Gemma's Favorite Music Mafia

i wonder how much gemma enjoyed visor's disloyal wolf inventor in atla...

maple def wouldn't be a bury the invention in the NK coward like twice.

oddnight redirector, even night redirector, town arso, town inventor feels like a weird mix.

:speechless:

i wanna ignore all y'alls claims and solve off socials but that would make me still wanna kill maple.......

ben i dont really think rask role makes a ton of sense with wolf arso. i think i'd rather leave taffy for now.

Vote: Lissa wanna hear a bit more here i think :3

If I cross with the kill I die lol

if i entertain the idea of all PRs being town (which is not at all a given imo lol) things shake up something like this aorn for me, tiers unordered within:

nebjiamn
Arctic
Maple
Taffy

didistetter
annika

pzelda
waza

ladd
Visor
Lissa
Ender
dyachei




im gonna fuck off and conserve my last 11 posts or whatever. i think rn i'm leaning toward an elim in ladd/dya/ender/maple but i don't really know how i want to prioritize all these claims yet so mmmv

gth if all claims are true (unlikely) pzelda really needs to be given a true look-see

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_osBc6S9YE

:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 2 - Votes from post 673 through 883

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
1	Visor	waza (22)
1	dyachei	nebjiamn (39)
1	ladd	Visor (13)
9	Not Voting	Arctic (22), EnderWiggin (13), Lissa (5), Maple (20), Totally not Taffy (6), annika (13), dyachei (2), ladd (16), pzelda (10), didistetter (26)

I guess that means I die if I cross with am ignite, I hadn't thought about that

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maple

If I cross with the kill I die lol

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sounds like a disloyal wolf conditional..........

Indeed

4 PRs in a 15er is weird but I guess it's possible?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maple

Look, kill me or annika idc. She's clearly acting in bad faith towards me. If I somehow get voted out here, presumably due to tiny wagons in a 15p game, then fuck it, give me my one.

49

Saving my last post to selfprez. I'm not a nerd who needs extra posts at EoD.

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hmmm..... bolded doesnt feel PR-y though.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arctic

Wdym when your bombs go off? You don't have to kill me, do you?

I.. am not sure how much I believe this. Mainly because if you believed there was anticlaim then why would you blatantly soft in your first post? And why believe there was anticlaim in the first place? Secondly because in a 15'er, unless there are 4 wolves (which just based on how the game vibes as towny, I don't think is likely) with 3 wolves there is almost no way town has KP and if they do then wolves absolutely do too so... where is it? For that reason I don't really consider your claim in itself AI and I'm instead going off of your behaviour around it, and the anticlaim stuff + voting me and dipping is just.. kinda hard for me to reconcile as genuine. But I do like how you brought light to the fact I am probably a PR today

Since you have doused me, yeah, I am a PR. Specifically I'm the even night version of Sunbae's role. I was not informed about any anticlaim. So I will in fact self-resolve and you should not kill me. Especially because it does not get us a ML

I'm not at all convinced you're town but I feel like I've been outplayed either way, weirdly. Claiming to have ttargeted specifically me after I already claimed I wasn't a PR has put me in a pretty bad position (lmao) because.. if you are a wolf planning to use your role leashed to whoever town wants you to kill then killing me is a perfect way of killing a villager without being outted, because I was in everyone's PoE already

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U didn’t need to have claimed

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maple

Eh Im just gonna send it

I'm an inventor and I gave nl a track last night. The whole *bombs* thing is a pretty funny coincidence.

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Why did you out what u gave? U could have just claimed inventor and left it at that

Quote:

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Originally Posted by waza

idk lol

u/ladd were my designated tinfoils if taffy seemed town

u seemed towny enough last couple of pages and errrr im not worried about ladd cos i know people are just gonna hound his ass all game regardless of alignment

maple seems fine enough ig

ender is townreading me all game and i like it, doesnt neccessarily make him town though

so it really just boils down to if i think theres 2 wolves in that pool......and im like errrr maybe? but im not really convinced it has to be the case either, and plus i think most of those names should get got before me lmao, unless someone gets hell tunneled but thats on them not me if that happens

so yaaa this is a big lead up to a very disappointing finish where i just say im shrugging and trying to aim for the wolf i lose to now rather than later before its too late, not convinced it has to be lissa but im just testing the waters. mostly just boiled down to me looking back at eod votes, trying to think what wolves would be doing and what their wincons would be. lissas vote on rask seemed pretty random so yah i voted there and will see what happens or how i feel in the morning or after ive read the game some more

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Why do you see it as random? It was pretty obviously me thinking it was incorrect to kill Taffy and figuring I should make sure that didn't happen.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by waza

ig one of the things with ladd is that for me to believe hes a wolf i have to accept thats hes played against his own wincon during this game lmao

hes a smart gui, probs one of the smartest i met on fm so i somewhat expect him to be aware of how certain things would play out if hes a wolf

and if hes a wolf that means hes townsided unnecessarily to his own detriment at times (im going off vague memory so ill need to fact check)

like if ben is town which i think he is, then lads shielded me ben sunbae from getting heat when we were vulnerable. ok sure i somewhat forced him into townreading me so that doesnt count as much, and if ben is town hes the type of town that i imagine anyone with tmi would have a really hard time trying to justify a sr on

but with sunbae, there was a moment where sunbae was getting alota heat, and ladd spoke out against it and has been vocal against pushing the taffy wagon. the thing is though, if ladds a wolf hes well aware that hes on a timer, and that people have vocally expressed if taffy is town they'll push him. so its in ladds benefit to delay the taffy flip as long as he can,rrather then reinforce it. so for example when haru gets pushed, ladd is much better off just doing literally anything other than what he did lmao.

tbf one of the last times i tried to apply a wolf strategy read on someone it failed (twice) but i dont remember many other times its backfired. im not outright clearing ladd and will obv keep an open eye, its just i cant really figure out what his game plan would be as wolf, i can make a similar case for maple albeit i find it less convincing so i probs wont unless i feel stronger about it

