Gemma's Favorite Music Mafia

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Originally Posted by annika

hmm
he's kinda wolfie tho imo

not really just for his scumread on me—specifically saying he thinks Arctic and I are a diff check in 336 doesn't track for me when Arctic and I haven't interacted at all and... should pretty easily be partners from his PoV

he says he's not sure why he thinks that, which is fair, but it's still odd to me

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another game state read, and not one i feel particularly confident about on a macro level, but with how the game is shaping up, it feels like there's a contingent of strong trs on slots that fall into my poe that i'm going to be clearly wrong about, but if/as some of that happens, arctic falls into a place where I could see that working if, for example, i'm wrong on you.

this doesn't really apply to a few others in my poe for various reasons that i probably put into words well, but its not just "haha theyre a diff check"

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and I haven't interacted at all and... should pretty easily be partners from his PoV

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i'm not discounting yall being partners entirely, but to your point, yall dont have pairing interactions so its not something i actively considered. i probably worded that poorly. again, moreso just gamestate wise, I could see arctic being a hit if i'm wrong with you--it just feels kinda right with how the game is is being blended in my brain at the moment. "parsing the game somewhat as a diff check" - somewhat was doing heavy lifting there, but it was more meant to display the world in which we flipped you first and you came around town, my next target for investigation would have been arctic. if arctic got flipped here and was wolf, i don't think i'd have cleared you (barring you being a part of his push).


ftr annika i don't really hate your poe overall -- there's a decent chance a good chunk of it is correct and i think that's viewable by the thread consensus starting to gel around a core of maple/arctic/rask as a main POE group with you/taffy/ender kinda filling the gaps depending on whos making the read

we're only really boned if that has like 1 wolf max but shruze

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dya seems decently townie. them having some conviction and breadth in their reads right away feels like a good entry

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this feels like a good place to say i don't super townread ladd here, but i don't scumlean him either. i kinda just hope he's right on taffy since he's got some conviction there. this is not me saying we judge him solely off their flip--just that it'd be nice for me to not have to parse him after that.

also i'm back on just thinking pzelda is town. i rescinded that tr earlier because i didn't want to do it on the basis of "new player make big poast" but after letting things settle a bit I just come out of their posts feeling good with them. i know this isn't like revelatory for anyone but ya


i will prob move my vote to taffy shortly--i don't come out of this string of posts tring annika but she's given me enough content to wana parse through and let simmer a bit and see what happens this morning. also i'm a bit weirded out the wagon on annika actually took off -- which sucks cause i thnk i'm tring both of the players that joined me? problems for another version of me maybe

I'm eepy and need more sleep idk when eod is but I'm sure I'll be awake before it

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this feels like a good place to say i don't super townread ladd here, but i don't scumlean him either.

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Seems fair enuf


Not sure i agree on dya with you but its still early we will see

i see the rest of your wall waza and ill pprocess it in a bit, but this part:

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in a world where me annika and stett are all town i am pinged by the fact that he hasnt managed to find any of us 3 this game given he has a really good read on all 3 of us. the caveat is i think annika and stett are defs sandbagging somewhat and im being weird so maybeeeeeeee its excusable but idk

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i have stett as town and you as probly town atp. i've said as much im pretty sure re: stett, but she def has some weird sequences that have given me pause

i haven't said it abotu you because honestly the fact that i ended up having you as prob town is kinda boring. part of it is a sheep, part of it is your content gelled better. but i just don't have a ton to back and forth with you about, especially cause of our mutual high-posting, and also you aren't in any kind of danger. and yea, also, your play was annoying me initially lol.

i also think there is/was value to letting e.g. stett build her case on you so i can see it and read her, read others off it, etc, so that's why i didn't step in to be like "hey he's town now let him cook leave it alone"

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Originally Posted by ladd

Whats your concerns about sunbae?

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well, his tone feels off to me. that's the long and short of it. He had some stuff around not understanding lissa that other people thought might be weird, but I don't think sunbae generally thinks along game starts/ends meaning people can be more free so i think that's pretty NAI. I'm also not seeing a ton of content from him and he's usually pretty free flowing with that.

