Uh, I dont think this host does double lynches.
And we should block a couple of people. You pick.... I don't want to even open my mouth after Chicago.
Edit: Stupido, me
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A bit of info on our daemonic friend - it did not take long at all to find him.
Lix Tetrax is the demon of the wind, in the Testament of Solomon. Lix is a Greek term relating to the earth, while Tetrax refers to a four-season year. The name has been identified with the Ephesian name connected to the wind found on a tablet from Crete. It is the Howling Whirlwind Demon born of the Great One — causes fever and burning, but if it feels kindly toward you, will refresh you with cool breezes and lead you to refuge.
So Reenk, please feel kindly towards us :wink:.
Or is it GH?
Hmmm....
I trust you guys can finish this one without me. Get the final scumbags...
Make me a happy pizzaguy once more. :shame: Please...
Goes on a long dirt nap...
I am still sceptical to the Ibn case. You need to find the .44 shooter and lynch him.
Just because you are a a great daemonic spirit, does not mean you are inscrutable Reenk, so stop it :brood:.
:laugh4::laugh4:
Please kindly wait until my analysis for the lynches is done to reserve your judgment Sigurd - I also have a Large game to start, a small game to do the day write up for, a diplomacy game to check on, a LotR PvP battle and story to do, a late AAR that needs done, My CA account to maintain, and an RP at another site to finish up. This does not include work and college, as well as doing the things such as getting my exercise, eating, cleaning the dishes, doing laundry, balancing my account, and helping finish the house I have moved into.
Whats your excuse for inactivity ~;p
Ibn has a role of some sort (as demonstrated by him faking a townie role PM) and doesn't seem inclined to convince us it's a pro-town role. I agree he can't be the .44 killer because he appears to have been blocked after GH was, ah, talked to. However, that still leaves the supernatural thing and Isabelle. The supernatural thing (hereinafter ST) might be neutral or pro-town, but Isabelle is definitely not.
Time for another summary of who can be what, assuming (*cough*) that GH is legit.
GeneralHankerchief - The Guide and cannot be ST, as he was 'attacked' by it on N9.
Glyphz - Cannot be ST or .44 Magnum killer, as he was blocked by GH on N7, when both appeared.
Seamus Fermanagh - Cannot be ST or .44 Magnum killer, as he was blocked by GH on N7, when both appeared.
Lord Winter - Cannot be .44 Magnum killer, as was blocked by GH on N9. Could be ST, as the nature of the N9 write-up and GH's PM from Andres make it plausible that the ST could have talked to GH despite being one of the blocked.
Ibn-Khaldun - Cannot be .44 Magnum killer, as was blocked by GH on N9. Could be ST, as the nature of the N9 write-up and GH's PM from Andres make it plausible that the ST could have talked to GH despite being one of the blocked.
boudica - Can be ST or .44 Magnum killer.
YLC - Can be ST or .44 Magnum killer.
So, our only options for the .44 are boudica and YLC.
Now, there is some other evidence to point towards. On Night 5, we had another one of these 'Mexican Standoffs'. Unlike the other one, the Night 5 write-up doesn't talk about a .44 Magnum. However, if we assume it was the same person, then that clears boudica of being the .44 Magnum killer, as she was blocked by GH that night. So, if you want to go with that assumption, by process of elimination YLC must be the .44 Magnum killer.
I still submit that my night actions were nullified tonight because of the ST paying me a visit. Witness the whole "hurry" thing, as similar to the night where I failed to block ATPG.
-edit- IK is definitely scum and should be lynched immediately. The next night I'll just block YLC and we can get him then.
If you guys lynch me, then good for you! I go happily to whatever death awaits me! Wheeeeeee!
What the heck is the ST?
As we've now coined him, "Supernatural thing".
That should be by new custom user title. :laugh4:
Also congrats on the Assistant Moderator thing GH. :bow:
The "supernatural thing" is Lix Tetrax, if you bothered to pay attention to what I post.
I was just about to post that, thanks.
