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I dunno, I guess the main reason I'm feeling despondent is that I felt I finally had learned something valuable from Pizza in terms of how to catch mafia, and in the end it turns out that everything was just lies and I, as always, substituted other people's opinions for my own. I don't think I can become an effective player until I can advocate for my own ideas effectively, and I can't manage that right now.
I enjoyed the game quite a bit. I know skating through the endgame is kind of a cheap way for a wolf to contribute to the team, but it's what the strategic situation and my RL schedule allowed. With no one seriously targeting me, and Pizza doing fine with the heavy lifting, any huge increase in participation on my end would have probably risked more than the potential benefits. But I had a lot of fun playing regardless and learned a lot. Thanks to all involved. I wish I could join the next game here but I probably won't be able to play these for a while unfortunately.
Found it! You really did want to frame CrimsonFox after all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
You refused to do analysis on some palyers inexplicably and announced your every absence. I felt as if I were the only saneQuote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
manrobot in the room.
Heh, for some reason Monty said he thought the game wouldn't end before late October (post #225).
Do I have to kill ALL the wolves for you?
Role was certainly not my style and not fun at all for me to play after n1 unfortunately.
Whatever, gg Pelican especially I guess.
Murska what in the world were you doing?
death by inactivity
https://thebrotherhoodofevilgeeks.fi...apers_fry1.jpg
I think it's self-explanatory.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfoR8SbFhy8
I would say in general, the advice is sound. It's just that, because I've been a townie for 8 years at this point, I know how to take good town advice and twist it to suit my own purposes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dp101
General's been around for years longer than I have, and nothing I said in the game didn't pass his sniff test as to its town-merits.
So, if it fools a veteran, you honestly shouldn't even begin to feel bad.
My scum game is a really, really difficult nut to crack because individual players are extremely smart, but the moment you make them into a democracy and they need to decide things by committee, and they don't have all the information they need, they always become extremely vulnerable.
Play more games with us. You are underselling your fundamentals.
And the number of people who have said "never again" to being fooled by me specifically, only to have it happen again, is substantial. Do not feel like you in particular were especially vulnerable, because unless the town has an alignment cop and scans me directly, their track record is pretty bad.
Visor is an excellent player and he town-read me. GH is as well. Winston Hughes even got pocketed by me. These are people who know me and have played with me for years and have seen what I can do as scum.
I think you really cannot beat yourself up over figuring me out.
I think the missed opportunity was perhaps not pushing Pelican, town in general didn't touch him and neither did the scums. The reasons why should have been looked into more. This was before Riedquat falsely cleared him.
I would have been extremely vulnerable as a claimed tracker with a dead scum roleblocker. Our entire team collapses after such a lynch.
Ok, just finished reading the mafia thread. Just one question, what is wogging?
Stands for Wrath Of God.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dp101
Modkilling someone for inactivity.
Had Pelican failed to post today, he'd have been modkilled and I would be flapping in the breeze as mechanically hard outed scum.
I would have conceded on the spot and said not the best way to lose a game, but you win some, you lose some, and would have said "note to self: have a plan B in case extremely busy and often absent mafia partner goes AWOL".
Town would have earned their win with atheotes' bulletproof slot drawing a kill. After that blunder by us, it was town's game to win again.
Dp101, I don't understand why you're upset at being played. It's the whole point of the game!
(and thus a wonderful grudge can be born, and you can nightkill atpg one day with prejudice if you're scum)
Oh, also one more thing I'm trying to figure out. Why did you keep wanting to NK me? I wasn't doing anything particularly threatening, but my name came up reasonably often in discussions of who to kill. Why not go after someone who appeared to have a power role? The only solid rationale I saw for my death would be that it would confuse people, but I can't see how.
Because this was my first loss, and I was enjoying a 100% win rate, which is now shattered ;-; Also, because no one likes feeling like they have been lied to. Its one thing to have someone you have barely interacted with flip, its another for someone who has given you advice throughout the game to suddenly turn out to have been lying.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Barto
It's not fun to feel like you got played.
Even if it's an expected outcome of the game, it's a big time investment on the part of the player and if they saw their efforts fail then it causes a lot of self-doubt.
Remember: It's a guessing game on the internets where some people weren't very active. It's hard to get a good read off of Pelican, jht, Al Sips, etc, particularly early on. Think of it like a casual game of poker with your friends.
The chips don't matter, it's all for fun. If you lose this round, you'll win the next three. Even if it was a very long night of playing, it's just one session. There will be many and you'll be on the winning side plenty of times.
It will make the first time (and it won't be the only time) you defeat me while being scum and I'm town, all the more satisfying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dp101
When it happens, you totally need to say "When I left you, I was but the learner. Now I am the master" and post an image of darth vader.
That will make up for not being able to post this if I had won this time.
Thanks to Zack for organizing and hosting this game.
Thanks to Khaan for being a valued member of the team, I think you played well enough that if it wasn't exactly the town vig you were voting, you'd have gone undetected for a while.
Oh yes, I forgot. Thank you Zack for hosting! Still annoyed I got vanilla, but whatever.
You're redirecting your anger towards the GM. Good, good. Embrace the Dark Side.
Flaws build character.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dp101
I'm going to say what I said about Visor after only seeing him play a couple of times: If you stick with this, you will become one of the best players I will have ever come across. The force is strong with with you. With experience, you will trust yourself more (and your votes, before being persuaded to move them, were winning on several rounds), and you will also have the experience and rhetorical tools necessary to detect and combat verbal trickery better.
That's all you're lacking, is experience. I'm not just saying that to butter you up. I rarely pass out such judgments of new players after only seeing them in one game.
You have the fundamentals and the drive and the WIM to become truly great.
Don't really like the "VT gets to talk after death" thing very much from a design perspective.
Didn't happen this game, but had a strong player been spk'd night 1 and flipped VT, I think thats really rough on the wolves for no real reason.
Reminds me of Luke Skywalker facing the Emperor. You have what it takes to be one of the strongest Jedi, but you just happened to go against a foe that was your match. Had some more experienced villain switched allegiances and lynched me with you, the death star would have blowed up.
Also, everything is star wars with me, apparently.
Not to be confused with being quite the character.Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
spk'd?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stork
Strong Player KilledQuote:
Originally Posted by El Barto
Thank you for the strong praise. Now I just need to not let it go to my head.
Was a common practice on this site at one time. There are several strategies for dealing with that. Dead vanilla towns have no vote and know nothing particularly special. And the mafia can play against their minds just as well as they can play against live townies. It's easier for the scums to blend in when everyone starts sheeping the confirmed townies. Just like when they sheep masons or a cop. I've been on scum teams who have defeated a couple dozen towns who have tried such brute methods. When the town unites too much, it's anti-analysis for vote purposes. And when the town leaders know nothing, that's a recipe for an easier sweep, even.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stork
I remember a truly terrible game I played way back when called the Chicago Soiree...
Oh, wait... did you say strong player? Because my strong player credentials go out the window when you analyze such games by me.
TBH my town game is middling these days.
Meh, could be a style thing but I think if the wolves take the risk of not role hunting on purpose to remove a strong player (read: particularly in read quality and effort), the punishment is that they don't kill a pr, they don't need to be punished twice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
I understand why the roles can't talk after death but it just seems a bit volatile in terms of certain things being at odds with player styles.
Plus how do you enjoy dead chat if you have to post in the game thread, that's no fun.
We *didn't* get Dead Chat. Only the power roles did.
Well, would have, if Zack had remembered to set up the QT and give players a link to it.