Has anyone ever gotten a bug with these units where if you group then line them up they don't "line" up? They form in random directions and don't connect.Quote:
Originally Posted by ziegenpeter
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Has anyone ever gotten a bug with these units where if you group then line them up they don't "line" up? They form in random directions and don't connect.Quote:
Originally Posted by ziegenpeter
That's an RTW bug (often happening when you fight a "seige" battle on a city with no walls). I had it happen everywhere and with every unit though.
Elite units don't count for surprisingly good. It isn'y surprising to see cataphracts break the enemy through charges. Because they are cataphracts. Their purpose is to do just that. If they didn't do it well, then they would be surprisingly bad.
Seeing that there are only 20 of em does make that just that for me.:idea2:Quote:
Originally Posted by A Very Super Market
On what size?
That of 20 :clown:.Quote:
Originally Posted by A Very Super Market
It was on large by the way.:2thumbsup:
That's not too bad. On huge, that is 40 cataphracts, the same as a non-heir/leader family member, and made to win.
I just destoried your argument! :P
https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...ilan_agema.gif
Taxilan Agema; I tried them in my current Baktria game and if they aren't bad, then I just don't now how to use them. I was expection some hidden gem of heavy cavalry considering their price, but to me they're just medium armoured skirmishers.
I tried using them like heavy cavalry, but they have no charge to speak of and in actual melee they die so fast it is humiliating realising how much money I just threw away (Note; I play medium difficulty battles).
The only way I found I could use them effectively is by using them as skirmishers, throwing javalins and harassing enemy skirmishers. But there are many more cheaper options available for that.
It kinda sad; I really like the way they look.
Supposedly, on VH, the +7 bonus is applied only to AI ATTACK, not defense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cullhwch
100% Agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raygereio
They are good skirmisers, but to expensive and still die like flies...:juggle2:Quote:
Originally Posted by machinor
The non-Kataphract level heavy cavalry are underpowered. Their job is to hit into anything (not spearmen) in the front to disrupt their formation which makes it easy for infantry to kill the enemy. Problem is that unless they're Katas, they lose almost 10 men per charge which puts them at a severe disadvantage.
No, horribly wrong.
Cataphracts are supposed to do that. The only way you could expect to assault the front of a formation is if you were covered in armour. Non cataphract heavy cavalry is to act as the hammer smashing in the back of a formation.
I thought mediums are supposed to be the hammers?
But I do suppose what you say makes sense, just that I thought they had adequate armor for head ons.
What do mediums do, exactly? In-game they are grouped with heavy cavalry, as are cataphracts.
Skirmishers- Annoy
Lights- Chase away
Mediums- Half ^^ half vv?
Heavies- Hammer
Cataphracts- INVINCIBLE CHARGE ANYWHERE
Medium Cavallery are divided in different classes.
Some of them are really tough in close combat, like the Tarantines, the campanians and the makedonian companian skirmishers. They are also skirmishers and better armoured, but slower than light cavallery and have quite weak charges.
Than there are the really fast charge cavallery who are perfect for flanking, routing skirmishers and catching horse archers. The podromoi are probably one of them, but you might argue, that they are light ones. Others would be the lonchoporoi Hippeis. The modern greece cavallery or the liby phoenician ones.
And then there are the quite useless old medium style cavallery like the Hippeis, the roman citizen cavallery and the eastern and median ones. They have weak charges, no javalines and are slow, but they are decent anti cavallery and anti skirmisher fighters and still able to flank the enemy, but rather to fight of or just tie the enemies flanking forces.
In my carthage campaign i first used these
https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...ian_nobles.gif
and was rather dissapointed... i still use them, although very rarely (they didn't make it in my 2 iberian armys:yes:)
then went on to using these as my main medium cavalry force...
https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...an_curisii.gif
of course they're not the same type of cavalry, but i was much more satisfied with the latter, i mean they really do a good job at charging, and even fighting in mellee for a whlie
I also prefer charging cavalery(Even if unhistorical) over the skirmish/close combat ones. The skirmisher ones just suck against most of the enemies, while a good charge in the bakc is always helpfull :2thumbsup:
There are quite a few threads about the effectiveness of heavy cavalry in EB. At one point an EB member challenged the OP to find historical examples of cavalry breaking formed heavy infantry with a frontal charge (from EB's time-frame, obviously). Since then only one example turned up: Alexander charging the Kardaskes as the battle of Issos, and even that is debatable (personally, I suspect the Kardaskes were thrown into disarray by Alexander's Agranians appearing on the flank: it looks like the Persian did not anticipate an attack on that flank at all). IIRC the Seleucids Cataphracts routed a Roman legion at the battle of Magnesia as well, but there may be something else going on as well. So, unles you know other examples, it looks like heavy cavalry, even cataphracts, breaking formed heavy infantry from the front is exceptional.Quote:
Originally Posted by heldelance
Heavy Cavalry will not break disciplined heavy infantry in formation in any period. Not even the Middle Ages that are my greatest period of expertise and the socalled "Age of Cavalry". personally I prefer to call it "Age of absence of trained infantry", as the dominance of the Knight was more a question of governmental structure/social organisation ("Feudalism" though revise your opinion of what that was by reading Susan Reynolds). There were no states with enough organisation to train heavy foot like the Legions of Rome (that basically takes a highly organised and hierarchial state), thus ruling depended on the local magnates (Knights = Heavy Cav) as did military. A Knight can train for war alone or with a few companions and be effective, a footsoldier cannot. Add to that the martial ethos of the ruling class that evolved into chivalry and you have an age where the Knight/Heavy cavalry dominated. Except on the few occasions when they did encounter organised and disciplined foot that did not run away to get hacked down, but stood their ground and repelled the charge. Tours and Hastings are the two first example I can think of. But others pop up throughout the age to culminate in English longbow and Swiss Pike slaughtering the chivalry of France and Burgund.
