it on purpose knowing that.

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Originally Posted by Visor

I was kinda hoping to wake up to an insomnia wall lol

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I am hoping to get a mountain of a post at :59 on the dot from Insomnia about whether its me or you and why, with quotes and theories and meta pulled from other thread, then Ephem gets chopepd wolf 1 minute later and we all laugh for 27 minutes

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Originally Posted by Sunbae

I always have the issue of giving v reads to people that push me and I need to fix it. 90% sure neo did it on purpose knowing that.

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I tend to do it too, it's a bad habit lol

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Originally Posted by Sunbae

I am hoping to get a mountain of a post at :59 on the dot from Insomnia about whether its me or you and why, with quotes and theories and meta pulled from other thread, then Ephem gets chopepd wolf 1 minute later and we all laugh for 27 minutes

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Lmao I'd laugh but also my poor anxiety lmao

Part of me wonders if I'm just used to people suspecting me for spurious reasons so I just tend to go sure fine villa

I tend to attract people who if they think I'm a wolf, really think Im a wolf and everything I say makes them more confident

In hindsight it was a bad read but I just dismissed it as yet another bad read. I guess I should've pushed there because it was attempting to be inarguable and relying on the meta from someone who hasn't seen my wolf game and being so confident in that read despite presumably never playing with me before was a disconnect but idk.

When Rask wolfread them, it knocked the read down a tier, but I wasn't ready to kill them D1 based on that read, should've listened lol

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Originally Posted by Visor

I was kinda hoping to wake up to an insomnia wall lol

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i fucking hate life :curtain:

all time low performance from me, but i literally could not find the time

fmpov easiest thing to do is to yeet sunbae for insurance he's not a wolf and i shoot eph in the night. if the wolf is in you 2 then it's safe to assume you fooled each other hard? and i read d1 and don't particularly wolfread anything in solitude. flipping sunbae -> i clear visor and shoot eph

does this sound bad? i really am scared eph is not the wolf and if i have to pick between u 2 oh my lawd

even THO in THEORY tomorrow I should should should have time to finally read

man i hate uni

i was hyped to wallpost my musings but NOPE

maybe i should vote eph and challenge the last wolf if it's not him

for the final standoff

I think my biggest issue was not being confident enough in my villa reads to back them and getting too hung up on mischief

That and posting at EOD as usual lol

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Originally Posted by Visor

Lmao I'd laugh but also my poor anxiety lmao

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Eh, no real anxiety for this game imo. I think regardless of the answer it's been a fun back and forth game that was entirely pleasant. I don't think anybody did anything overly silly. Even the Insom vote was more of a "I don't want to kill either of these two wagons cause I actively think one is a villager and don't think the other one is wolfy while I think Insom is wolfy" thing so it's not like, egregious or anything imo. A little derpy but whatever it happens. I also think everyones been having a good time trying to solve the game, no issues at all cropped up, and every single one of us has been pressed in this game and responded reasonably and will respect for the other people in the game.

This is, in essence, the type of game that makes me glad I play mafia.

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Originally Posted by Sunbae

Eh, no real anxiety for this game imo. I think regardless of the answer it's been a fun back and forth game that was entirely pleasant. I don't think anybody did anything overly silly. Even the Insom vote was more of a "I don't want to kill either of these two wagons cause I actively think one is a villager and don't think the other one is wolfy while I think Insom is wolfy" thing so it's not like, egregious or anything imo. A little derpy but whatever it happens. I also think everyones been having a good time trying to solve the game, no issues at all cropped up, and every single one of us has been pressed in this game and responded reasonably and will respect for the other people in the game.

This is, in essence, the type of game that makes me glad I play mafia.

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Oh I enjoyed the game, everyone was fun, but I didn't have the time to process the game to the extent I needed

Obv always anxiety over any endgame situation but it's 24/24 10er if we lose I'll be sad but I'm not gonna beat myself to death over it. We all have bad games now and then lol.

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Originally Posted by Visor

Part of me wonders if I'm just used to people suspecting me for spurious reasons so I just tend to go sure fine villa

I tend to attract people who if they think I'm a wolf, really think Im a wolf and everything I say makes them more confident

In hindsight it was a bad read but I just dismissed it as yet another bad read. I guess I should've pushed there because it was attempting to be inarguable and relying on the meta from someone who hasn't seen my wolf game and being so confident in that read despite presumably never playing with me before was a disconnect but idk.

