Gemma's Favorite Music Mafia

[ladd]

@ladd what do you make of the way lissa has posted wrt your slot, and her amenability to me suggesting a eod flashwagon on afk ladd for no reason other than someone claiming pr and dipping?

im kinda struggling with that dynamic, especially considering she +1d me telling arctic to not lim taffy, but seemed willing to flash an afk who frankly had no business being a d1 wagon

Dont think i didnt see you and benneh (and maybe waza? Idr) voting me lol nice try


I dont make much of it honestly, it lines up with what her reads were at the time i think. She never really v read me, didnt want to vote taffy cause pr claim, rask cause 0 posts

I'll probably sheep sunbae read there for now, and everyone who knows her better than me thinks she is a villager so am cool with it. They are like just outiside immediate PoE for me tho

If taffy/rask are both w she had a super rough EoD reads wise but given the context i am not even sure thats wolfy

[Lissa]

Honestly the game just seems villagery enough in general that I think Taffy is just a wolf and probably some kind of kp. Even though I'm happy with my poe no one in it really feels wolfy so it's kinda hard for me to feel good about calling 2 non-Taffy players wolves

This line of reasoning was correct on Rask (though it's not really how I felt about the game yesterday which is why I didn't consider going there) so it must be correct here :D

I would be enthused to be wrong about this because the game might not be boring then! Finding a lone wolf in these games when 2 wolves die immediately is either incredibly easy, which is boring, or absolute hell because they've just been bussing like crazy. I find that it's usually easier to solve the game if at least 2 survive until later because then there's at least some incentive to not bus which can be read into, but if both wolves are poe'd immediately then it's hard to figure out who it is

yeah I've kind of come around to that; want to see what she has to say today/see her claim fully, but

lmao sunbae was towny, had a towny eod, and claimed PR for some reason.

taffy had the way sketcher claim.
@Lissa arctic is pretty obviously pr who went after taffy so strongly b/c of him not liking the anticlaim stuff.. So i don't love your direction in 720

what do you tr about maple? what are your thoughts on ender and ladd?

Wait what

I didn't catch that at all, I mean multiple other people also still tried to kill taffy after the claim? I also really wish you didn't say that because I really do not think it was that obvious, so I hope you're wrong.

mostly I think maple is playing super weird if she is a wolf, I really don't think this is how she would be playing this game at all if she had randed wolf. a wolf maple looks at the game and has a 0 posting partner d1 in a REALLY villagery thread full of really strong players, she can surely tell she's gonna have to go deep this game. and just going rask if it turned out there wasn't really a better option at eod was clearly on several people's minds some way or another, I think, at least as some kind of faint consideration. I'm pretty confident she'd have picked up on that, and she both doesn't bus or try to at all look good and ALSO doesn't try to come up with any kind of real, meaningful alternative and just keeps tunneling annika?? idk it's really hard for me to see her choosing not to either try to capitalize on or avoid what happened and also for her to on top of that continue a tunnel that like everyone hates for no productive purpose

like if manti was a wolf she could've focused on pushing taffy or arctic (if they are villagers. if either is a wolf it's even weirder that she didn't try to get any kind of credit out of any of it, like ?????) or ladd (again if he is a villa but like... I mean these options aren't ALL gonna be wolves lol) or if there was another wolf also in danger it's MORE weird that she didn't actually either try to find a real alternative or take a side.

I just don't really see a wolf agenda in her posting at all. if she was a wolf she would be playing wildly different imo. there's a few different ways that could go depending on both her team and the choices she decides to make but none of them look anything like this.

also she would like, reaaallly want to win as a wolf in this playerlist lol

and her posting just isn't really advancing that, she's kinda off on her own adventure tryharding but in a way it's hard to imagine she thinks meaningfully advances her wincon as a wolf

I've actually talked myself into this read being stronger than it was before I typed this out. Her whole play this game is just completely at odds with how I imagine her approaching this game as a wolf.


ladd just kinda feels a bit idk, off. his posts just feel like they are missing something? he doesn't pop out as having done anything strongly villagery. not a read I feel super great about. shouldn't be a wolf with taffy though.

ender is a bit complicated. part of me just thinks they don't seem like they're on a team/in a wolfchat at all? certain kind of almost diconnected/off on their own. I don't see an agenda, they're just kind of meandering around thinking about things. but it's in such a way I kinda feel like I might be misreading a style thing? idk, I almost wrote them with a question mark in that second town tier.

