Of course, burning books in the presence of kids is the proper way of getting rid of the books you don't need. Perhaps such words as "paper recycling" also belong to the Crimean past which no one wants to remember.Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
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Of course, burning books in the presence of kids is the proper way of getting rid of the books you don't need. Perhaps such words as "paper recycling" also belong to the Crimean past which no one wants to remember.Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
It's October 21st and Validmir Putin is still a fascist
It's a good way to teach people to let go of old things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilrandir
It's also October 21st and Obama is still a Communist Kenyan.
Islamist-Communist Kenyan with designs on repealing the 22nd amendment and anti-Malthusian population control via Ebola. I mean, if you are gonna haul out the birther crap, you might as well toss them all in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
It has to be short and to the point, it's not like Strike mentioned all the faults, just drop the word fascist and that's enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh
What's next? People who call Kim Jong Un a dictator?
Correction: UNdictator.Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
You know, Putin is pretty old, so ...:laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
You mean the history of Crimea between 1953 and 2014?Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
That wrong information?
And before 1783.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla
They live in Russia, there is no reason for Russians to learn Ukrainian history.
It's not like schools in Texas have a focus on teaching Mexican history, or is it?
When Ukraine became independent and textbooks on the history of the USSR were out of use they were just taken to archives. No one made conflagrations with them in front of municipal buildings. Like if you bought a new car and you won't need the old one (or you think you won't) you don't blow it up in your backyard with all the neighbors watching it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
In the case of Crimea it is about a civilized attitude to the past one might have had. It looks like they wish to forget every moment of history which could hint that it didn't belong to Russia since biblical times (especially the Crimean khanate and Ukrainian chapters of it). Since this wish coincides with (or indeed comes from) Moscow, it seems that they will succeed in in rather soon and new editions of Russian history textbooks will not have any mentioning of Crimea being at times not within Russia.
For example, during Soviet times it was a dogma that in 9-13th century there was a polity called Kievan Rus, the cradle of three "fraternal peoples" - Russian, Ukrainian and Belorussian (in this very order of mentioning). Modern Russian textbooks call this country "the Old Russian state". All mentioning of Kiev was obliterated from them. The same is likely to happen to Crimean history.
That explains why Russia has a better economy than Ukraine, they waste less tax money on storage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilrandir
Textbooks are utterly irrelevant. I do not understand why on earth people care about them. Their only use is for text analysis, and there's a limit to how much of that you can do in a year.
It's the 21st century now people, get with the program.
And the idea that you should only learn the history of your own country is utterly bonkers. Have fun raising the next generation of Nazi's.
I'm afraid textbooks are the only way to make modern kids learn at least something of history and then check whether they learned it.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
We learn about the history of our country to learn that being a Nazi is bad, that we should be ashamed of it for all eternity and to prevent us from raising another generation of Nazis (without the apostrophe so it is actually plural and not genitive, the genitive, btw., is something that is being replaced by the dative in common usage of the German language, it's nice that people like it in English, but it is still not a plural form).Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
We also learn the important bits about the history of other countries, but only a few events had place in our history curriculum over the years. Mostly because we did the French revolution over and over again. But even the French revolution is more important than for Russians to learn about the techniques of corruption, cronyism and crawling into Putin's behind that Yanukovich practiced in recent Ukrainian history.
I'm sure Russians also burned all the books glorifying Staling when Putin recently decided that Hitler should be the guiding figure for his nation and politics as people here led me to believe.
Nonsense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilrandir
We're living in the 21st century, not the 19th. We use modern tools now.
I have used a textbook in my social science class once. That's it. And the reason I used it was for the students to analyze a text on the Vietnam war and see how the authors tried to pack 3 distinct viewpoints into the same text while trying to pass it off as "being objective". And failing utterly at the attempt.