Seven remain. Taking me out of the equation, there are six:
Glyphz
Seamus Fermanagh
Lord Winter
Ibn-Khaldun
boudica
YLC
Out of the six, I trust Seamus and glyphz totally. They should not be on anyone's lynch list. Before tonight I was a little concerned about Seamus, but now, considering ST's intentions are most likely pro-town, he's back to my 100% trust level. This leaves us with four:
Lord Winter
Ibn-Khaldun
boudica
YLC
I am pressing hard for an Ibn-Khaldun lynch today, with the intent of blocking two of the other three left at night. At first I was thinking of YLC and Lord Winter, although boudica's victory in Chicago Soiree has served as a wake-up call. She is perfectly capable of being mafia.
Eventually I will make my decision on who to block and publicly post it in the thread early on in the night phase. I implore Supernatural thing to perform its action on the one person I leave out. Working at cross-purposes skews my data and is detrimental to the town. Assuming ST functions as a roleblocker, we could essentially nullify any and all anti-town night actions.
Vote: Boudica
Your participation is lacking, especially as we enter the final stages. Your participation in Chicago is, to date, somewhat of an excuse.
How do YOU explain the demon's call for us to take out the femme?
How do YOU explain your continuing lurker approach here. In Chicago you were voting at least...
Based on the past night write-ups, it does look like YLC has the highest likelihood of being the magnum killer, who was targeted by mafia back in N7.
However, the bigger issue is Ibn-Khaldun's obvious attempt to fake/tamper his rolePM. There is simply no way the sender's name be misspelled. Ibn-K is obviously hiding something, and better deserving of my vote.
Thus, Vote: Ibn-Khaldun
Besides, we should stick to a plan revolving around GH's ability. I suggest town to follow suit.
edit: Based on the past weekends, it's likely participation will be less, unfortunately
Quote:
Tally:
Ibn-Khaldun: 2 (GeneralHankerchief, glyphz)
Lord Winter: 1 (Ibn-Khaldun)
boudica: 1 (Seamus Fermanagh)
Actually, I have a better idea. We'll let the mafia do our work for us.
I'll block Seamus and glyphz, leaving only potential scum as the mafia's targets.
What do you guys think of this instead?
Never mind, forgot this strategy leaves me potentially vulnerable to attack. Better if we just eliminate any chance of any night-kills.
I would be against it - we are leaving ourselves to open if we do as you suggest above. Second, keep your strategy to yourself - talking about it at all might give the mafia a clue about what to do during the night.
Thank you town for not lynching me. GH is gone too, but we now have a chance. Let us not repeat the mistakes of Chicago.
After you lynch me and there still be a night phase then I will laugh at you. You blame me only because I spelled Andres' name wrongly because of writing too fast. This case against me is even worse than the one made against TC!
And just like I said - I only did a simple copy-paste of that PM and not doing reply>copy-pase. That's why I misspelled his name. But no one haven't explained that 'Ehpesus'. All townies should have got it. If I would've got another role and this 'Townie' PM would've been just an add-on then Andres most likely would've wrote it right.
Anyway.. this thing is getting me a headache and I only come back when this lynch is over and the game still continues.
Please, trust me when I say that I am not mafia. Is that too much to ask?
Yeah about the townie PM... I looked at my PM from ages ago, and it says Ehpesus!
Methinks Ibn may not be so guilty after all...
White eyes .. but can you explain why that 'pm' you posted have the same spelling error of Andrres just like in that pm I posted? I think you just did a quick copy-paste just to make me look more guilty. If there is a Townie pm posted before then could you give us a link to it??
And thanks shlin28 for confirming that.
I can only apologise for lack of contribution - I'd say my posting in both games have been roughly equal. The other game i was in (until some snake shot me in the gut) was 'You can't win' - given an unexpected RL schedule and clear understanding now that 3 simultaneous games of mafia is too much - you have your 'excuse'.
I'd say the 'demon's call is indeed a hope of ending this madness by lynching Isabelle. I am not Isabelle.
Thanking my fellow townies for their diligent investigation, I'd be happy to add my vote to either Ibn K or YLC this turn, but the magnum evidence seems more important to me than some fake pm mix-up. I'll vote: YLC
tally:
Ibn-Khaldun: 2 (GeneralHankerchief, glyphz)
Lord Winter: 1 (Ibn-Khaldun)
boudica: 1 (Seamus Fermanagh)
YLC: 1 (boudica)
Unvote: Ibn_Khaldun
Vote: boudica
Why did you do that GH? Boudica's vote seemed reasonable enough to me...