When Rask wolfread them, it knocked the read down a tier, but I wasn't ready to kill them D1 based on that read, should've listened lol

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I think for me I just chalked it up to more posting like Alana/Font in my champs game. I've got to do a better job of equating new people being eager/upbeat as being towny. I'm so used to places where people massively prefer villaging but some places enjoy wolfing more and I never factor that into my ideas.

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Originally Posted by insomnia

i fucking hate life :curtain:

all time low performance from me, but i literally could not find the time

fmpov easiest thing to do is to yeet sunbae for insurance he's not a wolf and i shoot eph in the night. if the wolf is in you 2 then it's safe to assume you fooled each other hard? and i read d1 and don't particularly wolfread anything in solitude. flipping sunbae -> i clear visor and shoot eph

does this sound bad? i really am scared eph is not the wolf and if i have to pick between u 2 oh my lawd

even THO in THEORY tomorrow I should should should have time to finally read

man i hate uni

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I mean I'm obviously biased but yes it will win the game for us if you do that.

But if that's who you want to kill it shouldn't matter what order you do it in

so visor and sunbae can i have your last words on each other plz

er, new people to me. not to mafia games in general

I do get your perspective about decisions though

If you think I am much more likely to be a villager than eph then killing sunbae first makes your choice a lot easier

Compared to killing eph and then having to decide between us which is presumably much closer

That's what you are thinking right

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Originally Posted by insomnia

so visor and sunbae can i have your last words on each other plz

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More likely villager than eph

If it do ya fine, say thankee

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Originally Posted by insomnia

so visor and sunbae can i have your last words on each other plz

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He has better interactions with the dead wolf, dead villagers that wolves killed liked him, i had extended interactions with him attempting to solve alignments that never set off warning bells, and i also think he's a pretty swell bloke in general.

So I am going to vote Ephem.

If it is not Ephem, then whatever, he got me. In that world idk what to tell you: you're gonna have to read our posts and decide which one of us is the more likely wolf. How you're gonna get that one right is up to you.

note: ephem is also a swell bloke

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Originally Posted by Visor

I do get your perspective about decisions though

If you think I am much more likely to be a villager than eph then killing sunbae first makes your choice a lot easier

Compared to killing eph and then having to decide between us which is presumably much closer

That's what you are thinking right

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ye. sunbae is saying u are a villa + i think u've been villa enough at times tho you have felt weird to me too, but if sunbae is confident i'll sheep him and that's why having his flip first makes it way easier. if we kill eph and he's not the wolf then i haveto go between u 2 which is tough

if i would have had extensive time to do research to be confident, i'd just go for who i think is a wolf then standoff at night

If sunbaes a wolf he's done a great job of representing being fooled by me and I tip my hat to it

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Originally Posted by Sunbae

He has better interactions with the dead wolf, dead villagers that wolves killed liked him, i had extended interactions with him attempting to solve alignments that never set off warning bells, and i also think he's a pretty swell bloke in general.

So I am going to vote Ephem.

If it is not Ephem, then whatever, he got me. In that world idk what to tell you: you're gonna have to read our posts and decide which one of us is the more likely wolf. How you're gonna get that one right is up to you.

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If you would like a town case for that bolded world for myself that is not self meta, I can do one.

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Originally Posted by insomnia

ye. sunbae is saying u are a villa + i think u've been villa enough at times tho you have felt weird to me too, but if sunbae is confident i'll sheep him and that's why having his flip first makes it way easier. if we kill eph and he's not the wolf then i haveto go between u 2 which is tough

if i would have had extensive time to do research to be confident, i'd just go for who i think is a wolf then standoff at night

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If that's what you want to do, it doesn't feel right to me because it's not who I think is a wolf but I can't argue with the perspective because I agree with it from the vigs standpoint and I think the vig should decide who dies because they have the decision power in f3

So if that's really what you want I guess

I'm a firm believer of the vig choosing the kill in f4 to set themselves up for f3

So, go with God insomnia

I'm not entirely sure what I'm supposed to do in this situation. Maybe I need to be more aggressively defensive with an "anyone but me" mentality because I know that's the correct answer. It's what Visor has been doing today - repeating that I'm probably a villager but casing me anyways just in case - and it appears like it's going to be successful for him. I thiiiink that's still successful for me so I'm kinda just shrugging at it but I think I'll look back at this if it's a loss and try and work out how to approach this game day differently.