[Lissa]

@ladd what do you make of the way lissa has posted wrt your slot, and her amenability to me suggesting a eod flashwagon on afk ladd for no reason other than someone claiming pr and dipping?

im kinda struggling with that dynamic, especially considering she +1d me telling arctic to not lim taffy, but seemed willing to flash an afk who frankly had no business being a d1 wagon

I mean I wasn't village reading him and had a ton of village reads? And one of my not-village reads had claimed PR and I think it's never correct to go there on d1 after that.

Why are you acting like it's unreasonable to have considered/been interested in wagoning him when you were (as you acknowledged) literally suggesting it?

[EnderWiggin]

What do you mean when you say "specifically" for them?

I am also egoistically curious why you villaread me at the start of the game and whether that read has evolved since

I don't mean anything specifically for Arctic. That was just like "I don't think it was specifically towny" as a way of emphasising I didn't find it towny. Probably bad word choice.

[EnderWiggin]

Oh and villaread was mostly around how I find you pick a target to bite into as wolf and didn't see that. Also just liked your posts.

Not really evolved and I probably need to review it now but haven't.

[Lissa]

Dont think i didnt see you and benneh (and maybe waza? Idr) voting me lol nice try


I dont make much of it honestly, it lines up with what her reads were at the time i think. She never really v read me, didnt want to vote taffy cause pr claim, rask cause 0 posts

I'll probably sheep sunbae read there for now, and everyone who knows her better than me thinks she is a villager so am cool with it. They are like just outiside immediate PoE for me tho

If taffy/rask are both w she had a super rough EoD reads wise but given the context i am not even sure thats wolfy

I will feel a bit silly if that turns out to be the case for sure

But not that silly, one was literally a 0 poster and I just think it's strictly incorrect to kill the claim there so shrug

[pzelda]

Arctic is on a roll tbh. They def have a different style more focused on finding wolves, but I can see them as a villa now (I tr them). That also makes me wanna pay more attention to Visor.
Annika, I'm not 100% about their eod looking so good. I think they kind of ended on Rask after running out of options. Their only other option was Maple and he was pushing back. Also, the Rask wagon got traction, Rask was afk and so on. I guess I'm missing a wee bit what Benneh liked about their eod. I might change my mind after rereading.
I actually kind of like Maple during the eod. I can't elaborate, because I didn't keep notes.

Ladd and Taffy are players to talk about rn IMHO.
I quite liked Taffy after sitting in the thread with them, but I also disliked that claim a little bit. I like the way they articulate their reads and I felt I could follow how they arrived at their conclusions. There are things to check again. Who was pushing them and why they claimed in the end.
Ladd is a weird one. I quite like his posts overall, but he's a little bit under the radar instead of trying to lead or at least inspire village. Yesterday I thought he could had ramded a pro and that he was holding back to avoid N1 kill. Today, I'm not so sure so far. Technically, there's not a whole lot wrong about his posts today, but they mostly reacted to other players instead of for example pushing on their own.

Ender is also someone to throw in the Poe.
Waza - I don't want to consider them just for moving their vote. I guess I can wait a little a watch what their game today looks like. So far waza defender their eod move. I want to see where they are at.

[pzelda]

Benneh is implying that Sunbae anticipated who was targetted and redirected onto himself. Therefore wolves were the ones that killed him but Sunbae was not the N1 therefore wolves weren't trying to silence sunbae

Ender writing this kinda makes me thing he's just a villa.

[ladd]

Not gonna quote the full post cause i am on phone but manti can tryhard as a wolf and they can slank, assuming they would try hard or push an agenda is wrong iyam

I have seen them troll eods as a wolf and i dont really think they were in a position to push a mislunch and neither to grab credit by voting rask (tho its arfuable how much credit there even is to grab voting a 0 poster eheh)

[ladd]

Oh and villaread was mostly around how I find you pick a target to bite into as wolf and didn't see that. Also just liked your posts.

Not really evolved and I probably need to review it now but haven't.