A combination of frivolous little factors that would sound really stupid if I post them. Call it a gut feeling.
I guess it us up to YLC now... make the final vote on boudica or tie it with another vote and let fate (random) decide.
I have nothing against following your gut feelings, but, at this stage of the game, I choose to go after more established(?) suspects (based on night action patterns), of which I think has proved effective so far.
I'm left hanging w/ who I suspect the most, and it doesn't look like things will change, so I have to go for the next person I suspect most.
Unvote: Ibn-Khaldun; Vote: YLC
Voting concluded.
Stand by for execution.
The Scourge of Ephesus - Day 9.
https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/...rg/Artemis.jpg
Near the last statue of Artemis - 9.30 pm
The tourists continued the discussion.
Soon, Ibn-Khaldun found himself in the middle of all attention. He screamed out his innocence. boudica, who had been very quiet, participated in the debate, drawing attention to another suspect.
The day was coming to an end. At the end of the day, some tourists changed their minds. Perhaps the ongoing drama was finally making them completely paranoid...?
boudica and YLC were standing in front of the old man. The old man searched in his pocket and showed an ancient Roman coin. "I've found this one a long time ago. Should have given it to the Turkish authorities a long while ago. Oh well, maybe it was meant to decide our fates..."
He flipped the coin and looked at it.
"It seems like boudica will have to die today."
All eyes were on boudica, who stayed surprisingly calm. Maybe hardened by the past events?
"Well, in the end, we all die eventually."
boudica looked carefully at the 6 others.
Looking at glyphz, boudica said: "Quick and painless please."
glyphz nodded and took the gun boudica offered.
"Good luck," boudica said to glyphz. "You'll need it."
glyphz pointed the gun at boudica. One shot from the mighty gun ended boudica's life mercifully.
glyphz dropped the gun, turned around and left the scene with an emotionless face.
The other tourists seemed confused.
"Let's go to sleep now," the old man said.
***
Tally:
boudica : 2 (GeneralHankerchief, Seamus Fermanagh) :skull:
YLC: 2 (boudica, glyphz)
Lord Winter : 1 (Ibn-Khaldun)
Not voting : 2 (Lord Winter, YLC)
Alive (6) :
GeneralHankerchief
YLC
Ibn-Khaldun
Lord Winter
Glyphz
Seamus Fermanagh
Killed (11) :
777Ares777
TheFlax
White_Eyes :D
Reenk Roink
Askthepizzaguy
Quintus.JC
woad&fangs
shlin28
El Diablo
Yoyoma1910
187Beefyz
Lynched (9) :
TinCow
Tevashzat
FactionHeir
Jolt
Sigurd
seireikhaan
CountArach
Chaotix27
boudica
WoG/Suicide (4):
Rythmic
Ignoramus
Tiberius of the Drake
Caius
It's now night. PM's please. Night will last for 24 hours.
Tonight I will be blocking Ibn-Khaldun and YLC. I strongly suggest that Supernatural thing perform its action on Lord Winter.
I still can't shake the Netherworld vibes I'm getting from this game. When things seem to be going well for the town, that's a sure sign that we're all screwed.
Ice cold move YLC... Not voting and risking getting lynched. I know I said it is too ballsy for Mafia to play like this.
I am starting to think that maybe Andres put something in the scum PMs. Something along the lines of: If votes on you ties with another, a coin flip will always favour you.
edit: :balloon2: Yay.. post number 1000 :balloon2:
I don't understand the move on boudica. It doesn't make sense for townies. You had two very strong lynch options in Ibn and YLC. The only reason I see to vote for boudica under the circumstances is that the scum are finally comfortable enough in their position to not bother with formalities. I am now preparing myself to be very disappointed with GH.
meh. I can only say I wish I'd been online more often throughout this mysterious caper - to defend myself at the last, at the very least.
Best of luck to you all
I think the budica lynch was mainly driven by the backlash following her win in Chigago Sorrie. Ibn while acting somewhat scummy, can not be damned just for the PM. He would have to type in what the quotes said anyway, as there is no quote PM to thread function on the fourm. Also couldn't the five person send limit account for some of the minor differences in the PM such as the lack of a space?
She was a Victim of her own success.....:no::shame:Quote:
I think the budica lynch was mainly driven by the backlash following her win in Chigago Sorrie.
