Mafia VIII: Return of the Recommencement of the Revenge of the Mafia [Concluded]

If anyone is claiming that I am mafia, they are basically claiming that I trusted Sarathos or Disco or Khaan enough to make it through the entire game.

Just something to keep in mind...

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Originally Posted by Privateerkev

I think we can pretty much eliminate Sasaki as a suspect at this point. He was pushing very hard for the town to lynch Kag earlier. My guess would be Seamus.



A few hours. Say from 10ish CT to 1ish CT.



No, I think you killed Kukri and surrounded yourself with 3 lurkers. You probably hoped that they wouldn't vote. And if they did, you probably hoped they would be easy to heap suspicion onto.

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So you are basically accusing me now of incompetence. Why in the world would i put myself in this kind of situation, when if i would have been mafia, i would have had easy path to victory? Im sure someone is laughing right now from the bottom of his heart.:smash:

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Originally Posted by Kagemusha

So you are basically accusing me now of incompetence. Why in the world would i put myself in this kind of situation, when if i would have been mafia, i would have had easy path to victory? Im sure someone is laughing right now from the bottom of his heart.:smash:

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:shrug:

You simply seem like the best suspect out of the 4.

I do the best I can with the information I have before me. :bow:

Figured that I might as well say that if a mafioso is inactive, I'll allow his partner to send in kills for him regardless of state, but that mafioso is still under threat of being Wogged.

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Originally Posted by Privateerkev

:shrug:

You simply seem like the best suspect out of the 4.

I do the best I can with the information I have before me. :bow:

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Well that just means that you are being played by the mafia. Kudos to him, who ever he is.

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Originally Posted by Kagemusha

Well that just means that you are being played by the mafia. Kudos to him, who ever he is.

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Someone sounds defensive...

If I'm being played, then I'm being played. After the game I'll give the player a "kudos", who ever it is.

But you could very well be attempting to play us as well. All of a sudden your fighting this awful hard.

You didn't have this dedication to the town's survival earlier in the game...

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Originally Posted by Privateerkev

Someone sounds defensive...

If I'm being played, then I'm being played. After the game I'll give the player a "kudos", who ever it is.

But you could very well be attempting to play us as well. All of a sudden your fighting this awful hard.

You didn't have this dedication to the town's survival earlier in the game...

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Maybe it has something to do with the fact that if im lynched we will loose this game?:laugh4:Those who know my play style can tell you that when playing mafia, i mostly observe rather then talk all the time. But now in this situation it is very much up to me, whether we loose or win.

Kage, where were you on the 14th?

I was at Provinssirock rock festival in Seinäjoki Finland during 12th,13rd,14th and 15th.

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Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

Figured that I might as well say that if a mafioso is inactive, I'll allow his partner to send in kills for him regardless of state, but that mafioso is still under threat of being Wogged.

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Yet another tantalizing clue. Why would he even say such a thing, if it hadn't occured?

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Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

Figured that I might as well say that if a mafioso is inactive, I'll allow his partner to send in kills for him regardless of state, but that mafioso is still under threat of being Wogged.

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Hmm. This post is worthy of some consideration.

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Originally Posted by KukriKhan

Yet another tantalizing clue. Why would he even say such a thing, if it hadn't occured?

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Because I want the game to be decided by thread behavior, not mechanics discussions.

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Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

Because I want the game to be decided by thread behavior, not mechanics discussions.

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For the record: I wasn't complaining; I see and agree with your point.

ummm, guys, I'm not so convinced that it is Kagemusha anymore.

Kagemusha voted to lynch Gaius the day he was lynched.
He voted to lynch Seamus the day he was lynched.
He voted to lynch FactionHeir the day he was lynched.
He didn't attempt to save Sasaki during the tiebreaker round.
He abstained on the day Tincow and FactionHeir were tied.(was only on at the very beginning so this might not be conclusive)
He made no attempt to save EliteFerret
And He voted for Privateerkev.(although he was very late on the bandwagon)

So possible partners for Kagemusha are
Peverpink
And a slight possibility that it was Tincow or Privateerkev. However since both of them are calling for his lynch I very much doubt that.

So fellow townies, do you really believe we had a peverpink-Kagemusha mafia?

tally:
Kag: 2 (khaan, sarathos)

Khaan: 1 (Kag)

And I highly doubt pever was Kag's scum-buddy. Pever "revealed" as the detective and called for us to lynch Kag. Ironic given the current situation...