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I think this is pretty misplaced? Of course a ladd wolf is going to do things like shield some villagers; also ben was absolutely not ever seriously vulnerable, and frankly I didn't really think sunbae was ever going over D1 either, I was kinda baffled when he claimed ngl. makes more sense w/ what the role was but at the time I was sort of confused

idk I don't think sunbae was ever going over lol just on VIBES maybe I'm wrong

I don't think delaying the taffy flip is unambiguously beneficial for ladd; it's a tradeoff of ensuring you GET that flip versus delaying looking bad for it but it potentially not happening?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by annika

wrt to Maple: I've read over both your and Lissa's reasons for doubting she's a wolf here, and I get it, but it's not quite convincing to me. possibly because it's a meta thing and I'm not too familiar with Maple

from my PoV she did kinda push wolf agenda though, because I was a viable wagon that Lissa was voting on (at least) and Ben projected a strong-ish wolfread on me for a while before postcapping; she could reasonably think that push could go through at EoD

the main thing in her favour is that she didn't vote Arctic, but... FMPOV it's like townreading her for townsiding *at all*. she didn't do anything to defend his wagon at the very least. she also didn't do much to defend Taffy besides say "how are we going Taf here" after she claimed PR lol

I think giving her cred for not voting Taffy is like insane imo she was LITERALLY a PR claim asdgfkldashgkj and Maple PoE'd her before the claim

there's not much else you can do to wolfside at EoD besides push on Taffy (a claimed PR), so it's really just that she didn't vote Arctic. and that would've been at odds with her read list in 476 anyway ^^;

imo she just exhausted her options when both of the people at the bottom of her list claimed PR, she was stuck voting the third. maybe you can argue "why didn't she bus?" but meh that's WIFOM

(ftr this is just me explaining why the reasons to TR her aren't convincing to me, not that anything I'm mentioning here is explicitly wolfie—it goes either way, I just have other reasons to SR her)

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in terms of my other reads... I still think Ben's v, and I've kinda been feeling better about Ender recently based on his wolfread of Arctic. Stett's/Waza's/Taffy's posting has kinda just reaffirmed my previous reads on them, so not much has rly changed for me besides Ender xD

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To be clear my stuff re: maple is a her whole play this game thing not at all just eod; it's her entire approach to d1 as a whole. Like it's not really about the eod though that's a part of it; I just think she'd have played the whole day in a way that would have ended up positioning her more usefully at eod + in general as a wolf.

I just spent the better part of four days wolfing with her in like a SUPER intense wolfgame and obviously this game wouldn't look like that it's not exactly comparable in that sense, but I just. really don't think this is what it would look like, I feel like I have a pretty good insight into how she thinks when wolfing now, and this just doesn't fit.

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I think Taffy being a neutral is extremely possible. Just kinda instinctively it feels like a thing that makes sense? Both in terms of what the role is and how it fits into what we know of the setup I feel like it's probably the world we are in, town arso doesn't really quite feel right?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Totally not Taffy

When I saw Rask flipped wolf I remembered this conversation Benneh and Lissa had (I've truncated them to only the relevant parts)



And I think I misunderstood what Benneh was saying bc to me "vigilance" means "watchfulness" and therefore "being protective of someone" and Happy was not protective of Rask at all (all Happy posts about Rask up till that point in spoiler)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

But now having gathered them all to make this post I assume the vigilance referred to something like being very focused on something (in this case the zero-poster)?

Anyway this is a lead-in to ask @nebjiamn and @Lissa why they aren't pushing Happy today for the over the top TWTBAW "I'm bussing Rask" joke three times and then voting there EoD but switching off when the wagon actually takes off.

Taffy (6)

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waza's handling of rask doesn't... really make sense if he is a wolf. I mean there's worlds where it was some weird levelly thing, but like. waza was probably part of the reason killing rask ever got seriously considered? I'd guess he put the thought in at least some heads with what he was doing earlier in the day? then he chooses to not vote there eod? I don't reaaallly think that's the choice he makes there as a wolf? like it's not strictly impossible but it's kinda jank.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maple

Eh Im just gonna send it

I'm an inventor and I gave nl a track last night. The whole *bombs* thing is a pretty funny coincidence.

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oh that's what that was

cute soft lol

I think I'm probably village reading dya more strongly than I should be, gonna give them a reread

Still pretty strongly think visor is a villager, I think his focus/choices of direction here would be different/are pretty odd if he's a wolf and not how he'd be inclined to approach things

Quote:

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Originally Posted by didistetter

@Visor confirm ?

Vote: Unvote

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Go look at his first post this day phase where he mentions nl and track

Seems likely

Now I'm dead tho f

Quote:

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Originally Posted by waza

Why did you out what u gave? U could have just claimed inventor and left it at that

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No reason not to, it's easily derivable from my post at start of day.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

why couldn't he just be a wolf who was getting progressively boxed in by other reads on you?

when you said you cleared him at eod i thought you meant like, actually eod

what's your read on him if you ignore how he's reading you entirely?

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trying to get caught up, but this stuck out to me

If I ignore how he's reading me entirely he's kind of null to me. he's done things I think are towny and things I think are wolfy.

That's why I'm leaning on that, and yes, he could have felt boxed out, but a lot of people werent reading me all that strongly at the time so...idk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lissa

yeah I've kind of come around to that; want to see what she has to say today/see her claim fully, but



Wait what

I didn't catch that at all, I mean multiple other people also still tried to kill taffy after the claim? I also really wish you didn't say that because I really do not think it was that obvious, so I hope you're wrong.

mostly I think maple is playing super weird if she is a wolf, I really don't think this is how she would be playing this game at all if she had randed wolf. a wolf maple looks at the game and has a 0 posting partner d1 in a REALLY villagery thread full of really strong players, she can surely tell she's gonna have to go deep this game. and just going rask if it turned out there wasn't really a better option at eod was clearly on several people's minds some way or another, I think, at least as some kind of faint consideration. I'm pretty confident she'd have picked up on that, and she both doesn't bus or try to at all look good and ALSO doesn't try to come up with any kind of real, meaningful alternative and just keeps tunneling annika?? idk it's really hard for me to see her choosing not to either try to capitalize on or avoid what happened and also for her to on top of that continue a tunnel that like everyone hates for no productive purpose

like if manti was a wolf she could've focused on pushing taffy or arctic (if they are villagers. if either is a wolf it's even weirder that she didn't try to get any kind of credit out of any of it, like ?????) or ladd (again if he is a villa but like... I mean these options aren't ALL gonna be wolves lol) or if there was another wolf also in danger it's MORE weird that she didn't actually either try to find a real alternative or take a side.