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Originally Posted by Sunbae

I'm not entirely sure what I'm supposed to do in this situation. Maybe I need to be more aggressively defensive with an "anyone but me" mentality because I know that's the correct answer. It's what Visor has been doing today - repeating that I'm probably a villager but casing me anyways just in case - and it appears like it's going to be successful for him. I thiiiink that's still successful for me so I'm kinda just shrugging at it but I think I'll look back at this if it's a loss and try and work out how to approach this game day differently.

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i dont think your approach was bad, it really just comes down to how insomnia individually reads all of us

i guess from your pov its: what could i have done to be the person insomnia village reads the most

and thats a toss up lol, especially because its so reliant on d1 stuff that you cant predict is relevant

i guess the strength of your villa read on me mightve had an impact?

Carrying on with that thought, if I'm trying to say "well visor can be a wolf here because xyz but I don't think so" I think the only real "issue" in the game is the approach today being so much different than mine? Whereas I'm over here just working through things finding who I think is the wolf, he's had more of a "kill both of them" focus that really hasn't been shared by me. Which I get it, like I just said in my last post maybe that's how I should be acting too but like, I think the wolf *needs* to get both killed and I'm pretty content with just killing ephem and hoping my reads are right and I think once I make that Ephem case it should be pretty easy for him to do the same? In that world I'd probably have to say sorry to mischief who tried to warn me about it, but I really just viewed the two of them as intercommunicating villagers and didn't weigh that warning heavily.

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Originally Posted by Visor

i guess from your pov its: what could i have done to be the person insomnia village reads the most

and thats a toss up lol, especially because its so reliant on d1 stuff that you cant predict is relevant

i guess the strength of your villa read on me mightve had an impact?

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Yeah, which is really funny in the Ephem wolf world because I might get chopped for being right lmao. If it is the you wolf world though then I don't think I would have gotten there in a final 3 anyways so a loss is a loss.

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Originally Posted by Sunbae

Carrying on with that thought, if I'm trying to say "well visor can be a wolf here because xyz but I don't think so" I think the only real "issue" in the game is the approach today being so much different than mine? Whereas I'm over here just working through things finding who I think is the wolf, he's had more of a "kill both of them" focus that really hasn't been shared by me. Which I get it, like I just said in my last post maybe that's how I should be acting too but like, I think the wolf *needs* to get both killed and I'm pretty content with just killing ephem and hoping my reads are right and I think once I make that Ephem case it should be pretty easy for him to do the same? In that world I'd probably have to say sorry to mischief who tried to warn me about it, but I really just viewed the two of them as intercommunicating villagers and didn't weigh that warning heavily.

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ya i think thats reasonable

the problem is how the f4 scenario frames how people play it, and my history of f4s in vig turbos lol

I guess the other answer is "dont tunnel the vig for two days" but uh, idk I really thought that was the solve and was really happy with it.

i will say i have leaned towards eph fairly heavily, though i did do some due diligence on you, (admittedly even now i find it hard to commit on whether it was a random push or a bus lol, i hate commitment)

but the perspective of 'well i got there, so you shouldve also got there' is a mixed methodology, in that not everyone has the same perspective/approach, even if it makes a lot of sense to you (which is something i struggle with eternally and where a lot of my 'this person is tripping all these wolf signals but i think im wrong for the right reasons thing' read comes from

insomnia, you still around?

@Ephemeral

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Originally Posted by Visor

i will say i have leaned towards eph fairly heavily, though i did do some due diligence on you, (admittedly even now i find it hard to commit on whether it was a random push or a bus lol, i hate commitment)

but the perspective of 'well i got there, so you shouldve also got there' is a mixed methodology, in that not everyone has the same perspective/approach, even if it makes a lot of sense to you (which is something i struggle with eternally and where a lot of my 'this person is tripping all these wolf signals but i think im wrong for the right reasons thing' read comes from

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Oh, don't get it twisted I'm not saying "I now think Visor is the wolf". I'm pretty set in stone on my read at this point and feel good about it. I'm covering bases by saying "if we do chop Ephem and Ephem flips villager and I'm a sitting duck, here's all I can tell you Insomnia to try and help you get it right". Which is some form of look at which one of us was trying to kill person and which one of us was trying to kill two because the villager between us was hunting for one wolf and the wolf needed to kill two villagers.

I don't think it'll come up (either because Ephem flips wolf or you chop me). But if it does, theres what I got.

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Originally Posted by Sunbae

Oh, don't get it twisted I'm not saying "I now think Visor is the wolf". I'm pretty set in stone on my read at this point and feel good about it. I'm covering bases by saying "if we do chop Ephem and Ephem flips villager and I'm a sitting duck, here's all I can tell you Insomnia to try and help you get it right". Which is some form of look at which one of us was trying to kill person and which one of us was trying to kill two because the villager between us was hunting for one wolf and the wolf needed to kill two villagers.