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Originally Posted by Arctic

meh i'm really not seeing the visor townreads guys >.<

the post about annika felt like verbalized in a way such that he was trying to get townread and he doesn't have other reads with that same level of depth of thought which i feel lends credence to what i'm saying, and people even recognize that his push on stett didn't feel great which is the main thing i'm suspicious of - not just the detached comparison to lissa's game, but more the way he was sort of sewing the seeds there in a shady way

i think he is the wolfiest person amongst active posters. i feel like ender got a tiny bit towny but i'm not sure

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This is a Wolfy post

Not because he is pushing me, but because of his framing of the stett push

I don't think anyone has said my push on stett didn't feel great

There are people who don't agree with the dead, sure and find stett villagery

But no one is actually out here saying those things about my read re stett (unless I've forgotten something)

The hedge on ender is meh too, but the phrasing around stett being slimy is what is problematic here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYKgOqRS6KI

:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 1 - Votes from post 1 through 386

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
3	annika	Lissa (39), didistetter (34), nebjiamn (46)
3	Totally not Taffy	Visor (28), ladd (24), pzelda (15)
1	Raskolnikov	waza (50)
1	Arctic	EnderWiggin (25)
1	Maple	annika (33)
1	nebjiamn	Totally not Taffy (10)
6	Not Voting	Arctic (21), Maple (26), Raskolnikov (0), Sunbae (19), dyachei (12)

waza i agree on sunbae, he is probably my second guess for a wolf rn based on what you described there, better than i could - but i got pinged by the kinda arbitrary read list too and lack of connections explored from there

idk why you are pinged by me townreading you. i'm pretty good at reading you. i think you are clearly town lol, i haven't seen you wolf in long form so if you think i should know better then well.. i don't. egg on my face if this is wrong, but i am not getting there for a while especially not after this wall

i should probably clarify that i'm not wolfreading stett, actually i'll just make my full read list now

town:

waza
pzelda
lissa
stett
maple
annika
taffy
benneh

poe:

dya
rask
ladd
sunbae
visor

i recognize that i can have 2 more people in my poe lol. and i also recognize that this is a hard world to reconcile because it assumes a bunch of v/v/v violence in waza/annika/stett/benneh. so i'm not ruling out that benneh/annika could have a wolf. but i think sunbae/ladd/visor are all just more likely hits. i don't townread anything from ladd and i have expressed concerns with sunbae and visor. if taffy is a wolf, then maybe i'm wrong on ladd, but i don't really see it. i just think the way taffy made those pushes is town

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Originally Posted by Arctic

waza i agree on sunbae, he is probably my second guess for a wolf rn based on what you described there, better than i could - but i got pinged by the kinda arbitrary read list too and lack of connections explored from there

idk why you are pinged by me townreading you. i'm pretty good at reading you. i think you are clearly town lol, i haven't seen you wolf in long form so if you think i should know better then well.. i don't. egg on my face if this is wrong, but i am not getting there for a while especially not after this wall

i should probably clarify that i'm not wolfreading stett, actually i'll just make my full read list now

town:

waza
pzelda
lissa
stett
maple
annika
taffy
benneh

poe:

dya
rask
ladd
sunbae
visor

i recognize that i can have 2 more people in my poe lol. and i also recognize that this is a hard world to reconcile because it assumes a bunch of v/v/v violence in waza/annika/stett/benneh. so i'm not ruling out that benneh/annika could have a wolf. but i think sunbae/ladd/visor are all just more likely hits. i don't townread anything from ladd and i have expressed concerns with sunbae and visor. if taffy is a wolf, then maybe i'm wrong on ladd, but i don't really see it. i just think the way taffy made those pushes is town