I just don't really see a wolf agenda in her posting at all. if she was a wolf she would be playing wildly different imo. there's a few different ways that could go depending on both her team and the choices she decides to make but none of them look anything like this.

also she would like, reaaallly want to win as a wolf in this playerlist lol

and her posting just isn't really advancing that, she's kinda off on her own adventure tryharding but in a way it's hard to imagine she thinks meaningfully advances her wincon as a wolf

I've actually talked myself into this read being stronger than it was before I typed this out. Her whole play this game is just completely at odds with how I imagine her approaching this game as a wolf.


ladd just kinda feels a bit idk, off. his posts just feel like they are missing something? he doesn't pop out as having done anything strongly villagery. not a read I feel super great about. shouldn't be a wolf with taffy though.

ender is a bit complicated. part of me just thinks they don't seem like they're on a team/in a wolfchat at all? certain kind of almost diconnected/off on their own. I don't see an agenda, they're just kind of meandering around thinking about things. but it's in such a way I kinda feel like I might be misreading a style thing? idk, I almost wrote them with a question mark in that second town tier.

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Lissa's part on Ladd is like...spot on

feels shitty for ben to call me villagery when I've been around then voting me anyway but I kind of get it. I'm just disappointed because my time has been severely limited this game so far and I'm likely to miss eod tomorrow, too

im kind of getting arctic v vibes from his posts. there's something...nonchalant about them? and that fits with the pr claim

I still think ben is a villager

I think waza is a villager and reading him is always like vibes for me. He feels good in thread rn and he's not backing down on his convictions

Lissa probably v, the relief feels palpable after last game

I want visor to be a villager, and I think he is, but I'm clearly not unbiased here. I think his posts are visor-y though and they can go either way sometimes. I just think he tips the scale to villager

I'm backing off my v read of ladd because I agree with lissa that he feels off even if he is trying to hit the right notes and I'm concerned he had a hard time finding me

idk what to do with taffy's claim

Idk how to read ender well

Maple isn't striking me as overly villagery but I do think the item thing might be v

vote: ladd

if all the claims are legit:

we just have taffy not light up or like.. douse tbd , have arctic redirect visitors to visor onto himself, and visor cant die or be RBd and guaranteed gets a track off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajGKWk0auOc

:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 2 - Votes from post 673 through 901

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
2	ladd	Visor (14), nebjiamn (40)
1	Visor	waza (24)
9	Not Voting	Arctic (22), EnderWiggin (13), Lissa (7), Maple (23), Totally not Taffy (6), annika (14), dyachei (7), ladd (16), pzelda (10), didistetter (28)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by didistetter

if all the claims are legit:

we just have taffy not light up or like.. douse tbd , have arctic redirect visitors to visor onto himself, and visor cant die or be RBd and guaranteed gets a track off.

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Meh

Seems like a whole lot of setup and aversion of solving today (ie giving free passes to a cluster of pr claims I’m hesitant on)

And the payoff is close to nothing lol

I’d feel better about it if it didn’t increase the already high odds of Arctic dieing in the night

Meh, probs just gonna vanity today since I been busier than anticipated or just be arctics double voter

Quote:

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Originally Posted by waza

How many in rask ladd taffy dya?

Hopefully not more than 1 because these are some of my fav people to be town with but I’m getting an inkling it’s maybe 2 just by rng and stuff

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

Interesting

vote: waza

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@nebjiamn can u walk me what was going through your brain when you made that vote?

Vote: Unvote

Quote:

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Originally Posted by waza

How many in rask ladd taffy dya?

Hopefully not more than 1 because these are some of my fav people to be town with but I’m getting an inkling it’s maybe 2 just by rng and stuff

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

Interesting

vote: waza

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by waza

Meh

Seems like a whole lot of setup and aversion of solving today (ie giving free passes to a cluster of pr claims I’m hesitant on)

And the payoff is close to nothing lol

I’d feel better about it if it didn’t increase the already high odds of Arctic dieing in the night

Meh, probs just gonna vanity today since I been busier than anticipated or just be arctics double voter

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i mean it confirms arctic as his role, visor gets a crack at a track, and taffy is mildly forced to townside as any alignment

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dyachei

im kind of getting arctic v vibes from his posts. there's something...nonchalant about them? and that fits with the pr claim

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Why does nonchalance fit with pr claim for you

I believe the arctic claim, just more trying to like understand this particular line of thought because I kinda tilted my head at it when I read it

Quote:

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Originally Posted by didistetter

if all the claims are legit:

we just have taffy not light up or like.. douse tbd , have arctic redirect visitors to visor onto himself, and visor cant die or be RBd and guaranteed gets a track off.

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Seems correct

Quote:

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Originally Posted by didistetter

@nebjiamn can u walk me what was going through your brain when you made that vote?

Vote: Unvote

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i sort of remember thinking the way waza was picking and choosing who his "how many wolves in:" post was odd because he qualified it with how they were some of his fav people to town with and they were 0 posters at the time, i think? but that list of 0 posters also included sunbae, arctic, and maybe a few others, and I know he loves playing with sunbae (and i contemplated making a joke about how he hates arcy)

it was also partially a rejection of your townread to announce my concerns therestemming from what i just talkedabout. i didn't really see how you were towning him and NOT towning me when a lot of his posting felt off.

there was probably more to it than that but I can't remember entirely

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lissa

Why does nonchalance fit with pr claim for you

I believe the arctic claim, just more trying to like understand this particular line of thought because I kinda tilted my head at it when I read it

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it just felt like he wasnt really all that worried about being elimmed

Fwiw those names weren’t completely arbitrary or based on who I liked

It was based on people who I thought/expected to have posted by now + taffy

@stett

So we get Arctic to confirm his role.. at the cost of dieing? Lol I already believe him so I don’t need confirmation there

Taffy is forced to townside regardless, if they douse Arctic I’m just parking on them every day

Track even if I trd whoever they have it is very unlikely to find anything when wolves know it exists, which is one of my primary issues with mantis claim and soft. They really didn’t need to crumb and soft they gave a track, a simple soft at being inventor woulda been enough