Fair enuf on both



@Lissa ya i dont think there is anything wrong in not wanting to lunch taffy or rask to be clear

[didistetter]

Why are you acting like it's unreasonable to have considered/been interested in wagoning him when you were (as you acknowledged) literally suggesting it?

don't think it's unreasonable. But also i wasn't actually interested in killing him eod. Ack your thoughts on maple. That's kinda where i'm at with her too. Her play doesn't really... seem conducive to winning as a wolf? espec with an afk teammate. If taffy is a wolf that probs just means wolves weren't in a great spot regardless, but in that world I'm assuming the third would be highest investment given the bother to fakeclaim.

Dunno.

I'm having a bit of a hard time landing on a team of two that feels ~right~ rn

---

@EnderWiggin could you talk me through what about arctic you don't like?

[pzelda]

why?

I think what made me post this was the part about Lissa. It just felt like a good evaluation.

[pzelda]

RIP Sunbae.

I still disagree that Arctic's EOD was specifically towny of em.

But there's enough people who seem to think that was clearing that it can't be just a wolf sentiment echo chamber and I have to consider strongly that I'm just five miles underneath the ground in my tunnel. So I'm gonna ignore Arctic for a bit and come back to it.

I also want to see what Taffy has to say.

I thought Maple had a terrible EOD. (This is definitely a unique viewpoint I see)

I think Benneh/Annika/Stett/Waza are all very towny from that EOD.

Need to get back to work will think more on this later.

Why was waza's eod towny in your eyes? Benneh and others has been scrutinizing waza for that switch.

[pzelda]

Btw Is there a way to count my posts and to isolate players?

[didistetter]

Ender writing this kinda makes me thing he's just a villa.

@pzelda what about this post is "just villa"

[Arctic]

Ender writing this kinda makes me thing he's just a villa.

...huh? that post isn't alignment indicative, he was just explaining a mech point about sunbae's role and the night kill on benneh's behalf (literally re-iterating what he was implying) so i'm curious why you think this means anything

Not gonna quote the full post cause i am on phone but manti can tryhard as a wolf and they can slank, assuming they would try hard or push an agenda is wrong iyam

I have seen them troll eods as a wolf and i dont really think they were in a position to push a mislunch and neither to grab credit by voting rask (tho its arfuable how much credit there even is to grab voting a 0 poster eheh)

i agree with this

like,, if wolf manti hard pushes a ML there then the wolves in rask/taffy just die shortly afterwards (probably..) and she can easily die right after that. and i don't think voting rask really does much for her either. i think this is easily a game where if you get randed with afk partners you just do some weird shit and lean into this sort of reasoning to get townread. or at least that's what i'd do

i think this point holds more legitimacy concerning the rest of her play in the phase which was originally why i had them as town, and do kinda vibe that way still, but it's not really enough to move the needle for me

[waza]

yeah I have been pretty lazy with this and I am sorry about that but when I'd clear you if taffy flips wolf and I really want to kill her it's kind of a waste of energy to evaluate you now. but I will do it if taffy ends up being town, I am not just gonna be screaming for your head so dw lol. gun to head you just wouldn't really move in my poe, but can't say for sure

why are you obsessed with why everyone is v reading dya? is the post about sunbae supposed to be some esoteric thing that nobody else should be reading into? because i've been locking them town over the same thing, it seems pretty straight forward to me. are you worried some people may be exhibiting TMI on them? otherwise i'm not really sure what the intrigue is here

lol his line of questioning on dya is probs in the top 3 of towbiest things I read today, after your sod post which is verbatim what I planned to post myself later if I wanted to get some townread

[ladd]

don't think it's unreasonable. But also i wasn't actually interested in killing him eod. Ack your thoughts on maple. That's kinda where i'm at with her too. Her play doesn't really... seem conducive to winning as a wolf? espec with an afk teammate. If taffy is a wolf that probs just means wolves weren't in a great spot regardless, but in that world I'm assuming the third would be highest investment given the bother to fakeclaim.

Dunno.

I'm having a bit of a hard time landing on a team of two that feels ~right~ rn

---

@EnderWiggin could you talk me through what about arctic you don't like?

Whats your thoughts on visor

[pzelda]

@pzelda what about this post is "just villa"

I find it more likely coming from not a wolf (in a pack) mind. It's that kind of post explaining something a different player maybe wanted to hold back.
But thinking about it some more, it might be a wolf using another player to create a narrative and to wifom.