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oops, ender is in my poe too

ugh I am not at all a fan of me/maple/annika being thrown around as the poe when I think this is easily 0 wolves

normally I'd wolfread someone who talks a lot about their process in place of utilising said process, but i think given Maple's existential crisis in mafia (as benneh described earlier) - i think it tracks, and, quoting from waza too, he feels kinda lost in a villagery way and struggling to make stances in a way that wolf him wouldn't be here given the discussion we related to about how wolfing is a lot easier

annika i could be wrong on but i think her push on benneh just sounds like. she is a girlboss and knows she is town. idk. i'm aware girlbossing is a staple of her wolf game, but it didn't.. really feel like a cat scrambling around kinda defence. i think she believes it. i think she can easily defer to Taffy or me as a wolf here but maple is a kinda novel push here (even tho i think it's wrong) which i'd give points to

i'm trying to put words to two reads which are inherently intuitive so i understand if this doesn't convince anyone, but it's how i feel so >.<

damn everyone started dropping spicy posts as i have to go into work

i see your posts: @ arcy / waza / ladd (re: dya)

ill think as i sit in traffic

the sunbae reads in general are most interesting to me

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Originally Posted by Visor

This is a Wolfy post

Not because he is pushing me, but because of his framing of the stett push

I don't think anyone has said my push on stett didn't feel great

There are people who don't agree with the dead, sure and find stett villagery

But no one is actually out here saying those things about my read re stett (unless I've forgotten something)

The hedge on ender is meh too, but the phrasing around stett being slimy is what is problematic here

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the post before this was lissa basically shutting down your read because that's just how stett plays

now.. she probably wasn't explicitly calling it wolfy because you may not be aware of that meta, but it was still implying that the push was not good

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Originally Posted by Arctic

the post before this was lissa basically shutting down your read because that's just how stett plays

now.. she probably wasn't explicitly calling it wolfy because you may not be aware of that meta, but it was still implying that the push was not good

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i don't think its fair to conflate lissa's post wherein she explains a meta read to visor as calling visor's push "not good"

at least not in the sense that you are sorta doing the legwork to call it wolfy on lissa's behalf

this is another nitpicky thing but i think this matters tbh

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Originally Posted by Lissa

ben



yeah it is I just kind of already have too many villagers lmao



hm fair enough ig



yeah ultimately I think the type of confusing/weird stuff she has done isn't really a kind of weird that makes her a wolf or makes really much of ANY sense for her to actually do as a wolf


it is possible I am giving the waza/stett stuff too much weight re: annika

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Are you talking about this post?

i do find it weird that I'm the person closest to arctic's reads and not wanting annika/taffy wagons particularly, but I'm also in his POE. this is NAI for him I think but it's interesting.

Ben, do you think sunbae's tone is ok or that I'm out there with that read

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Originally Posted by Lissa

I feel like that's just kinda how stett enters games though?

(also funny/weird and extremely tangential but getting a bunch of free townreads at the start of the mash that I realized were basically because normally I come into the thread like several hours after sod and post like it's sod and I didn't there because I spent an hour posting at sod was kinda like... it really made me want to alter my approach to start of games lol. just in general I've been thinking about like how to start actually getting nightkilled as a villager too and just generally my approach to earlygame as well as some other aspects of villaging. and idk how to do it regularly cause the mash problem is I kinda NEED that sod-y posting to get into the flow of the game but getting early townreads like that was soooo nice??)

(also I think it was basically impossible for you to ever find me mid d1-d3 the way that game played out with you getting railroaded for bad reasons, it made it insanely easy for me to post good about it because it was all real thoughts lol)


visor seems villagery



this read is kind of just like

it's presented in a more village visor sort of way imo

the specific way it meanders a bit and the layers of it

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I was talking about this one

also @dya i don't really think you are a wolf, i just have more of a reason to townread the others. i liked annika's reason to townread you and i'm kinda thinking similarly - the way you went back and forth on her/taffy. but it's not enough to move the needle rn

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Originally Posted by Arctic

I was talking about this one

also @dya i don't really think you are a wolf, i just have more of a reason to townread the others. i liked annika's reason to townread you and i'm kinda thinking similarly - the way you went back and forth on her/taffy. but it's not enough to move the needle rn

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I mean that's a disagreement on the basis of a read in a post in which she says she thinks I am a villager lol

The basis doesn't work for the way she approaches the game but we are different people

"and people even recognize that his push on stett didn't feel great which is the main thing i'm suspicious of"

So people is just Lissa
Didn't feel great is: disagree with basis but still think is a villager

That's the read?