And in the world I’m entertaining where visor could be a wolf then that track is never gonna give us anything lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dyachei

it just felt like he wasnt really all that worried about being elimmed

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I guess there's like two angles of mindset being a pr in ~danger at eod, that of not being in danger because you know you have the claim and that of not wanting to make the claim

Really mostly you get a mix depending on situation, personality, strength of pr etc, I'm waxing a bit theoretical, not really sure what I thought I was gonna get out of that question tbh

But anyway, fair enough

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arctic

I don't like maple's eod here at all ftr

prob my main take away from this

Giving him an excuse to vote me here probably but it's okay lol

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Hmmm

This isn’t something a pr should say

Vote:arctic

Quote:

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Originally Posted by waza

Hmmm

This isn’t something a pr should say

Vote:arctic

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But yeah idk In its own context I that post from Arctic to be towny because of the lack of self preservation mindset that’s expressed in the post which reads as a villa saying what they want/believe in at eod because that’s their truth

In the context of them being a pr it is harder for me to justify why he would say that

I voted a pr claim
Yesterday so I’m more than open to doing the same today

Ironically enough it’s taffy’s claims who seems the most legit to me and the most verifiable because unless maple can give out bombs then I don’t see which other possible claim that rasks role is meant to counter from the pr claims so far

Probs one in the pr mess of arctic maple visor

Don’t think Arctic and maple work together because both wolves claiming pr like this means neither can really endgame and I’m assuming it’s 3 wolves and not 4 here

Maple and visor could in theory work, but Arctic and visor probs doesn’t work. So if maple and visor has a villa in them the last is probs somewhere in ender or ladd

Ill be around and do a re read of at least eod later today (in like 12 hours)

Ngl artic claim seems the weirdest to me cause wasting 2 pr slots on an odd/even redirector seems silly setup wise. Like redirector dying doesnt cause enough variance to split it in odd/even

I dunno

Also worth noting that in one of these past games hosted from gemma ender almost won as a wolf by giving visor a vest n1. Kinda funny visor got an item again lmao

Bbl

I LITERALLY HAD TO STOP EATING DINNER CAUSE I REMEMBERED THIS????

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arctic

wdym there's a decent chance sunbae didn't die to wolves

you think town got a save on someone or the wolf kill got stopped, and on top of that town has KP which they used specifically on sunbae who claimed PR???

idk where i'm going with this but it seems silly to think wolves didn't kill him because that requires town did

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

read his role again

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arctic

i may be stupid

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IS THIS NOT OUTING? HE HAD NO IDEA OF THE IMPLCATIONS OF SUNBAE'S ROLE AND HOW IT WORKS BUT NOW HES CLAIMING THE EVEN NIGHT COUNTERPATR????????

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

I LITERALLY HAD TO STOP EATING DINNER CAUSE I REMEMBERED THIS????









IS THIS NOT OUTING? HE HAD NO IDEA OF THE IMPLCATIONS OF SUNBAE'S ROLE AND HOW IT WORKS BUT NOW HES CLAIMING THE EVEN NIGHT COUNTERPATR????????

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wait yeah

that's actually such a good catch lol

@Arctic how is that not outing? you didnt read your own role or what xD

lol

ngl if i saved a maf to kill a maf that's based as f

time to bark for us arcy :3

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

I LITERALLY HAD TO STOP EATING DINNER CAUSE I REMEMBERED THIS????









IS THIS NOT OUTING? HE HAD NO IDEA OF THE IMPLCATIONS OF SUNBAE'S ROLE AND HOW IT WORKS BUT NOW HES CLAIMING THE EVEN NIGHT COUNTERPATR????????

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yeah wait a minute lol that makes zero sense if he's that role what

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arctic

I thought your read was based on one thing that you just didn't want to let go? I don't really hate the things that you're actually calling out here like, on principle, but I'm more confused about why you now have this whole case on the rest of my behaviour when it was just one thing you didn't like

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It's called "24 hours of night phase where my brain is still ticking over about the game to actually elaborate further on my vague feelings and reread things I care about"

Because I don't rest during night phases for dumb reasons.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arctic

Since you have doused me, yeah, I am a PR. Specifically I'm the even night version of Sunbae's role. I was not informed about any anticlaim. So I will in fact self-resolve and you should not kill me. Especially because it does not get us a ML

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Then why'd I have to explain what Benneh was talking about to you?

(I see Benneh has already pointed this out and I think I shall set them upon my townpile permanently now instead of double checking myself.)

Anyway

Vote: Arctic

You may now townclear me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

wolf inventor amirite

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Unironically kinda think this.

drinking a nice fruity drink and thumbing through arctic's posts

I think him being a wolf looks like, really really good for visor lol

his push on him was really uncharitable and flat out misinterpretive in a way I don't think w/w pushes look very often

I don't really think he's a wolf with maple but it's not AS strong

he's not a wolf with taffy but I don't really think taffy was ever a wolf anyway at this point. frankly his posting kinda gives me the sense that he had some kind of mechanical reason to think taffy was a neutral after her claim, or at least otherwise thought so for some reason

trying to claim the sunbae counterpart when he obviously had NO IDEA what the role even did is crazy, I guess he needed a reason to not have taffy ignite him, and he didn't think something else would fit in the setup? should've isoed himself first wowee

reading his most recent posts it feels obvious he felt backed into a corner and like he had no other option but to claim and was trying desperately to leverage it into living

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dyachei

it just felt like he wasnt really all that worried about being elimmed

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I think this specific way of talking about/focus on uhh words focus on focus on the like posting style around the claim in this specific way idk I'm failing at making this coherent

but like

847 claim from arctic

other people are talking about the mechanical elements of the claim, focused on, other people are responding to the claim

not a huge samplesize of people

but

anyway

I want to say the focus on his behavior in the way dya has done it post claim tends to be like a TMI thing, on average, for wolves towards wolf claims. there's an underlying reason to not weight the claim itself, a not knowing how hard the claim will be weighted and overcompensating, when the villager instinct with something like that is a bit more towards seeing the claim and either taking it at face value, or evaluating focused on it. on average obviously. but on some level, I kinda think that dya was trying to shore up reasons that arctic was town, because they knew the claim could have problems by virtue of not actually fitting in the setup, they knew it wasn't real so they were focused on the behavior around his claim in a different way than villagers were processing his claim.