FoS: Glyphz
You've lurked throughout the whole thing, popping up occasionally to say some tidbit that really isn't as helpful as it appears, and then this round switch the votes from the more established possible scum to Boudica, which GH did as well, and both of you have refused to truly explain your motives either!
It appears we have lost this game for the mafia to act so openly and blatantly. I did not vote last round when I saw Ibn being voted for - I did not need to pile my vote on a suspect who seemed doomed anyway. Yet, after my last post questioning GH's vote for Boudica, I had to leave to go to my little cousins' birthday party and did not have access to the computer - had I know this is what would have come, I would have lynched myself. This would have reduced it down to Ibn to be lynched at the very least, and those who voted otherwise could be properly investigated.
Again, I am town, have always been, always will be. Even now, I would be willing to call suicide so I can further concentrate on my upcoming large game to prove that point.
glyphz never voted for boudica. As a matter of fact he questioned my reasoning for voting her and voted for you instead.
I did not say he had voted for boudica, you did, and I am sorry if it came out that way. But you both switched your votes from Ibn to other suspects at the last moment. Had you voted for me, that would have been fine - I was suspect number 2, and it would have at least made some sense.
However, your vote switching put both me and Boudica up for lynch, which makes no sense. If your really on the game plan with us GH, you would have voted for me.
Then who were you talking to?Quote:
and then this round switch the votes from the more established possible scum to Boudica, which GH did as well
That post still doesn't make sense though. You yourself said that you were extremely high on the suspect list, but still criticized glyphz from switching from, in your words, Priority #1 (IK) to Priority #2 (you). That small of a dropoff doesn't really warrant that post against him.
Excuse me, but did anyone notice that boudica handed Glyphs the gun that killed her?
Ooh, nice find. That makes me feel better about my switch. :yes:
It was also near the last statue of Artemis, according to the location.
Perhaps there's a connection to the statue portions of the write ups?
Maybe this is nothing, but the wording mighty gun to describe the gun used in the lynch makes me suspect the gun Boudica handed over was actually the .44 Magnum.
Excerpt from night 9:
187Beefyz stared at the man, not really understanding what he was trying to say. His eyes widened when he saw the man holding a .44 Magnum.
“But…”
“There are far worse places to die, my friend.”
One shot from the mighty gun ended 187Beefyz’ life.
If I stuck my vote on Ibn, boudica will be automatically lynched since she would be the only one w/ 2 votes. Unconvinced that boudica should be lynched, I was forced to switch my vote to you, my 2nd top suspect, who already has a vote to amke it 2, and creating a tie.
The random vote went to boudica, and it's looks like she was the magnum-wielding guy.
'Mighty gun' likely hints to a magnum.Quote:
boudica looked carefully at the 6 others.
Looking at glyphz, boudica said: "Quick and painless please."
glyphz nodded and took the gun boudica offered.
"Good luck," boudica said to glyphz. "You'll need it."
glyphz pointed the gun at boudica. One shot from the mighty gun ended boudica's life mercifully.
Why she chose me, specifically, to do it?
:shrug:
Now YLC, I have a question for you.
The final tally shows that you and boudica are tied, with LW being the only other person who has a vote.Quote:
Tally:
boudica : 2 (GeneralHankerchief, Seamus Fermanagh)
YLC: 2 (boudica, glyphz)
Lord Winter : 1 (Ibn-Khaldun)
Not voting : 2 (Lord Winter, YLC)
And yet, in the write-ups...
... it is boudica and Ibn-K whose fates were decided by a coin.Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Could you explain why are you (and perhaps LW) 'non-existent' in the write-ups?:huh2:
:wall:
Forgive me then, my attack on you was undeserved, and you actually did what was best at the time - my own laziness put my foot in my mouth.
As to the write up, I have no idea, but lynch me the coming round if I am not dead this night.
The General is gaining strength with his lynch choice it seems. Yet the game is not over?
This also is a plus in Seamus' book as it was his nose who got the wind of the mighty gun.
My nose however is wrinkling over Ibn still being a candidate for lynch. We all know the coin flip should have been between YLC and boudica. Yet it was not so...
I know I had some secret voting abilities in Midgard, could this be the case here? One or two of the players voted in secret to put boudica and Ibn with a hidden 3 vs 3 vote?