Random aside but I don't know why arctic lumped maple in that grouping earlier, yes people don't have strong reads on maple but she's not actively being targeted

Just felt a touch strange

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Originally Posted by dyachei

i do find it weird that I'm the person closest to arctic's reads and not wanting annika/taffy wagons particularly, but I'm also in his POE. this is NAI for him I think but it's interesting.

Ben, do you think sunbae's tone is ok or that I'm out there with that read

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49th post for me

tonally I think he's fine, but i think that's one of his better attributes so I'm not the best person to ask. i do think sus on him is fair, especially in a world where the 'consensus' poe that has formed is a bit off, i'd ask you this instead: without regard for tone, what in his posting have you seen that would make you doubt if he's town?


The answer for me is something along the lines of:

1) his post about never having this happen when he's a wolf. waza explained the read better than I can in his large post, i very much agreed with that as I skimmed it. that felt off to me, if you want to call that a 'tone' thing then sure, but to me that's content.

2) his interjection with annika about being careful of happy cause his stett read/reversal was a play that's in his wolf range. i've talked about this on the annika side and why i thought her RESPONSE to that post was wolfy, but I also think it was a kinda wolfy thing to post @ annika in its own right

3) his post @ lissa about not needing to re-evaluate or reconsider things on day 1. this is a weak one, cause tis very much in his town wheelhouse to be that supportive townie who pushes others to believe in themselves, but that one also felt kind of off to me, because lissa was literally saying she townread everyone in the game and had 0 wolf reads. she definitely needed to re-eval something. and sunbae's post to that came off a bit "dont worry about it, everythings fine.gif"

feel free to bounce around with these posts but also tell me what other posts stand out to you? i won't be able to reply but ill be reading as i can

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

49th post for me

tonally I think he's fine, but i think that's one of his better attributes so I'm not the best person to ask. i do think sus on him is fair, especially in a world where the 'consensus' poe that has formed is a bit off, i'd ask you this instead: without regard for tone, what in his posting have you seen that would make you doubt if he's town?


The answer for me is something along the lines of:

1) his post about never having this happen when he's a wolf. waza explained the read better than I can in his large post, i very much agreed with that as I skimmed it. that felt off to me, if you want to call that a 'tone' thing then sure, but to me that's content.

2) his interjection with annika about being careful of happy cause his stett read/reversal was a play that's in his wolf range. i've talked about this on the annika side and why i thought her RESPONSE to that post was wolfy, but I also think it was a kinda wolfy thing to post @ annika in its own right

3) his post @ lissa about not needing to re-evaluate or reconsider things on day 1. this is a weak one, cause tis very much in his town wheelhouse to be that supportive townie who pushes others to believe in themselves, but that one also felt kind of off to me, because lissa was literally saying she townread everyone in the game and had 0 wolf reads. she definitely needed to re-eval something. and sunbae's post to that came off a bit "dont worry about it, everythings fine.gif"

feel free to bounce around with these posts but also tell me what other posts stand out to you? i won't be able to reply but ill be reading as i can

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i mean, I do attribute 1 and 3 to tone a bit. His solving also feels off to me, which i think I expressed.

(don't feel required to respond to this btw, just want my thoughts out there)

I don't have specific posts, it's like his entire body of work is weak for sunbae. I'm used to him diving in more

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Originally Posted by Arctic

ugh I am not at all a fan of me/maple/annika being thrown around as the poe when I think this is easily 0 wolves

normally I'd wolfread someone who talks a lot about their process in place of utilising said process, but i think given Maple's existential crisis in mafia (as benneh described earlier) - i think it tracks, and, quoting from waza too, he feels kinda lost in a villagery way and struggling to make stances in a way that wolf him wouldn't be here given the discussion we related to about how wolfing is a lot easier

annika i could be wrong on but i think her push on benneh just sounds like. she is a girlboss and knows she is town. idk. i'm aware girlbossing is a staple of her wolf game, but it didn't.. really feel like a cat scrambling around kinda defence. i think she believes it. i think she can easily defer to Taffy or me as a wolf here but maple is a kinda novel push here (even tho i think it's wrong) which i'd give points to

i'm trying to put words to two reads which are inherently intuitive so i understand if this doesn't convince anyone, but it's how i feel so >.<