Considering Arctic is already doused I suppose we can always just ignite him and use the vote today

I get that Arctic being a wolf looks good for visor and ender and heck maybe even ladd so tbh I don’t even know where to go, it looks pretty bad for me so you should probs just resolve me today and douse Arctic at night and just reassess tmrw

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arctic

wdym there's a decent chance sunbae didn't die to wolves

you think town got a save on someone or the wolf kill got stopped, and on top of that town has KP which they used specifically on sunbae who claimed PR???

idk where i'm going with this but it seems silly to think wolves didn't kill him because that requires town did

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

read his role again

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arctic

i may be stupid

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by waza

Considering Arctic is already doused I suppose we can always just ignite him and use the vote today

I get that Arctic being a wolf looks good for visor and ender and heck maybe even ladd so tbh I don’t even know where to go, it looks pretty bad for me so you should probs just resolve me today and douse Arctic at night and just reassess tmrw

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nah

i am very very strong on we just kill arctic with the vote and not leave it up to taffy/any potential roleblocks/stops etc. and i don't think you need to die. don't be defeatist, we got a pretty sick catch
@Lissa i like your posting rn a lot and agree

vote: arctic

my instinct is that pzelda's handling of me is like. REALLY villagery

I want to say the era in which he was playing wasn't overlapped too much with the time when I was really getting ita1d2 shot more often; and was still pretty standardly high posting and hard to kill. Idk if the timeline actually fits this? ten years blur together a bit. I definitely feel like I remember him playing more like 5-6 years ago than 2-3. I guess like this is all sort of asides though for the fact that I believe his way of handling me and attempts to read my alignment. I'm a little confused I'm having a hard time finding a lot of the posts I was thinking of.

Actually I'm pretty sure I was actually thinking of ender's posts. Oooops

I mean dude's still really villagery. His and ender's posting is remniscient of ender in a lot of ways; probably should be townreading ender harder given that lol. I don't know how much of it is stylistic for either of them really. But they're very off on their own no team doing their own thing kind of feeling the type of people where in a mash I spend a couple days defending them and then doubt myself against consensus and then give up and they flip villager.

Pzelda's just, he's a little out of touch, not really out of touch exactly, he doesn't feel like he's trying to adapt how he's viewing things to the thread at all ever. This guy is just town. I guess ender also is town? Ender's handling of me is really town. I wish I knew how he looked when he wolfed that's my hangup. I don't get QUITE as strong a sense of the like more deeply layered threads of what leads him to be out on his own doing his own thing but it's pretty there still. But he feels like not just the villager I gave up defending incorrectly who got ITAed but also the occasional guy I HARD defended for exactly the same reason but whiffed because that's just how they play the game. idk this guy is also just town though yolo

Arctic ladd dya ez

Surely not that ez but it's a fun thought

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

nah

i am very very strong on we just kill arctic with the vote and not leave it up to taffy/any potential roleblocks/stops etc. and i don't think you need to die. don't be defeatist, we got a pretty sick catch
@Lissa i like your posting rn a lot and agree

vote: arctic

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I think this is correct, yeah. I feel like 1. it seems super likely that wolves have some sort of general tampering given what we know and can estimate about the setup and mechanical situation 2. I think Taffy has a LOT of neutral equity and with a dead wolf D1, her motivation to kill another wolf is very low if so, so even if wolves don't interfere there's a lot of good reason for her to just kinda like. Fake being tampered? And then we have to deal with this tomorrow and it'll suck up discussion and suck the air out of the room and yeah we should just kill arctic today

Vote: arctic

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lissa

my instinct is that pzelda's handling of me is like. REALLY villagery

I want to say the era in which he was playing wasn't overlapped too much with the time when I was really getting ita1d2 shot more often; and was still pretty standardly high posting and hard to kill. Idk if the timeline actually fits this? ten years blur together a bit. I definitely feel like I remember him playing more like 5-6 years ago than 2-3. I guess like this is all sort of asides though for the fact that I believe his way of handling me and attempts to read my alignment. I'm a little confused I'm having a hard time finding a lot of the posts I was thinking of.

Actually I'm pretty sure I was actually thinking of ender's posts. Oooops

I mean dude's still really villagery. His and ender's posting is remniscient of ender in a lot of ways; probably should be townreading ender harder given that lol. I don't know how much of it is stylistic for either of them really. But they're very off on their own no team doing their own thing kind of feeling the type of people where in a mash I spend a couple days defending them and then doubt myself against consensus and then give up and they flip villager.

Pzelda's just, he's a little out of touch, not really out of touch exactly, he doesn't feel like he's trying to adapt how he's viewing things to the thread at all ever. This guy is just town. I guess ender also is town? Ender's handling of me is really town. I wish I knew how he looked when he wolfed that's my hangup. I don't get QUITE as strong a sense of the like more deeply layered threads of what leads him to be out on his own doing his own thing but it's pretty there still. But he feels like not just the villager I gave up defending incorrectly who got ITAed but also the occasional guy I HARD defended for exactly the same reason but whiffed because that's just how they play the game. idk this guy is also just town though yolo

Arctic ladd dya ez

Surely not that ez but it's a fun thought

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Once I was a topposter townread player like you.

Then I took a flashwagon to the knee.

I'm still catching up. Arctic reaction to the claim is weird? It feels like overreacting, I noted it, but I don't read into it too much.
The more interesting stuff is benneh opening the game again and Visor trying to open the game and trying to steer away from Maple. There's something he dislikes. I'm not sure if it's that the focus feels too narrow or that he would prefer to open the game and avoid the yeet.

Good morning btw! Still drinking my first coffee.