Attachment 14689Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
In Ukraine schoolchildren have two subjects - history of Ukraine and world history, so they move in parallel courses studying both what was going on in Ukraine and in the world at the same period of time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
In fact, during Putin's presidency there has been a sharp return (sic! not turn, but REturn) in Russian historical science from openly negative attitude to Stalin's regime (practised in the USSR and Russia in 1986-2000) to more or less positive with the emphasis on the progress the country made during his reign.Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
Perhaps you do, no doubt. Ukraine is still to go a long way to catch up with the West. In this country (as well as in Russia) a textbook is the principal manual for kids to use. Moreover, our kids are too lazy to search for information and arguments themselves. They want it cut and dried and ready for consumption. Besides, in Ukraine (I don't know what it's like in Europe) kids at high schools and most universities don't choose the subjects they are taught - consequently they have to study half of those they consider useless for their future life and carreer. As you realize, they are not interested in them which adds to the reluctance for search I have mentioned.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
That is what I thought, until I mentioned it in this thread when everybody was calling him the reincarnation of Hitler and people explained to me that he is a Hitler fanboy now. Obviously he is still in puberty and looking for his identity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilrandir
That picture reply is just further proof that you are willing to call anyone a Nazi if it serves your agenda!
Maybe we can try to go back on track.
In two days, on the 26th, parliamentary elections will be held in Ukraine.
According to most polls, Poroshenko's and Klitschko's bloc is leading with between 11% and 45% voters supporting them, depending on the poll. The election system is mixed, with 50% of the Rada being chosen from the party lists and 50% under constituencies, in a first past the post system. The threshold is 5%.
After Poroshenko, Radical party of Lyashko has most support, followed closely by Yulia Timoshenko's party. Svoboda will most like surpass the 5% threshold.
Elections won't be held in a some areas in Eastern Ukraine, most notably in parts of Donbas and Luhansk, which prompted Party of Regions to decide to boycott the elections as illegitimate. Some Party of Regions members will appear as independent candidates within an Opposition Bloc's list. Opposition Bloc is supposed to represent all anti-Maidan forces, but it appears they haven't managed to achieve that. Nevertheless, it appears Opposition Bloc will also get seats in the parliament.
Communist party will also be a minor force, they will get between 5% and 13% of support, according to the polls. Yatseniuk's new party, People's Front, will also make it, with around 8% of the votes.
So, Poroshenko and Klitschko will be looking for coalition partners to form the government. Ideally, they will be able to do it without Svoboda, Radical Party and other extremists. Yatseniuk's formation of a new party signals difficulties for cooperation with Timoshenko, and I'm not sure what's his relation with Poroshenko. Poroshenko will most likely have to choose between Yatseniuk and/or Timoshenko, and slightly more extreme groups.
Around 3 million people (not counting Crimea), primarily in southeastern Ukraine, won't be able to vote, which won't help legitimacy of the new parliament.
This is what my education was like, and I live in the US. Textbooks were the core of my history classes and a lot of teachers taught straight out of the book without adding any additional insight or information. I didn't do any sort of textual analysis until college, and then it was comparing Howard Zinn, a popular progressive historian, to Larry Schwiekart, a conservative who is endorsed by Glenn Beck. I think Norway is ahead of the game when it comes to education.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilrandir
None of this matters to the use of textbooks. And your description of students is universal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilrandir
Norway still uses textbooks, which is one of the reasons I don't work in a Norwegian school anymore. Not that I used the ones we had back then anyway...Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuuvi
Well, except when covering a class in a subject I don't teach(like language). In that case, a textbook is a god-send. At all other times, you can create better lessons yourself.
The two are not irreconcilable - one can valourise Stalin as a great Russian tsar and still be a Fascist - stalin wasn't any kind of CommieQuote:
Originally Posted by Husar
If you look carefully at the picture you will notice that it is one used to criticize/mock so called "grammar nazis" (in case you don't know those are people who pay excessive attention to the grammar their internet interlocutors use and swoop at them if they make mistakes). Your reaction to the apostrophe issue made me remember it. This was the only reason I posted it - it has no relation whatever to political or ideological views you may have expressed in your posts. To tell the truth, I myself am close to being one (an inevitable consequence of my walk of life). So I may address this picture to myself as well.~;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
Hardly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarmatian
There is one more oppositional party on the roster - Strong Ukraine headed by Tygypko. He culled the most moderate (and economy oriented) splinters of the Party of Regions and is likely to make it to the parliament.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarmatian
It isn't likely to squeeze in. Yet it has a chance to try - whatever Brenus may have claimed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarmatian
Radical party is different from Svoboda by the absence of nationalistic ideological platform Svoboda uses. In everything else (hang-the-oligarchs-by-the-balls rhetorics) it is likely to appeal to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarmatian
In fact, it is not a new party - he goes back to a separate party format he had had before 2012 elections, but now he has lured into it some Tymoshenko's most ardent supporters (as they were believed to be) - Turchinov, Avakov and some minor ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarmatian
Poroshenko has very strained relations with Tymoshenko which goes back to 2005. At that time she was the prime minister and he was the head of President's administration and they were competing for influence upon the insipid Yushchenko. Tymoshenko eventually won and Poroshenko was evicted from the administration.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarmatian
In view of this she is not likely to satisfy Poroshenko as the prime minister.