*edit*

Also, Kag did vote for pever. You have to go through the posts and find it since GH never posted the tally for D3.

Well, when it comes down to it we've got two options. First we can believe that GH's first statement was meant to be a hint, then we're looking at disco, Sarathos, and khaan as possible mafiosos with no effective clue as to which is the bad guy. So, there's no ideal choice and we might as well just draw straws to figure out the victim. The other option is to believe that GH really was just trying to take game mechanics out of the decision, stick with our current assumptions about Kage, and just lynch him.

Given the choice between strong evidence against one person and a random choice between three others, I'll go with the strong evidence every time. If we're wrong, then we're wrong, but that doesn't change the fact that it's insanity to do anything else.

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Originally Posted by woad&fangs

He didn't attempt to save Sasaki during the tiebreaker round.

...

So fellow townies, do you really believe we had a peverpink-Kagemusha mafia?

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No, it's likely Sasaki. No speaking up on his behalf is a very long way away from voting for him. It's actually a good tactic when one mafioso is likely to be lynched. Kage is the best option and that's the end result. Second guessing ourselves at this point is more likely to result in an error than continuing with the current trend.

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Originally Posted by TinCow

No, it's likely Sasaki. No speaking up on his behalf is a very long way away from voting for him. It's actually a good tactic when one mafioso is likely to be lynched. Kage is the best option and that's the end result. Second guessing ourselves at this point is more likely to result in an error than continuing with the current trend.

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Again, how do you explain the fact that Sasaki has been pushing us to lynch Kag for awhile?

I do agree we're better off sticking with Kag than reading too much into GH's post.

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

The write up clearly implies that there are 2 mafia alive (this is our last chance etc).

Kagemusha MUST be lynched. He is definitely mafia.

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That doesn't sound very scumbuddyy to me:no:

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Originally Posted by Privateerkev

Again, how do you explain the fact that Sasaki has been pushing us to lynch Kag for awhile?

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Not well, but I wouldn't put it past Sasaki to intentionally try to distance himself from his partner. Perhaps that is why Sasaki's analysis has been so poor throughout the game. He wanted to be seen as anti-Kage, but didn't want to actually sway anyone's opinion.

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Originally Posted by TinCow

Not well, but I wouldn't put it past Sasaki to intentionally try to distance himself from his partner. Perhaps that is why Sasaki's analysis has been so poor throughout the game. He wanted to be seen as anti-Kage, but didn't want to actually sway anyone's opinion.

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Sasaki has seemed very much "off his game" this time around. Not at all like the Sasaki I came to fear and respect in Taormina.

But he was throwing suspicion onto Kag at a point when no one else was really looking at Kag. It seems unlikely for mafia to intentionally draw attention to their scum-buddy. Plus, when Sasaki and I were mafia together in Taormina, he went out of his way to protect me.

I would be willing to entertain a thought of someone other than Kage if we could actually find some evidence that singles out one of the others. If we just have to pick randomly, it's best just to go with Kage. If we can find something solid that points toward a specific one of the other three, then it's worth considering.

I have found all 4 of them suspicious at some point in time during the game.

Khaan was playing it cool in the beginning, got a little defensive against me when pressed, and then went AFK for over a week.

Sarathos was goofing off, threw a vote solely because of my opinion, and then got defensive against me when I called him on it. And he's been absent a lot.

Disco has been goofing off and absent a lot.

But it's Kag who is setting my radar off the most now. He lays low during the early game, is absent during the middle game, and then all of a sudden comes out of no where and picks a fight with Curio using weak evidence. Then the game ends up with an active Kag and 3 lurkers.

Sarathos and Kag have each missed 3 votes. Khaan has missed 4. And Disco has missed 5. And when I say "missed", I mean they hadn't even posted for that day phase.

The relative lack of activity in this game has gotten me down... -_-

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Originally Posted by TinCow

I would be willing to entertain a thought of someone other than Kage if we could actually find some evidence that singles out one of the others. If we just have to pick randomly, it's best just to go with Kage. If we can find something solid that points toward a specific one of the other three, then it's worth considering.

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Tincow. Could you please elaborate what is this "strong case" against me? The fact that you cant seem to find a mafia buddy to me? That last nights kills were different of how i would have played as mafia? Why would i put myself in situation where im supposedly the only suspicious person alive and make myself a automatic voting target by that? Is this attack of yours against me a smoke screen to cover your own mafia buddy? I think i will have a look at your voting patterns and see if anything interesting will surface from there and i suggest others to do so also.