I'm basically just drinking cherry liqueur with a little of this like. guava nectar and a bit of flavored vodka lol

I think I already drank most of the guava part so it's pretty decently strong atp

Arctic so f in thought taffy was a neut lmao

I kinda don't think waza is a wolf either. Bro staring down arctic who ends up needing to claim today and I don't think it was like exactly super unpredictable that arctic wasn't goin super deep in this game even if w/o taffy stuff he coulda gotten away a bit longer? + zero poster wolf bros and decides to, while NOT BEING ABLE TO POST TO CONVINCE ANYONE and after pushingb the 0 poster all day, just go taffy who's probably not gonna go over let's be real there's not that manyp eople willing to commit to the d1 pr claim elim on d1 right. over both wolves that's just like. idk what's his endgame? would he not do like anything literally anything else

i'll be busy all day tomorrow (audrey is getting her black belt! wooooo!). i'm patting myself on the back for remembering that interaction and making today easier than it was lookin.

having said that, i've compiled a bunch of arctic spew from d1 and early d2 here. i think we should start parsing through it the rest of the day. side note: we don't have to worry about maj as its not enabled in this game til lylo

anyway click thru for ez compilation of spew and lmk ur thoughts, ping me so i can catch up when I have free time. gn all

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Good, you clicked through this spoiler. This isn't actually Asari high command. They're too busy tending to what's left of their planet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

i'll be busy all day tomorrow (audrey is getting her black belt! wooooo!). i'm patting myself on the back for remembering that interaction and making today easier than it was lookin.

having said that, i've compiled a bunch of arctic spew from d1 and early d2 here. i think we should start parsing through it the rest of the day. side note: we don't have to worry about maj as its not enabled in this game til lylo

anyway click thru for ez compilation of spew and lmk ur thoughts, ping me so i can catch up when I have free time. gn all

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Good, you clicked through this spoiler. This isn't actually Asari high command. They're too busy tending to what's left of their planet.

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go audrey pog

sick catch for sure

glad to nkow about maj I wasn't sure I went to check how many votes and I just tossed it out cause I'd only be like three but it was on ym mind

sick spew compilation I'll ahve to read through it

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I LOOKED I KNOW BUT I WONT TELL

also i already read his spew!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dyachei

annika prob v i think. Stett def v. idk on taffy and I suck at reading arctic so I try not to

I do think his reads list is at odds with a lot of the thread though

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ok well ik im not maf

and this seems good postish from dya

ender and visor both town off arctic

so now im confused again lol

im skimming thread for mentions and pzelda also had a fair amount of shade on arccy


ender clearly unpaired

think his treatment of annika was unpaired

so what like lissa/me/ladd/maple poe tbh?

arso + redirect + inventor seems plausible with only one redirect

Vote: Arctic

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

(if something goes south and arccy is town pr ben might be wolf but im not worrying about that)

Everything lissa and benneh have said sounds good to me

Even if artic comes in and tries to explain, i honestly dont think having an even redirector makes sense. Why would u need to split up a redirector?

Ender/visor/benneh/lissa/annika/stett/zelda/waza all seem like villagers . Maple/taffy should be real.


So i guess that leaves dya as last wolf and sunbae is just that sick and was n1ed

There is prolly spew to be found in eod wrt artic when he got wagoned but i dunno if i care to read back today given it d probabky just clear people who are already clear

Visor should track me/dya imo.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by didistetter

ok well ik im not maf

and this seems good postish from dya

ender and visor both town off arctic

so now im confused again lol

im skimming thread for mentions and pzelda also had a fair amount of shade on arccy


ender clearly unpaired

think his treatment of annika was unpaired

so what like lissa/me/ladd/maple poe tbh?

arso + redirect + inventor seems plausible with only one redirect

Vote: Arctic

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

(if something goes south and arccy is town pr ben might be wolf but im not worrying about that)

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Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

would be a SICK handling if so lol

talk to me more ab dya i don't really feel a lot of things or much of any from that post at all

not a super meaningful post imo and not a particularly villagery one

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ladd

Everything lissa and benneh have said sounds good to me

Even if artic comes in and tries to explain, i honestly dont think having an even redirector makes sense. Why would u need to split up a redirector?

Ender/visor/benneh/lissa/annika/stett/zelda/waza all seem like villagers . Maple/taffy should be real.


So i guess that leaves dya as last wolf and sunbae is just that sick and was n1ed

There is prolly spew to be found in eod wrt artic when he got wagoned but i dunno if i care to read back today given it d probabky just clear people who are already clear

Visor should track me/dya imo.

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yeah i kinda agree lol the idea of that role being split in two is SUPER jank in retrospect

I already read arctic spew visor v maple v taffy not-w-probably-neut ez

Ok, that claim seemed to be weird tbh. Kuddos to Ladd pointing it out first.
The worst thing about splitting a redirector would be that you would have 4 claims for town to clear. I wouldn't mind discussing Maple's claim a little further.

I'm out of time now, but I'll be back for the eod and I want to discuss more than claims.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pzelda

Ok, that claim seemed to be weird tbh. Kuddos to Ladd pointing it out first.
The worst thing about splitting a redirector would be that you would have 4 claims for town to clear. I wouldn't mind discussing Maple's claim a little further.

I'm out of time now, but I'll be back for the eod and I want to discuss more than claims.

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I deserve no kudos this game lmao but thx


Ill pop back in from phone to check every now and then but as the day just got easier ill prolly just go enjoy my saturday

Adieu

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pzelda

Ok, that claim seemed to be weird tbh. Kuddos to Ladd pointing it out first.
The worst thing about splitting a redirector would be that you would have 4 claims for town to clear. I wouldn't mind discussing Maple's claim a little further.

I'm out of time now, but I'll be back for the eod and I want to discuss more than claims.

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ben pointed out the weirdness

and it kinda goes beyond weirdness, there is just no way that arctic is ever the role he has claimed lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lissa

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

would be a SICK handling if so lol

talk to me more ab dya i don't really feel a lot of things or much of any from that post at all

not a super meaningful post imo and not a particularly villagery one

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ngl im way too reliant on retro vcs b/c i've been trying to figure out how much sus/votes arctic had at the time.

off memory he was never like.. in real danger which is why dya kinda just ignoring it and not caring doesnt feel super partnered to me

but yah its not strong

thumbing through annika's iso, she's so obviously town I don't know why I even bothered

wazaaaa is a poster. honestly his early d1 kind of makes my skin crawl in a wolfy-weirdness sense. not even really that it's just like a certain kind of weirdness and skin crawliness.