In your general overview of the parties likely to get in you didn't mention Civic Stance headed by Grytsenko and Self-help by the mayor of Lviv Sadovy, both of which have pretty good chances to score 5%.
One more peculiarity of current elections - a comparatively great percentage of journalists and volunteer battalion commanders and soldiers on party rosters.
According to the estimates of the Central Electoral Board the figure is 4.6 million.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarmatian
In the latter case you are to prepare hand-outs and distribute them - otherwise it is difficult to outline the mandatory minimum for the students to learn. Well, perhaps you have your own recipes for success in a classroom.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
Seriously?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilrandir
Will you also sing a song to me until I sleep?
The wrong use of plural and genitive forms is rampant nowadays, and mixing grammar up can lead to misunderstandings and misunderstandings can lead to wars and wars can lead to nuclear wars.
So tell me: Do you want to die or can I go on correcting other people's grammar mistakes?
Also, PVC: Hitler said that Stalin was a commie!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
For public information: Having spent countless time in Germany and with Germans, I'd just like to inform you all that this is their way of saying - "THIS. IS. SPAAARTA!!!"
Sir, no, sir.Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
Even if I chose the former would you stop doing the latter? If I did what fun it would be to read my post mortem as under "the cause of death" it would say "confusing plural and genitive". Yet my choice doesn't seem to matter, so you will go on doing whatever you please. But doing this see to it that your toil of correcting mistakes is comprehensive. To me it appears that you are involved in what you have been denouncing so vehemently when we still discussed the situation in Ukraine. You likened protests on Maidan and in the East and criticized America/EU supporting the former and condemning the latter. You are doing pretty much the same: correcting mistakes of those whose stance doesn't coincide with yours and condoning mistakes of those (namely Brenus) who are of the like mind with you. If Hore Tore makes one he should be corrected and taught what is right and wrong, but Brenus is welcome to make as many as he likes as long as is in the same camp. Where the impartiality you boast of?
As for the chain of reasoning you applied it is definitely the fruit of a sleepy mind. If I follow it I must admit that the cause of the war Ukraine is in fact involved in is Yanukovych misspelling the words "association agreement" last November. So my singing a lullaby to you would have been a proper thing to do (seeing the time you posted your message at). Yet I think that it would rather keep you wakeful than lull you as it would sound to you something like
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD-E-LDc384
So you should look for others (whose lyrics are more agreeble) to do it.
Summing it up, I would call the main reason of misunderstanding the inabilty to tell whether your interlocutor is serious or is just kidding/trolling you.
Whatever they might have said of each other, they had very much in common. Both used the same methods against their rivals, both covered their countries with a network of concentration camps to keep the dissident and the recalcitrant, and look at the posters, parades, sport shows held in both countries at that time - they are clones. The only thing they differed in was the reasons they gave for advocating and propagating the total war: Hitler explained the hard life of his people by the conspiracy and sabotage of other nations and nationalities both within the country and outside it; Stalin explained it by conspiracy and sabotage of capitalists outside it and their accomplices within it. So justifying Stalin in Russian official historical science is in fact justifying Hitler.Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
Indeed. Just like Stalin, being a dirty commie, brought out some serious worship of past Russian noblemen(Kutuzov) during WWII.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla
Cease this prescriptivism, everyone know(')s what he meant!Quote:
The wrong use of plural and genitive forms is rampant nowadays, and mixing grammar up can lead to misunderstandings and misunderstandings can lead to wars and wars can lead to nuclear wars.
You forgot "thi(')s", but I dislike you anyway!!!!11111Quote:
Originally Posted by Hax
It should not be wrong to ask for at least some level of precision in language.
Especially in a language as imprecise and simple as English.
What if Hitler's application for art school was rejected because his letter of application contained too much bad grammar?
WHAT THEN??????ßßßß
Even journalists are incredibly sloppy nowadays, how can you trust their research if they can't even be bothered to write correctly?
lol.Quote:
and simple as English.