I don't think it'll come up (either because Ephem flips wolf or you chop me). But if it does, theres what I got.

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ya thats fair, and its the argument you have to go with ya

The most sensible, accepted, gentlemanly f4 in existence. Good job everyone

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Originally Posted by Zack

Official Tally as of #720

1 Ephemeral (Sunbae)
1 Visor (Ephemeral)

Not Voting: insomnia, Visor

Day 3 ends in

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believe this is still the count

welcome to the nl and sunbae talkshow

https://i.imgur.com/VsX07cZ.gif

whered insomnia go lol

where ephemeral

i'm fighting a spider

spoiler: it's winning

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Originally Posted by Sunbae

The most sensible, accepted, gentlemanly f4 in existence. Good job everyone

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:hattip:

that it, eph?

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Originally Posted by insomnia

i fucking hate life :curtain:

all time low performance from me, but i literally could not find the time

fmpov easiest thing to do is to yeet sunbae for insurance he's not a wolf and i shoot eph in the night. if the wolf is in you 2 then it's safe to assume you fooled each other hard? and i read d1 and don't particularly wolfread anything in solitude. flipping sunbae -> i clear visor and shoot eph

does this sound bad? i really am scared eph is not the wolf and if i have to pick between u 2 oh my lawd

even THO in THEORY tomorrow I should should should have time to finally read

man i hate uni

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see this now makes me scared of the world where sunbae is a villager, we kill him and then you sleepwalk into shooting me and nl just laughs

unless i'm reading the entire thing wrong it almost sounds like the optimal play is to kill me today and have you actually burn braincells figuring out which of them it is lol

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Originally Posted by Ephemeral

see this now makes me scared of the world where sunbae is a villager, we kill him and then you sleepwalk into shooting me and nl just laughs

unless i'm reading the entire thing wrong it almost sounds like the optimal play is to kill me today and have you actually burn braincells figuring out which of them it is lol

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who do you think is the most likely wolf out of me and sunbae?

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Originally Posted by Visor

who do you think is the most likely wolf out of me and sunbae?

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gth? you

but it's absurdly close and there comes a point where I have to accept there's no way I'm cleanly catching either of you with the amount of time/effort I could afford to spend on the game

so my play just has to be putting insom in a spot where he doesn't have to worry about me and can worry about figuring the wolf out, unless i'm missing something

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Originally Posted by Zack

Official Tally as of #720

1 Ephemeral (Sunbae)
1 Visor (Ephemeral)

Not Voting: insomnia, Visor

Day 3 ends in

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believe this is still the count 2: electric boogaloo

okay we're 1 hour out.

if insomnia doesn't show back up, im voting eph.

if he shows up and wants to kill sunbae so he can feel good about shooting eph vs me, i will do it, i think eph is the wolf but if it locks in the win to 100% i'll be okay with it

if he shows up and wants to kill eph, i'll be okay with that too, i think that does increase the chance he shoots me a little but c'est la vie

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Originally Posted by Ephemeral

gth? you

but it's absurdly close and there comes a point where I have to accept there's no way I'm cleanly catching either of you with the amount of time/effort I could afford to spend on the game

so my play just has to be putting insom in a spot where he doesn't have to worry about me and can worry about figuring the wolf out, unless i'm missing something

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how did you get to me, from your sunbae vote earlier in the phase

@insomnia aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

so basically unless insom feels confident enough about sunbae right now that I can just throw my hands up and sheep him on it, i'd rather let it come down to a silent fight between y'all at night while I sip margaritas on a distant beach

:2thumbsup:

vote: ephemeral

up to you insom. i might towncase myself in a bit if i feel the need.

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Originally Posted by Visor

how did you get to me, from your sunbae vote earlier in the phase

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i think i've gone through that already no?

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Originally Posted by Visor

okay we're 1 hour out.

if insomnia doesn't show back up, im voting eph.

if he shows up and wants to kill sunbae so he can feel good about shooting eph vs me, i will do it, i think eph is the wolf but if it locks in the win to 100% i'll be okay with it

if he shows up and wants to kill eph, i'll be okay with that too, i think that does increase the chance he shoots me a little but c'est la vie

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yeah and of course if Insom comes back and votes me, ephem stays on you, and you vote me, I will also be obligated to vote you. just is what it is at this point

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Originally Posted by Ephemeral

i think i've gone through that already no?