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Originally Posted by Privateerkev

The relative lack of activity in this game has gotten me down... -_-

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Yep. The way I feel at the moment, I wouldn't mind losing to khaan, Sarathos, or disco, simply because they would have won by doing essentially nothing at all. That doesn't seem like too bad a failing on the town's part when we had to rely completely on in-thread posts because there was only one pro-town role and that person died before accomplishing anything. When you've got 50% of the players lurking, is it really our fault for not lynching the right lurker? In contrast, if Kage is the mafioso and we don't lynch him, I'll feel like a nitwit for not going after the completely obvious choice at the very end of the game.:shrug:

Tincow.Oh it seems that in the round when you and Factionheir were tied, Makaikhaan voted Factionheir. Also the next round when you were executed Makaikhaan voted Factionheir, also Sarathos voted Factionheir, but Makaikhaan voted to save you during both rounds. Do you two by accident have a some kind of connection?

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Originally Posted by Kagemusha

Tincow.Oh it seems that in the round when you and Factionheir were tied, Makaikhaan voted Factionheir. Also the next round when you were executed Makaikhaan voted Factionheir, also Sarathos voted Factionheir, but Makaikhaan voted to save you during both rounds. Do you two by accident have a some kind of connection?

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Yes, we're both mafioso. Sorry, was that a rhetorical question? Your evidence against khaan is that he voted to save me twice in the same day phase? Well, hell. We better establish a connection between khaan and everyone else he didn't vote for as well. :inquisitive:

Interesting point Kag...

Look at D2:

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Elite Ferret: 5 (TinCow, makaikhaan, LittleGrizzly, Beefy187, Seamus Fermanagh)
FactionHeir: 2 (woad&fangs, Gaius Scribonius Curio)

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now D4:

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FactionHeir: 3 (TinCow, makaikhaan, Gaius Scribonius Curio)
TinCow: 3 (Sasaki Kojiro, Beefy187, FactionHeir)

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then D4A:

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TinCow: 8 (FactionHeir, Sigurd Fafnesbane, CountArach, discovery1, Sasaki Kojiro, shlin28, Kommodus, Joe Monks)
FactionHeir: 5 (Gaius Scribonius Curio, Sarathos, makaikhaan, Quintus.J.Cicero, TinCow)

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So, on D2, when TC was not up for the lynch, Khaan and TC both voted to lynch EF instead of FH. But once FH was lynch competition with TC, Khaan and TC both voted to lynch FH.

TC of course is expected to try to save himself. (Though I still argue that he tried a little too hard to save himself.)

But I would like an explanation from Khaan about this...

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Originally Posted by TinCow

Yes, we're both mafioso. Sorry, was that a rhetorical question? Your evidence against khaan is that he voted to save me twice in the same day phase? Well, hell. We better establish a connection between khaan and everyone else he didn't vote for as well. :inquisitive:

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It seems you two have acted in coordination on other occasions as well, like Kev just kindly showed.~:)

Oh Kag is far from off the hook in my mind.

Everyone seems suspicious to me. The question is a matter of degrees...

PK, I think given GH's statement, we should really consider that the mafia may have had only one person sending in all the kills when they could and their buddy sending it in the other times. Basically unless both were absent during the same time period (and that should encompass 2 day phases), there is a possibility of a link.

Also, that a dead mafia can still send in orders when his living buddy doesn't causes a great problem: Lynchees don't tend to post a lot with some exceptions.

I think now, at this very end of the game, we should maybe give the word riddle another try. The extended day phase gives us time.

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Originally Posted by FactionHeir

PK, I think given GH's statement, we should really consider that the mafia may have had only one person sending in all the kills when they could and their buddy sending it in the other times. Basically unless both were absent during the same time period (and that should encompass 2 day phases), there is a possibility of a link.

Also, that a dead mafia can still send in orders when his living buddy doesn't causes a great problem: Lynchees don't tend to post a lot with some exceptions.

I think now, at this very end of the game, we should maybe give the word riddle another try. The extended day phase gives us time.

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All of those points are good ones.

As for the letters, someone else can gather the info. I don't mean to come off as a grump but I have been doing the bulk of the data gathering this game. I've spent whole evenings after work combing through posts, summaries, and voting records. Only to see my data largely ignored and to watch person after person come in and say things like, "oh sorry I've been really busy" or "oh I must be mafia, hur hur hur" or "whoo-hoo! bandwagon!"