bro the f ing bussing rask posts freak me out LMAO

his handling of rask is so WEIRD I forgot how friggin weird it was

his read on visor is o k it feels decentish

pzelda is so towny lmao holy

wazas post about ender ~ok

bro these BUSSING RASK JOKES WHY

why hve you done this to me

i think waza'r ead on sunbae where he called sunbae one of his best guesses for a wolf for the thing about somehting sunbae did being one of those thimgs where sunbae gets cleared for something where he doesn't know what's happening

i don't like

i mean i can get thinking that POST was weird

but the read def feels like weird and maybe wrong-in-the-off-sense-not-the-literal-sense

i d k

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Originally Posted by waza

My Eod is simple lol

I signaled twice to get on rask and people didn’t listen

Then Arctic wagon gained traction which I hated because between my last post and when I came back for eod Arctic was one of my main trs, by the time I voted it looked like it was going to be between taffy or Arctic so I pressed for Arctic. Maintained my vote there because I figured if me Arctic and ladd are all there with Annika and stett shielding Arctic he shouldn’t die

Not super convinced at the time that taffy had to be a hit, could go either way, I liked some of taffy’s responses to ladd but I also agree with Arctic that the way taffy claimed felt fake lol

50 post cap is a big nerf so yeah idk maybe I just ghost the entire day until Eod

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I'm not sure if I'm too drunk to process this or if it just makes no sense. I mean it's just the pressed for arctic thing that gets me I think it's just like a typo or weird wording probably never mind? based on therest of the context

ultimately I don't really think he ever plays eod like he did as a wolf, what on earth does he think his endgame is doing that as a wolf with rask and arctic lol. like cmon. multiple wolves and he thinks it's a good idea to just uselessly be on neither when he can't do anything real to sway the thread. dude is smarter than that

Quote:

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Originally Posted by didistetter

ngl im way too reliant on retro vcs b/c i've been trying to figure out how much sus/votes arctic had at the time.

off memory he was never like.. in real danger which is why dya kinda just ignoring it and not caring doesnt feel super partnered to me

but yah its not strong

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i don't reaaally think arctic was ever going over, as someone who thought he was a wolf at the time but admittedly wasn't super comfortable about it i felt like there was a lot of people who were not down

it didn't feel like he quite had the traction

idt that dya post means much of anything

i don't think your conclusion about them not caring is quite the right one idk

Oh just remembered if Arctic does flip red then visors track actually becomes useful lol

Assuming there’s no ninja in the setup, in which case I’d like the track to be used on me if Arctic is red, my eod d1 really is policy worthy snd even if I can manage to outlive dya or ladd who are probs the only two other people that may get voted before me I don’t really think dya is a wolf and on top of the stuff I already said about ladd I don’t think the way him and Arctic spoke to each other today felt w/w. I’m not ride or die with any of these reads because tbh it’s hard to think who else could be a wolf aside for maple but yeah I really would appreciate if the tracker was used on me tonight (as long as ur not paranoid im a ninja or something )

Yea i re read super quickly dya iso and while overall i can see, i still dont really think they make that post to sjnbae as wolf? Dunno maybe i am giving it too much weight

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ladd

Yea i re read super quickly dya iso and while overall i can see, i still dont really think they make that post to sjnbae as wolf? Dunno maybe i am giving it too much weight

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I definitely think you are, they could 100% make that post to sunbae as w

I don't think it's like, wrong to have found it villagery at all but I think it's pretty minor especially atp

Both lissas and Ben’s excitement is believable/towny, Ben for finding the inconsistency and Lissas follow up. Her reaction to my claims of bussing rask seem hard to fake as wolf so I’ll take that

Btw @Lissa when I say pressed for Arctic I meant self pres voted on behalf of arctic


Annika and stett are reads i don’t feel the need to revisit So yeah still town

I’m glad my initial take on ender might have been right lol

Idk if Arctic goes that much out of his way to bring visor into the poe if they’re partners d1 when visor was being trd, he made quite an effort to convince me out of townreading visor

Zelda I stopped trying to solve after their first two posts and just kinda assume if they’re a wolf they’d have been caught by now due to rust

I think I probs spoke about everyone else who is left anyways, so yeah idk lol on second thought maybe it’s better to use the tracker on ladd or dya instead since I don’t trust I’ll be a useful clear tmrw anyways but for poe reasons I’d still be happy to have it on me

Quote:

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Originally Posted by waza

Both lissas and Ben’s excitement is believable/towny, Ben for finding the inconsistency and Lissas follow up. Her reaction to my claims of bussing rask seem hard to fake as wolf so I’ll take that

Btw @Lissa when I say pressed for Arctic I meant self pres voted on behalf of arctic


Annika and stett are reads i don’t feel the need to revisit So yeah still town

I’m glad my initial take on ender might have been right lol

Idk if Arctic goes that much out of his way to bring visor into the poe if they’re partners d1 when visor was being trd, he made quite an effort to convince me out of townreading visor

Zelda I stopped trying to solve after their first two posts and just kinda assume if they’re a wolf they’d have been caught by now due to rust

I think I probs spoke about everyone else who is left anyways, so yeah idk lol on second thought maybe it’s better to use the tracker on ladd or dya instead since I don’t trust I’ll be a useful clear tmrw anyways but for poe reasons I’d still be happy to have it on me

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oh that makes a lot more sense ngl i was SO CONFUSED i figured either somehting was worded really jank or i misread

that explains it much more sensically ok

visor is like SUPER spewed town by arctic imo

the specific way arctic pushed him, it's like. it's SUCH an ingenerous interpretation of visor'sposting to the point of being incorrect/extremely reductive

Quote:

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Originally Posted by waza

Oh just remembered if Arctic does flip red then visors track actually becomes useful lol

Assuming there’s no ninja in the setup, in which case I’d like the track to be used on me if Arctic is red, my eod d1 really is policy worthy snd even if I can manage to outlive dya or ladd who are probs the only two other people that may get voted before me I don’t really think dya is a wolf and on top of the stuff I already said about ladd I don’t think the way him and Arctic spoke to each other today felt w/w. I’m not ride or die with any of these reads because tbh it’s hard to think who else could be a wolf aside for maple but yeah I really would appreciate if the tracker was used on me tonight (as long as ur not paranoid im a ninja or something )

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Tbh that feels like a waste. You probably wouldn't write that if you were w/w with Arctic. So, if he's a wolf and you're one too, you're killing Visor. Or you just plan to throw. In light of this comment I find it less likely for you to be affiliated with Arctic and if wolf aware of the track being real and therefore you would have a mean to avoid being tracked (like not killing yourself or blocking Visor).