Heavy cavalry and frontal charges...perhaps not very historical, but today an enemy Seleucid General charged my Koinon Hellenon Phalangitais directly through the pikes...I lost over 40 men immediately (huge size, that makes 40 out of 242 men):dizzy2:.
https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...halangitai.gif vs. https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...d_hetairoi.gif
KH Phalangitai are a little cheaper then Pezhetairoi, but have also lower stats and very important lower morale. Of course they are the only phalanx unit available for KH, but they are inferior to all other medium Phalangitai and you need a level 4 MIC to recruit them. The AOR on the other hand is ok, Taras, Kyrene, Alexandria, Antiochia are strategical good positions.
IMO they are some of the best units that the KH have, but are suprisingly bad in comparison to the successors. Yes I know that KH is a Hoplitai faction and not a Phalangitai, but makimg the KH Phalangitai available at level 3 MIC wouldn't harm.:clown:
Ceterum censeo Romam esse delendam
Wow, how many bodyguards did this general have? Were you playing on Medium?
Surprisingly swift to... DIE:skull:: Hoplitai Troglodutikes
https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...a_hoplites.gif
First experience: One unit set to pin (but not assault) a Klerouchikon Agema phalanx, the other sent head-to-head with a thorakitai unit. Both on guard mode and not flanked. They got slaughtered down to less than half the original unit size even while every other unit in my army was hacking away at the enemy rear, two Sabaean generals among these - so in the end the enemy got routed but at a very unaccustomed price. Even Ekdromoi Hoplitai don't get butchered SO fast. Tell me the secret ingredient to make soldiers out of them... Or the proper tactic to use them. I feel badly frustrated - I was hoping for these guys to solve my problem of having no proper front-line survivor infantry in the Ethiopian area. Please don't say "...well, get Alexandreia and wait till you get a lvl 5 regional MIC there".
Even more swift to :skull:: Aithiopikoi Machairophoroi
https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u..._swordsmen.gif
And they cost ~400minai upkeep... much more than peltasts and they seem to be simply --- un-capable. Is their only possible use charging three units of them simultaneously into the rear of ONE phalanx and hoping the phalanx routs within the first five seconds (before all of these guys are dead)? I am slightly exaggerating, but it was really bad - a unit of them got ripped to shreds on a wall by a quarter unit of peltasts... Had to back them up with a unit of
Great steam-rollers against anything not pointing pikes at them: Giusim Aravim 'im Garzenim
https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...sea_axemen.gif
I really like these guys; the problem is that you don't get them outsike of Arabia...
To defend the Hoplitai Troglodutikes:
As their description says, they're meant to chase and fight light units from skirmishers to maximum Peltastai. Their use is similar to the one of the Ekdromoi Hoplitai.
It was a young General, so about 70-80 bodyguards. I play on M/M so no crazy bonuses, but they had a higher ground advantage. Normally (on even grounds) only a few horsemen get through the pikes, the AI seldomly makes frontalcharges, it normally walks slowly in the phalanx. I thought this would happen again, but this time the AI was 'smarter'. I also underestimate the higher ground bonus...damn 40 men in one sec!? But it looked awesome.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwissBarbar
Ceterum censeo Romam esse delendam
Oh God, I wasted so much money getting these guys, back when I didn't look at stats and traits (fast moving, etc). Sent a bunch of these poor bastards to India with my phalangite-based army and was surprised when the only survivors of that battle were my two family members. Literally. Two people survived.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raygereio
:gah:
It wouldnt harm if they were recruitable without the romans building a huge city in italy... :juggle2::juggle2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Zett
about Taxilan Agema, I have not used them, but I do know from my Lusotanan game (their family members are very similar) that you should use sword armed cavalry for: skirmishing, fighting lance armed cavalry and chasing routers. Do not try charging infantry.
But considering the other options in the area, they probably aren't that good.
Yes, they're not bad themselves, but the point is that their price is a bit high.
True; actually I wouldn't be surprised to find historical reference to the KH (or rather, "parts of southern Greece") using at least some pikemen even around the starting date of EB. I mean, Korinthos had a garrison of them, right? So what happens if it is liberated from Makedonia...? But gameplay-wise, the KH would be too easy if you had them from the start. Same reason for which you don't get Hoplitai @lvl1 MIC as KH (where they are available, considering the KH really represents independent cities, they would defend their homes immediately after being liberated from other powers)...Quote:
Originally Posted by seienchin
To get phalangitai without MOT, >>MAKE A BACKUP FIRST<<
You can mod the files... Need to edit "export_descr_buildings.txt" @ "D:\Games\RTW\EB\Data" (or wherever you have your game); edit the two lines where it says "and march of time" - just delete the last part, thus removing the condition but leaving the rest of those lines un-changed.
I don't know why it's two lines for one unit, but apart from that the file's entries are pretty much self-explanatory. I changed both lines (because I made a point of aiding the Hellenes in Megale Hellas early on, thus making it necessary to sack rome, Capua, Ariminum to avoid a red flood) and it worked just fine. You still need a high MIC for them though. So given the insane growth rate of AI controlled settlements, you don't get them much earlier by removing the MOT condition without power-gaming.