The town's overall performance has been abysmal in my humble opion. Too many people sign up only to dissapear. Many just want to joke around. Most dissapear after they die as if the game is over or something.

I admit doing well in this game is hard work but to me the fun is in figuring out that which is unknown. As a townie, I want to be a detective and try to glean a vital clue from all the mud in here. I don't mind that the mafia make things difficult. That is their job. But I get tired of townies making the game harder because they are busy, lazy, bored, or whatever. And I don't mean new players. They are excused. But many people here have a pattern of signing up and then not committing to the game, or even worse, trying to mess with the game just for fun.

:brood:

Now that's a rant I can get behind. I had a conversation with Sasaki once where he explained to me that the reason he always goes mafia if he can is because people tend to put in a poor effort as townies on this forum. I think that's a pretty good summary of this game. Unless people get a nice shiny role, most don't care at all. I would personally be up for assembling a hand-picked list of dedicated players and running a few games with only those people. They might be smaller, but they would probably be far more interesting for those of us who like to commit a bit of thought to them.

I do not understand the people that sign up in hope of getting a role, and then go absent when they find out they're a townie.

I have had more fun as a dead townie in this game and drunk-lawyer than I had as power-town in star wars mafia or as mafia in Taormina. (though I certainly had fun in those games).

To me, being a dead townie is fun. (I've never been a live townie.)

As a townie, the game is a big mystery to unravel. With a little help with data gathering and analysis, and some coordination, the town can really give the mafia a run for their money. You don't need a role.

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Originally Posted by TinCow

Now that's a rant I can get behind. I had a conversation with Sasaki once where he explained to me that the reason he always goes mafia if he can is because people tend to put in a poor effort as townies on this forum. I think that's a pretty good summary of this game. Unless people get a nice shiny role, most don't care at all. I would personally be up for assembling a hand-picked list of dedicated players and running a few games with only those people. They might be smaller, but they would probably be far more interesting for those of us who like to commit a bit of thought to them.

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I'm against this idea. This system would forever divide the Gameroom into tiers of players, and since the "good" players are only going to play games with fellow "good" players, there'd be no chance for new players to break in and many games would die violent deaths.

I don't think the key here is isolation so much as it is leading by example.

But I digress... back to the game! :yes:

It's definately khaan.

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Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

I'm against this idea. This system would forever divide the Gameroom into tiers of players, and since the "good" players are only going to play games with fellow "good" players, there'd be no chance for new players to break in and many games would die violent deaths.

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What about the opposite instead?

Have a game called "random mafia" where all votes can only be decided using random.org.

Or "lurker mafia" where you can only join if you promise not to post. First guy WoG'd wins.

Or "meatball mafia" where any serious vote is forbidden. You can only vote if you have no good reason.

Or a game that combines all three themes.

That would keep the "regular" games open for everyone who wants to actually play without it becoming elitist.

(I'm not being sarcastic either. I'm seriously proposing this.) :beam:

*edit*

And I'm not talking about excluding anyone from the "regular" games. But it is obvious that some people have different conceptions of mafia games. My hope is, if those people get an outlet to play mafia a certain way, they'll either avoid the "regular" game or tone down the meatballing/lurking/randomness when they do join a regular game.

Yeah, the silence of the lurkers is annoying. But it happens in every mafia game I've signed up for, and very often one or more of them are mafia. So I've come to accept it as the way the game is played. Maybe now you understand why I try to mount a "kill the lurkers" campaign early-on. Sure, true non-participants will be WoG'd, and we want all our lynch votes to count, and be intelligent choices.

But that tried-and-true strategy of "lay-low, play slow" until the endgame seems to work, so players are gonna use it. Just like "camping" and "red zoning" in the MP totalwar games.

I've had a family emergency pop up that's gonna make me afk from tomorrow through Sunday, so I'll miss the end of the game. Good luck town. Hang in there. :2thumbsup:

If I were still alive, I'd vote Kagemusha. He doth protest too much.

Take care, man. Family emergencies are never fun.

Take care Kukri. O fcourse you would protest also if you knew the town was about to loose the game.~;)

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Originally Posted by KukriKhan

Maybe now you understand why I try to mount a "kill the lurkers" campaign early-on.