If this is the case, it would be hard to lynch the remaining mafioso, should there be 2 hidden votes left. You need a full majority ... no a unanimous lynch to get rid of players.
This reeks of fish gone bad.
Sorry, my mistake.
The coin flip was made between YLC and boudica, not Ibn-Khaldun and boudica.
This is what happens when you have to hurry :shame:
I'd bet 1000 € on how glyphz is Bernard. Thinking that Boudica was Isabelle, she gave him her pistol, which apparently glyphz (Bernard) killed her and went off rather depressed. So lynch glyphz please. (I still believe GH is scum though.) I'd lynch one of them.
I could theoretically see the game being over.
Andres said two posts above that he had to hurry posting last night's lynch scene. Maybe that means he just didn't have time to do the final scene as well.
Knock on wood.
Uh, no. Andres specifically asked for night PMs and said it would last 24 hours. That said, I do have a feeling the game is essentially over.
I mean, we've killed boudica, who is looking more and more like the Magnum killer by the second. The aggressive tourist is probably dead, and we haven't seen the cigarette killer in a while either.
Anyway, the asking for PM thing could be a bluff.
Yeah, I suppose. I'm just feeling a bit jaded. This game is either a resounding town victory or a resounding mafia victory. Since I've never seen a town victory in any game I've ever played, I'm finding it hard to have faith in the former.
TinCow:
It could also be a supernatural victory. Andres' PM to townies clearly indicates that the game concludes when ALL threats are removed, not merely the mafiosi.
I am still thinkin things through. I was twigged by Boudica and by Chaotix, I-K piqued my interest later. GH has commanded my interest throughout. GH has, so far, done everything he has told me he will do. Whether he works for us all, or just for himself, is still somewhat in question for me. I have immense respect for his abilities, having watched and worked with him in a number of games.
Hmmmmm.
Oh, the suspense...
The drama...
Will there be another round or not?
:sweatdrop:
It must be killing you guys... Still a whole hour left, refreshing that screen over and over again...
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Ordinarily I would complain but then I remembered that I have a game coming up and I'll probably do the same exact thing.
Plus, we passed 1,000 posts a while ago. That means you have to do a commentary now. :tongue:
I'm actually more concerned about where my advertisement for my large game went, dear infallible Andres :whip:
The Scourge of Ephesus - Night 10 - Conclusion.
https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/...susbynight.jpg
The Ancient City of Ephesus - 0.00 am
The moon was out and gave an eerie light to the ruins of the old city. A gust of cold wind whistled in the ancient theatre and moved on to the temple of Hadrian and unto the gate of Augustus as if searching for something.
It whined and sighed through the Roman library and went on to the Gladiator graveyard.
It searched there but found nothing. At the fountain of Pollio it finally found its mark.
The wind dispersed but darkness gathered. The darkness entombed the fountain and a sudden frost appeared on the still water in the fountain.
The figure sitting alone with its' back up against the fountain noticed the frost on its' breath and wondered about it.
glyphz had not noticed the pressing, surrounding darkness at first. But the sudden cold made it clear.
The darkness folded in on glyphz, who nearly panicked.
“What is this?"
glyphz cringed.
"A sudden and unbearable pain in my chest, as if someone is squeezing my heart."
glypzh fell to the ground and could not get up.
“P.. please, I beg you. D…d..don’t kill me,” glyphz crocked, powerless.
The pain did not stop.
"No, I don't want to die!"
Then, the pain stopped. Life blood was again pumping strength.
Laughter boomed in the darkness and a pair of blood colored eyes appeared. A voice uttered: “The town is not free, two still remain. The old man must live, so must his apprentice”.
The darkness dispersed with those last words and glyphz was left scared, very scared.
GeneralHankerchief was in a hurry. The strange sounds ealier that night didn't bode too well.
"I won't fail this time!" he said to himself.
Sweat was dripping from his nose into his mouth. The events were asking too much from his old bones, so it seemed.
He accidentally tripped over a rock.
"Ouch!" he yelled. He had twisted his anckle.
"Have to get up, no time for this."
He stood up but fell again, not able to keep his balance.
Somebody tapped him on the back.
GeneralHankerchief looked up and saw somebody standing behind him. He couldn't see the face of the shady one.
"Please, can you help me to get up? I need to..."
He kept silent when he saw a silenced pistol pointed at him.