Ok, I guess It's not the best post to read into.

[nebjiamn]

I find it more likely coming from not a wolf (in a pack) mind. It's that kind of post explaining something a different player maybe wanted to hold back.
But thinking about it some more, it might be a wolf using another player to create a narrative and to wifom.

Ok, I guess It's not the best post to read into.

i think you’re reading too much into that post. Ender says nothing new in it, he just said outright what I was saying clearer for Arctic

theres nothing wolfy or towny about it (IMHO)

[Arctic]

lol his line of questioning on dya is probs in the top 3 of towbiest things I read today, after your sod post which is verbatim what I planned to post myself later if I wanted to get some townread

yeah in all honesty, i think he's been pretty townie today

i think him tinfoiling me and taffy as w/w and knowing taffy wouldn't go over is townie regardless of what taffy is, i'm not sure that's smth a wolf would be thinking of lol. also what you said, not sure i get what he's going for but i believe he cares about it / would be weird for a wolf to pry on. i also liked the way he said lissa's eod was bad if rask and taffy were wolves but that it wasn't necessarily wolfy in context (aka rask 0 poster and taffy claiming PR - it's not unreasonable to not want to kill either of those ppl) - feels like he's giving her the benefit of the doubt and evaluating ppl in good faith

[pzelda]

It might be slightly unclear where I'm at:

Benneh/Stett/Dya
Arctic/Lissa
Visor/Maple/waza
Annika/Ladd/Ender/Taffy

I would say that there is't a single player who would be a blatant wolf. You're playing well. So, my Poe is more the least towny people than Wolfy players.

[Arctic]

if visor is a wolf then i think he started the game trying to wolfside (pushes on stett, annika) and then realized that wasn't going to work and townsided towards eod

which i think is.. plausible, especially given how quiet he's been this game. normally in cases like this i'd expect a town siding wolf to try and establish themselves more with their posting, but i'm not entirely convinced here. i could easily see it being a case of him trying to get cred long enough to survive until the people who would catch him are dead and then he can start posting/openwolfing more, which would make sense given how he got townread pretty early on easily for some small things and he didn't wanna mess that up

i understand that.. it may seem as though i'm implying that wolf visor would be "scared" to post which is not fully accurate, just rather that it would be optimal given the circumstances, so i am sorry if this reasoning comes across as patronising >.< i think visor is a good wolf but i'm still a little sketched

[didistetter]

Whats your thoughts on visor

I liked his eod generally, and I think him joining me on rask was towny when w!visor can easily justify going on arctic. I think his posting has been in line with what i've seen from him before. I liked him trying to talk yall into scumming me and it felt like he was genuinely trying to understand why people TR me as opposed to a wolf being salty that I was getting townread.

(caveat idk if i've actually even seen w!visor)

[didistetter]

It might be slightly unclear where I'm at:

Benneh/Stett/Dya
Arctic/Lissa
Visor/Maple/waza
Annika/Ladd/Ender/Taffy

I would say that there is't a single player who would be a blatant wolf. You're playing well. So, my Poe is more the least towny people than Wolfy players.

why do you have maple and waza as townier than annika and ladd?

[didistetter]

Btw Is there a way to count my posts and to isolate players?

if you go to main gameroom and click "replies" next to the thread you can see your postcount. You can also iso any person by clicking on their postcount.

you do need to know what # of posts you ended on d1 for that tho

[pzelda]

why do you have maple and waza as townier than annika and ladd?

Waza is for their D1 activity, moving the game forward early on. I only want to open them again, if I find everyone bellow them to be towns.
Maple is just... Mantis isn't an easy player to read. But I actually liked that eod and sticking to guns. It makes sense Mantis is in the Poe but I also feel a little bit wrong about that.

Also, I wanted to make a point that the bottom four are the first players to look at for me.

Visor probably should be one tier above them in a tier of his own.

[Lissa]

Ender writing this kinda makes me thing he's just a villa.

It's a pretty mundane and fairly obvious mech observation, why?