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No, you seem to go after the lurkers while ignoring what has actually been said or analyzed in the thread. There needs to be a balance. A semi-active or active mafia would love for there to be a massive "kill the lurkers" campaign. When I was mafia in Taormina, I was overjoyed to watch you campaign against lurkers even when you were dead. It helped take heat off of me. :D

BTW, I hope the family thing turns out ok. :yes:

Vote:Privateerkev

*sigh*

Do you guys think a Disco-Sasaki pairing is possible?

Ok i will have to soon go to sleep,have to work tomorrow. So disco! Here is what you need:

https://img528.imageshack.us/img528/...agonqr2uh4.gif

You need to save the town from these lurking mafia bastards vote Makaikhaan, once we have a tie we can crack this mafia down, otherwise we will loose.:shame:

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Originally Posted by woad&fangs

Do you guys think a Disco-Sasaki pairing is possible?

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I don't think they'd have a choice.

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Originally Posted by woad&fangs

Do you guys think a Disco-Sasaki pairing is possible?

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Doubtful.

Disco piled onto Sasaki during the pointless bandwagon on him on D1. And Disco was absent when Sasaki was tied for the lynch on D5.

Yes, but he had already declared he would follow the bandwagon smiley. If it was offered on day 1 and he didn't follow it then him and Sasaki would have been lynched immediatly. In that situation, trusting Sasaki's to get himself out of the bandwagon would be the obvious choice.

As it stands I can see the following situations

Disco-Sasaki
Makaikhaan-Tincow
Kage-?(seriously, who could it be?)

I can't find any real link between Sarathos and the lynchees plus I simply don't think he is good enough to fool us as completely as this mafia has.

btw, Dear Mafioso, whoever you may be. You have played an excellant game and probably deserve to win regardless of whether we lynch you or not. :bow:

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Originally Posted by woad&fangs

Yes, but he had already declared he would follow the bandwagon smiley. If it was offered on day 1 and he didn't follow it then him and Sasaki would have been lynched immediatly. In that situation, trusting Sasaki's to get himself out of the bandwagon would be the obvious choice.

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But he was still missing when Sasaki was tied for the lynch on D5:

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Sasaki Kojiro: 2 (makaikhaan, Seamus Fermanagh)
Kommodus: 2 (Gaius Scribonius Curio, Sigurd Fafnesbane)

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Here is D5A:

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Sasaki Kojiro: 5 (Ichigo, Seamus Fermanagh, Gaius Scribonius Curio, KukriKhan, CountArach)
Kommodus: 3 (Sasaki Kojiro, discovery1, Sigurd Fafnesbane)

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The only person who really tried to save Sasaki was Sigurd who was later murdered.

Also keep in mind that Sasaki abstained in D5 when he was tied for the lynch. My guess is that he was innocent.

Well, there isn't any reason why Kage-pever isn't possible. It was scoffed at before, and it is unlikely, but not impossible.

I would also look for links between any of the surviving 4 and Seamus. I just can't shake the notion that he was our lynched mafioso.

The case against 'khaan:

He's a lurker, using a convenient absence just like Andres used a move -- to lay low with a verifiable excuse. In his favor, going that close to WOG status is not a good protection tool -- and a little risky for any mafios.

The case against Sara':

He's a lurker, using absence to lay low. Again, the risk of WOG is a mitigating here as GH WOULD WOG a mafiaoso just as readily as anyone else.

The case against Kage':

Sharp player, always around and pushing but never really taking a coordinated analytical effort. A classic mafia ploy -- being helpful but never quite enough. In his favor, his posting frew and style are fairly close to the baseline.

The case against Disco':

He's managed to vote every other session (more or less) save for these last two. In the past, he's tended to vote more regularly (if just as flippantly) or missed several votes in a row (and has been wogged for same).
Also, if you believe 'Kev is mafia, then Disco' is his partner. Disco is the only one I can think of, aside from Sasaki, who'd consider a "offer up your partner round one so that he's a mostly credible foil" gambit (and Sasaki's not suited to the passive partner role by inclination).


And no, I am not saying this to protect my mafia partner, because I am not/was not a mafioso in this game.

Sarathos posted on BR but not on here :wall:

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

Disco is the only one I can think of, aside from Sasaki, who'd consider a "offer up your partner round one so that he's a mostly credible foil" gambit (and Sasaki's not suited to the passive partner role by inclination).

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Seamus, I'm mortified! :shocked: I must be slipping.