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i couldnt follow any connections you made

so if you could resummarise (not that it really matters at this point)

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Originally Posted by Ephemeral

gth? you

but it's absurdly close and there comes a point where I have to accept there's no way I'm cleanly catching either of you with the amount of time/effort I could afford to spend on the game

so my play just has to be putting insom in a spot where he doesn't have to worry about me and can worry about figuring the wolf out, unless i'm missing something

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sure just put it all on me :no:

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Originally Posted by Sunbae

yeah and of course if Insom comes back and votes me, ephem stays on you, and you vote me, I will also be obligated to vote you. just is what it is at this point

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ofc. some part of me desperately wants you to just take the sacrifice but its so hypocritical lol cause id never do it :P

forty minutes left of the werewolf game and potentially 24 hours and 40 minutes until we learn if we won or not \o/

i kinda feel like we're gonna vote wrong a lot of the time and it comes down tomy shot

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Originally Posted by Visor

ofc. some part of me desperately wants you to just take the sacrifice but its so hypocritical lol cause id never do it :P

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i actually thought of self voting in a recent turbo but didnt, then asked about it in turbo chat afterwards. we live in crazy times

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Originally Posted by insomnia

i kinda feel like we're gonna vote wrong a lot of the time and it comes down tomy shot

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as long as you don't shoot me, we win. yes i am aware how appealy and wolfy this sort of thing sounds but i cant stress it enough.

pretty sure just posting this lowers our win percentage by 1-2%

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Originally Posted by insomnia

sure just put it all on me :no:

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:creep: mfw running away from responsibility

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Originally Posted by insomnia

i kinda feel like we're gonna vote wrong a lot of the time and it comes down tomy shot

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heavy lies the crown

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Originally Posted by Sunbae

i actually thought of self voting in a recent turbo but didnt, then asked about it in turbo chat afterwards. we live in crazy times

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if you were willing to bet the game on me being a villager, self voting would work in the sense that it may offer a greater chance that insom would shoot eph

but i can't ask you to selfvote lol, i wouldn't do it, maybe if i had a game of good reads but ive clearly had a bad one and don't trust myself at all

vote: ephemeral

see you at night but hopefully not ya shmucks

alea iacta est eh

Official Tally as of #793

3 Ephemeral (Sunbae, Visor, insomnia)
1 Visor (Ephemeral)

Day 3 ends in

margaritas it is

53:47 between visor and sunbae (in terms of odds of being the wolf)

asspull numbers but they're probably the best way I can somewhat closely represent how I really feel about them atm

Given how close it is I'm aware it probably won't help you much tonight insom and that's on me but so it goes etc etc

if nl is a villager I'm sure he'll make sure to give me a good talking to for being way too hard on him this time around lol

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

would bring back memories from the last org game with manti

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Originally Posted by Ephemeral

if nl is a villager I'm sure he'll make sure to give me a good talking to for being way too hard on him this time around lol

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

would bring back memories from the last org game with manti

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:stare:

man that endgame also ticks me off

but i have myself to blame for being lazier in that one, i couldve been a greater team force in getting esooa as a wagon earlier

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Originally Posted by Visor

:stare:

man that endgame also ticks me off

but i have myself to blame for being lazier in that one, i couldve been a greater team force in getting esooa as a wagon earlier

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worst part about that was I already had some doubts on esooa, and manti cased them really well

of course I didn't clear him for it

and we never flipped esooa either (until after I died at least, forgot how things went afterwards aside from wolves winning lol)

good example of a game that was very close to being a crazy good village performance but it just fell short by a critical bit, we had most of the right pieces but never came together properly enough I guess

would've still probably gone down to f3 even if we did get esooa earlier I think though, hally was deeeeep

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Originally Posted by Ephemeral

worst part about that was I already had some doubts on esooa, and manti cased them really well

of course I didn't clear him for it

and we never flipped esooa either (until after I died at least, forgot how things went afterwards aside from wolves winning lol)

good example of a game that was very close to being a crazy good village performance but it just fell short by a critical bit, we had most of the right pieces but never came together properly enough I guess

would've still probably gone down to f3 even if we did get esooa earlier I think though, hally was deeeeep

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ya i had some stuff on hally in the f6, but nobody was biting and we never win with ara and manasi not showing up

we didnt kill esooa, we killed cuth or monty and shot the other i think

that was our big downfall day

that game i did have decent reads (except on gh lol) and was really confident about esooa being a wolf, just couldnt translate it to success