Not gonna quote the full post cause i am on phone but manti can tryhard as a wolf and they can slank, assuming they would try hard or push an agenda is wrong iyam

I have seen them troll eods as a wolf and i dont really think they were in a position to push a mislunch and neither to grab credit by voting rask (tho its arfuable how much credit there even is to grab voting a 0 poster eheh)

My thing is specifically that she's tryharding but specifically in a really unproductive way if she's a wolf and I'm pretty sure she would really want to win this game/in this playerlist as a wolf and approach it differently. Like including the leadup that got her to the point she was at at eod, not just eod itself.

don't think it's unreasonable. But also i wasn't actually interested in killing him eod. Ack your thoughts on maple. That's kinda where i'm at with her too. Her play doesn't really... seem conducive to winning as a wolf? espec with an afk teammate. If taffy is a wolf that probs just means wolves weren't in a great spot regardless, but in that world I'm assuming the third would be highest investment given the bother to fakeclaim.

Dunno.

I'm having a bit of a hard time landing on a team of two that feels ~right~ rn

---

@EnderWiggin could you talk me through what about arctic you don't like?

Fair enough.

Agree finding a team that feels right is hard atm

Btw Is there a way to count my posts and to isolate players?

Vote counts have your postcount for the day

Can see overall postcount and iso players by going to the subforim/thread list and clicking the # of posts itt

[EnderWiggin]

Why was waza's eod towny in your eyes? Benneh and others has been scrutinizing waza for that switch.

Because it makes no narrative sense after his constant unvote/vote signalling to try and get people to vote Rask.

[EnderWiggin]

@EnderWiggin could you talk me through what about arctic you don't like?

@didistetter
First post - This is the read on me that I've been harping on about. Makes a shade-centric observation. "Idk if this is uncharitable" and then basically suggests I'm posting differently "flavoured" to when he was wolf and he + DZ voted me out when I was town.

Second post - I call him out on it and he then admits he "Knew it was uncharitable" and intentionally tries to point out how he wasn't really pushing it as if that's a defense. (Which 1. puts lie to the "Idk if it is uncharitable" line and 2. if you're shading someone usually the point is that you're trying to make OTHER PEOPLE be the direct attackers while you have just pushed it subtly in the background.)

Third post - Shading Visor after Visor is generally townread (Visor has in recent times been potential miselim bait due to not caring about putting effort in, something I vibe with strongly.) and also backing down off me after I have shown my teeth.

Fourth post - This one feels like trying to poke another to a conclusion that he's annoyed they haven't reached but this one is ~meh. I'm mostly including it because he makes a deal about someone's alignment with his reads. Which is relevant for the follow up:

Fifth Post - Because when Dya pointed out how Arctic is sussing her despite having generally aligned reads his reaction is to:
Sixth Post - ONCE AGAIN the person he has poe'd/shaded/sussed comes back at him for how odd it is or how uncharitable it is and the response is to placate. "I don't really sus you tbh" instead of the response to me, but I felt like it was an echo.

Seventh Post - Now instead of "Feeling like there's a difference between my shitposting last time" he's now backed down to "I just am saying I could see myself shrug yeeting you cause idk any way to read you." The backpeddling to seem reasonable is the real reason I sunk my teeth into this and don't want to let go.

Eighth Post - "It's not just that I disagree with your reads"
Ninth Post - "i think other players have been townier and i disagree with his reads"
(Also I have always hated "I disagree with your reads" as a wolfread because how often do two town get different reads on things? Very often. Even amongst good players.)

This is mostly included because I feel like it fits with the placation to the person he's sussing while just straight up shading them to others with buzzword statements.

As for his EOD, It basically is mainly the following:
1. A weird request for Taffy to find wolves or die
2. A immediate bad reaction to the claim
3. "I don't believe taffy at all but 2 of my biggest suspects are voting her so idk"
4. Waffles around then puts down "I'd vote any of taffy/maple/ladd/rask" (Note: He does not vote Rask)
5. Has been waffling around on the claim but as soon as he starts getting votes instantly goes nuclear on trying to revitalise it against Taffy

I don't think that EOD is particularly wolfy tbh. It's kinda midline for me. The Rask note is like hindsight not ~great but also not that damning either.

My point is idk why that seems to be universally townread.

But again, it's very possible I'm miles deep in the tunnel and not seeing things clearly.

I definitely can get that way.