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

Also, if you believe 'Kev is mafia, then Disco' is his partner. Disco is the only one I can think of, aside from Sasaki, who'd consider a "offer up your partner round one so that he's a mostly credible foil" gambit (and Sasaki's not suited to the passive partner role by inclination).

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I quite simply do not trust Disco enough to have faith that he could last a whole game without getting himself lynched.

I would trust Sasaki or TC enough to pull that off. But there is no one left alive that I would try that gambit with.

If I was mafia in this game, with Disco as my partner, I would try to stay alive because I would fear that his goofing-off-meatball-votes would get him lynched. :yes:

IMO, it has to still be Kage or Disco.

I'm still convinced that it is Kage!

So with this in mind... Disco you need to vote Kage to save the town!

(And to make sure... ... ...Gah I can't find it! (The bandwagon smiley that is) This will have to do: :end:)

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Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

Seamus, I'm mortified! :shocked: I must be slipping.

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Apologies mine host!

You have the nerve and the verve to try virtually anything -- and have bested me in single combat when I held all the cards! -- but I failed to list you as you are always the host in these games where the classic 1/2 mafia = 2 kills apply and hence when such a gambit might be valid.

No offense intended.

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Originally Posted by Privateerkev

I quite simply do not trust Disco enough to have faith that he could last a whole game without getting himself lynched.

I would trust Sasaki or TC enough to pull that off. But there is no one left alive that I would try that gambit with.

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I appreciate the compliment, but I certainly was trying to not be lynched in this game and that didn't work out so well. While getting yourself intentionally lynched first round is an interesting and absurdly bold strategy for a mafioso duo, it relies so heavily on luck that I would (probably) never try it.

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Originally Posted by TinCow

I appreciate the compliment, but I certainly was trying to not be lynched in this game and that didn't work out so well. While getting yourself intentionally lynched first round is an interesting and absurdly bold strategy for a mafioso duo, it relies so heavily on luck that I would (probably) never try it.

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No, I meant I would trust you or Sasaki to stay alive by yourselves as mafia while I go and suicide the first turn.

I certainly wouldn't trust many others enough to live through the whole game alone as mafia.

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Originally Posted by Gaius Scribonius Curio

IMO, it has to still be Kage or Disco.

I'm still convinced that it is Kage!

So with this in mind... Disco you need to vote Kage to save the town!

(And to make sure... ... ...Gah I can't find it! (The bandwagon smiley that is) This will have to do: :end:)

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Eh, bandwagon only works with it comes the players official vote. That and I think you were mafia. Course I am also starting to suspect Kage.

Also im starting to think that maybe this last round I shouldn't goof off. But if I do that I'm probably dead.

Finally I'm thinking what I will do is just pick a player at random at the last second, or maybe pick on ichi for his bad connection.

So that I have seemingly appeared from nowhere but I have a similar story to Makaikhaan, this is the first time I have been in a computer in about a week. My family insist on travelling a lot on the holidays.....

Another reason why I appeared is that GH pmed me saying that I was one of the last four and needed to vote. It is a critical time and I don't want to dissapoint you guys anymore than I have.

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Ichigo
Bid on Ichigo now! Find Animation Art, Characters.

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On the ad at the top of the page...

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Originally Posted by Privateerkev

I admit doing well in this game is hard work but to me the fun is in figuring out that which is unknown. As a townie, I want to be a detective and try to glean a vital clue from all the mud in here. I don't mind that the mafia make things difficult. That is their job. But I get tired of townies making the game harder because they are busy, lazy, bored, or whatever. And I don't mean new players. They are excused. But many people here have a pattern of signing up and then not committing to the game, or even worse, trying to mess with the game just for fun.

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I would just like to take this opportunity to apologize to GH and all the players for not taking part in this game after signing up. I'm Sorry. :shame:

I want you guys to know, especially those who haven't played with me before, that this is not my normal pattern at all. What can I say? Life is changing, priorities are changing. If I sign up for mafia games in the future, I'll make sure I am able to participate. My ignoble exit from this game was well-deserved.

I've spent some time this evening looking over the missing/added letters in GH's posts. I haven't found a solid clue in them yet, but I would like to point out one thing. In certain cases, a word that is missing letters in one place appears elsewhere with the missing letters added back in. For example, the word "sufficiency" is incorrectly spelled in two places as follows:

suffiency
sufficiciency

So the "ci" is missing in the first case and added in the second.