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Fwiw re sunbae I didn't like his post re ender in part due to the lack of full stop at the end (and the vibe of the thing)

Felt like wolf sunbae joke tone

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Originally Posted by Arctic

...wdym it's not opportunistic?? i squinted hard at that lmao. like this take feels so silly to me. it's the type of read that you'd look at in post game and go "how was i so silly to townread a wolf for that". i'm kinda dumbfounded by this. i don't know if it's wilful ignorance but like. i think you're pushing villagers and townreading wolves

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you seem townie on this page/next page

I’m curious why you feel so confidently about Maple eheh
unvote: Maple

also yeah I’m aware that could be a silly TR on Visor i guess

Dya seems okay to me

Vote: Sunbae

:book2:

50 for me -- no idea if ill stick on sunbae but its more fun if we do a science experiment while i'm capped

town (hopefully 0 wolves)
nebjiamn
didistetter
pzelda
waza

towny feels, but could be a wolf here
Visor
dyachei

sliiight town but some concerns
Lissa - i had lissa in a higher tier but some of waza's points actually had me drop her down a bit, there was also just something about how she joined me on annika that felt weird (stett too, but i feel a lot better about stett in comparison)
Arctic - ive liked most of his recent posting even if i don't agree with all of it

null cause 0 posting
Raskolnikov

nullish cause having trouble grasping a read
ladd - would not kill
Maple
Ender - would probably not kill? enough people seem to be TRing him that it feels bad

concern pile
Sunbae
Taffy - this isn't a sheep of ladd (in a sense) -- i re-read their posting last night and decided it did fit in with what ladd and visor were describing and the only reason i tr'd her before was because of some meta assumptions that are incorrect
annika


i don't think all 3 wolves are in my bottom 6 ... probably, well, idk, maybe. i guess i mean i wouldnt be surprised if this list is way off, but this is how i'm viewing the game atm

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Originally Posted by Maple

I don't think you've really talked about me at all, really. What are you feeling?

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this is gonna be an unsatisfying answer but it’s mostly a PoE vote—I townread a lot of other people

your posting is actually fine, just nothing stood out to me as explicitly villagery. well I guess a minor thing is, you talked about being dissatisfied with your town game before anything had really happened which seemed a little off bc…well nothing has gone wrong yet! but I understand that might not be valid and tou could be a townie just voicing general concern without any context in this game

I’m more interested in why Arcy is hard TRing you tbh

I really hate doing this because I love playing with Sunbae

Vote: Sunbae

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Originally Posted by Arctic

if i had a nickel... lmao

but yea. i knew it was uncharitable since u hadn't found anything u believed in yet and i said as such, which is why i'm not super onto your case rn. if this is the one you're gonna choose to believe in then it's not gonna help me much either, though, lol. that post was more of a "idk how to read ender and if i reached maaaybe this is wolfy" but im not gung ho about killing you particularly (i'll just let it happen when you get voted at eod :3)

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I'm just coming back to this and honestly like still don't like it. He was basically shading my approach while qualifying it with "Idk if I'm being uncharitable" (he was) and then when called out by me he was like "Yeah I knew it was uncharitable".

Like? If you know a read is uncharitable (and therefore probably not the most likely to have accuracy joined hand in hand in holy matrimony) why make the read? It basically throws unclear and useless information into the field of play.

Someone is gonna have to prybar me off this vote today unless I see something even worse.

Also as much as Benneh being on my case (again) is annoying it's not ~wolfy of em.

I'm pending more town on his play there so far.

Zelda is town because they are normally a wet noodle as wolf. (Sorry) They are noodling in a dry and solid manner so far as I've read.