I feel a little bit lazy, but I don't think there's a reason to revisit most of my reads.

Benneh/waza/stett/Dya/Lissa/Taffy - town

Visor - very likely town. I think he might be someone to talk about some more, but if Arctic flips red, he's basically cleared. That early push from Arctic wasn't bussing IMHO. And the track is real in that case.
Ladd - it just feels like the guy's town
Annika - multiple players have her locked town. I don't quite see the reason, but I'm comfortable rolling with the consensus.
Maple - I'm locking him villa if Arctic flips red.

Ender - Ok, I think town, but I also think I should keep an eye on him. I wouldn't clear him for pushing Arctic and I would check how Arctic pushed back.

Vote: Arctic

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pzelda

Tbh that feels like a waste. You probably wouldn't write that if you were w/w with Arctic. So, if he's a wolf and you're one too, you're killing Visor. Or you just plan to throw. In light of this comment I find it less likely for you to be affiliated with Arctic and if wolf aware of the track being real and therefore you would have a mean to avoid being tracked (like not killing yourself or blocking Visor).

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Oh yeah lmao I forgot the wolf can simply just kill visor tonight if he’s v

Errr yeah idk then, this is why I wished the invention wasn’t outed and think it’s wolfy to out it in mantis claim but also both wolves claiming pr at the same time is kinda whack to be the case

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EnderWiggin

I buy Taffy's claim pretty well rn.

I think my POE is pretty much Maple/Lissa/Ladd/(Arctic)

I've put my Arctic stuff out there, if no one agrees with me I'll shrug and drop it for now because I don't have any way I can state it more persuasively and if everyone is saying I'm wrong then maybe I'm wrong.

Ladd gets added because I don't really feel like he's progressed in a way that makes me think town, but it's like ~not a strong read.

I still think Maple's narrow focus/small footprint EOD is very wolfy. I will happily champion this.

Lissa is just someone I think has been wolfy over-all. But probably is in the Arctic treatment in terms of at least two or three people have said what I was suspecting is just normal Lissa. That being said I don't think their EOD was great and they haven't done anything I find super towny so they can exist in a POE.

If I'm misclearing anyone atm it's probably in Dya (Because my ability to read them has always been kinda shoddy. I think I'm improving in the last 2/3 games we've played but wouldn't shock me if I've read em wrong.) or Waza (Because the snow leopard is tricksy and speaks sparkly words. I've definitely been wooed by them before so I tend to keep some tinfoil in the closet.)

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The thing about not pushing his case here triggers me a little.
Btw let's just work on an assumption Arctic flips red.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EnderWiggin

@didistetter
First post - This is the read on me that I've been harping on about. Makes a shade-centric observation. "Idk if this is uncharitable" and then basically suggests I'm posting differently "flavoured" to when he was wolf and he + DZ voted me out when I was town.

Second post - I call him out on it and he then admits he "Knew it was uncharitable" and intentionally tries to point out how he wasn't really pushing it as if that's a defense. (Which 1. puts lie to the "Idk if it is uncharitable" line and 2. if you're shading someone usually the point is that you're trying to make OTHER PEOPLE be the direct attackers while you have just pushed it subtly in the background.)

Third post - Shading Visor after Visor is generally townread (Visor has in recent times been potential miselim bait due to not caring about putting effort in, something I vibe with strongly.) and also backing down off me after I have shown my teeth.

Fourth post - This one feels like trying to poke another to a conclusion that he's annoyed they haven't reached but this one is ~meh. I'm mostly including it because he makes a deal about someone's alignment with his reads. Which is relevant for the follow up:

Fifth Post - Because when Dya pointed out how Arctic is sussing her despite having generally aligned reads his reaction is to:
Sixth Post - ONCE AGAIN the person he has poe'd/shaded/sussed comes back at him for how odd it is or how uncharitable it is and the response is to placate. "I don't really sus you tbh" instead of the response to me, but I felt like it was an echo.

Seventh Post - Now instead of "Feeling like there's a difference between my shitposting last time" he's now backed down to "I just am saying I could see myself shrug yeeting you cause idk any way to read you." The backpeddling to seem reasonable is the real reason I sunk my teeth into this and don't want to let go.

Eighth Post - "It's not just that I disagree with your reads"
Ninth Post - "i think other players have been townier and i disagree with his reads"
(Also I have always hated "I disagree with your reads" as a wolfread because how often do two town get different reads on things? Very often. Even amongst good players.)

This is mostly included because I feel like it fits with the placation to the person he's sussing while just straight up shading them to others with buzzword statements.

As for his EOD, It basically is mainly the following:
1. A weird request for Taffy to find wolves or die
2. A immediate bad reaction to the claim
3. "I don't believe taffy at all but 2 of my biggest suspects are voting her so idk"
4. Waffles around then puts down "I'd vote any of taffy/maple/ladd/rask" (Note: He does not vote Rask)
5. Has been waffling around on the claim but as soon as he starts getting votes instantly goes nuclear on trying to revitalise it against Taffy

I don't think that EOD is particularly wolfy tbh. It's kinda midline for me. The Rask note is like hindsight not ~great but also not that damning either.

My point is idk why that seems to be universally townread.

But again, it's very possible I'm miles deep in the tunnel and not seeing things clearly.

I definitely can get that way.

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@ladd what do you think about this case as possibly w/w? Also, ender basically dropping any effort to push it.

It's not a good case. Ender just went with w Arctic and built it around it. Then there's that part about the eod not being terrible. Ender admits that the case was made more because Arctic got universally townread at that point. So, it could be an instance of distancing IMHO.

Arctic/Ender feels too easy tho

For some reason I asked Ladd instead of @waza who is present. What's your opinion on Arctic/Ender pairing?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pzelda

The thing about not pushing his case here triggers me a little.
Btw let's just work on an assumption Arctic flips red.

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I tried to get him wagoned at EOD.

Lol.

Capage.

Reread D1.

Please.

Also I didn't drop off pushing that case. I said if everyone didn't agree then I'd shelve it because 90% of thread was saying Arctic was town for EOD (Which I vocally didn't agree with.)

Like m8.

Also I take personal offense at it being called "not a good case" when I literally caught a wolf everyone was going to handwave as town but that's neither here nor there.