"This can't be true. Not after all I have..."
Two bullets in his head ended his life.
The shady figure put away the silent gun, kicked GeneralHankerchiefs' mutilated head a few times and then calmly walked away.
Lord Winter couldn't sleep that night. Allthough the horrific events from the last few days had exhausted him, he couldn't sleep.
"Oh, if I could only get some sleep."
He felt in his pocket and found the weed he had been carrying with him. Oh, the excitement he felt when he crossed the border, less then 2 weeks ago! Taking some weed with you on your holiday to Turkey, it seemed like the most exciting thing to do back then.
"Ha, if only the police would have caught me, I wouldn't be here right now."
Lord Winter looked at the stuff in his hand.
"Well, I only smoke weed when I need to. And I need to get some rest."
He started to roll himself a joint.
Minutes later, he enjoyed the first inhalation.
"Oh, if I could only get some sleep..."
He didn't notice the silent person that had sneaked up on him.
Lord Winter never knew what hit him.
The figure put away the silenced pistol, picked up the joint and left the scene, calmly smoking.
***
The Scourge of Ephesus - Day 10
https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/...es-theater.jpg
The Ancient Theater - 9.00 am
YLC, Ibn-Khaldun, glyphz and Seamus Fermanagh entered the theatre.
They stared at each other.
"Where are the other two?" one of them asked.
"I found GeneralHankerchiefs' body near the Library...", another one said.
"I found Lord Winter dead in the Odeion," the third one added.
They looked at each other again.
"So, it seems like it isn't over yet," number four concluded.
***
Alive (4) :
YLC
Ibn-Khaldun
glyphz
Seamus Fermanagh
Killed (13) :
777Ares777
TheFlax
White_Eyes :D
Reenk Roink
Askthepizzaguy
Quintus.JC
woad&fangs
shlin28
El Diablo
Yoyoma1910
187Beefyz
GeneralHankerchief
Lord Winter
Lynched (9) :
TinCow
Tevashzat
FactionHeir
Jolt
Sigurd
seireikhaan
CountArach
Chaotix27
boudica
WoG/Suicide (4):
Rythmic
Ignoramus
Tiberius of the Drake
Caius
It's now day. You can start voting. Day will last for +/- 24 hours (until 22.30 GMT+1)
Good luck town.
I recommend a lynch of YLC.
-edit- I'm assuming my apprentice means Seamus.
Yeesh. That's what you get for ignoring common sense and picking boudica over YLC or Ibn. :no:
Worth noting that the .44 killer is gone, so at least that's something. However 2 kills by a silenced pistol guy is bad. I thought we'd finished them off. Despite the double kills, there can't possibly be two left, otherwise the game would be over. Andres must have let the remaining guy kill twice. It's got to be YLC or Ibn, but you've only got one lynch to get it right.
Hopefully, ST kills the other guy......:sweatdrop:
:drama3:
I'm not even gonna say anything.
I can't divulge the content of my final PM, but judging by the writeup it looks like my killer got to me before I was able to block him. Look back in the thread and find where I said who I was going to block tonight.
Lynch one of them today (preferably YLC) and then let's hope that ST takes care of the other one at night. If not... yeah.
Vote: Seamus
Nothing personal Ibn, but your to inexperienced in mafia to pull what Seamus has so far. I am convinced of Glyphz innocence at least, and I know I am innocent, but Ibn, you and Seamus are not.
Only Seamus knew of what GH was going to do each night, putting you two in a perfect position to hide as you pleased. Obviously, Reenk Roink thought you threat enough Seamus - he did try to kill you in fact, and I think it was only narrated that you were attacked to show you were at the same time protected.
The case with ATPG is easy enough too - GH's protection failed for only one reason: ATPG was attacked by the Vig, and I am fairly sure the Vig's power trumps any protection in this game.
But, I see the town is dead set on me, so I'll go over here, light my cigar, and stare at the sun, waiting for the bullet to enter my brain. Well done mafia.
Assuming the ST can do something other than deliver messages...
Still, 50/50 odds aren't bad, and I'm pretty happy just to see that my trust in GH wasn't misplaced. I've been gnashing my teeth over that decision for days. Since it appears we missed one of the digging duo, I'll look back over my role block analysis and see if there's any way to figure out whether it's YLC or Ibn.