I've found a total of only four places where this is the case:

suffiency/sufficiciency (missing letters = CI)
comission/commmission (missing letters = M)
extraordinare/extraordinaiire (missing letters = I)
occured/occurrred (missing letters = R)

Add all these together and you get CIMIR. Which means, well, nothing at all to me. :dizzy2:

After reviewing the remaining four suspects, it is my opinion that Kagemusha is mafia. Though it could also be discovery1, given this obviously incorrect reasoning:

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Originally Posted by discovery1

Hell our complete and utter lack of participation is a sign of not being mafia. After all, mafia would probably care enough to participate, don't you agree Gaius Scribonius Curio?

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Disco has been posting very sparsely all game long, but there haven't been many rounds in which he hasn't posted at all (just one by my count), and he's never been under any sort of pressure. To me, it looks very much like he could be employing a particular strategy.

So either Kagemusha or discovery1. It would probably be better if those who, unlike me, have been paying attention all along to make the choice.

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Originally Posted by Kommodus

Disco has been posting very sparsely all game long, but there haven't been many rounds in which he hasn't posted at all (just one by my count), and he's never been under any sort of pressure. To me, it looks very much like he could be employing a particular strategy.

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Disco has missed 5 rounds, not 1. I go by GH's terms for voting. If you post during the day phase at all, but do not vote, he puts you down as "abstain". If you do not post at all during that day phase, then you "didn't vote". So, any "no votes" in my table mean that player was missing for that entire day period.

Sadly Disco's absences aren't the worst. There were WoG's where people had missed at least 6 day phases before being WoG'd. And strangely, there was one WoG (Fenring) that only missed 3. So, I guess GH is not using a set specific criteria for WoGging.

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Originally Posted by Privateerkev

edit: [snip] (table can't be quoted)

There was one WoG (Fenring) that only missed 3.

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Really? ...

This paints an interesting picture. My guess is that Fenrig was WoG'ed for 3 consecutive no votes and not 3 in total.
But using that criteria both khaan and Kage should be in trouble.
If you take away the extra votes (tie votes) only khaan is in trouble. To be fair he should meet the same fate that met Fenrig, yet he is still alive.
More lenient towards Mafiosi GH?

Heh, this should be the norm in future games. WoG townies early and mafiosi late. That way the lurking mafiosi will stand out like a sore thumb.

Hmmm CIMIR.

Up to D5a: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=804
N6: E
D6: assumed to be complete
N7:
consiidering (added i)
Unfortnately (missing u)
suffciciency (added c)
commmissions (added m)
Extraordinaiire (aaded i)
stuffd (missing e)
occurrred (aaded r)

Can someone find the letters of the rest writeups? Or did Kommodus have a list of all somewhere?

Have we tried to do the letter puzzle, but remove the 'added' letters? For instance, if an I is missing at one point, but then is added later on, have we tried removing the I from the sequence altogether? (I seriously can't remember.)

In my first linked post I have.

I still believe that the mafia is Makaikhaan and Tincow. Khaan might have been actually absent while Tincow have orchestrated the mafia actions. It seems more clear more i think about it. Tincow could easily come up with the smokescreen like the word puzzle. Also he seems determined to get me lynched, while he couldnt answer what he is basing his statements like "there is strong evidence against Kagemusha. The thread also gives away that Khaan and Tincow have acted in unison, seemingly protecting one another and voting different persons on different rounds to keep each other alive.

For my part. The strongest defense i can make is that those who know how i play these games, should understand that as mafia i would not put myself in this kind of situation, where im the obvious lynch bait, for example Sarathos, you should know as we have been in the same mafia team. Has it been me the mafia, i would have used Kukri as lynch bait.

To the people who criticise me of not being helpful or not being enough helpful. If being helpful means that i should post voting patterns through out the game or how many posts people make and judge them based on that who is the mafia, i have one word for you, Holmes.

Kommodus can vouch me on this because last time when we were mafia partners, Kommodus run Holmes on me through out the game in testing purposes. His judgement was that i didnt look guilty at all based on that method. So i apologize for not conducting such observation on players via method i think one can fool.

So to Sarathos and disco. Think these things. The main issue being, if i would be mafia, would i have played the end game like this. Also look carefully those who are most eager to get me lynched and try to find a motivation for their behavior. My vote is placed and it will not move, unless something rather amazing happens, think about how well you have thought who you have voted or are going to vote.:bow:

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Originally Posted by Woads&Fangs

I can't find any real link between Sarathos and the lynchees plus I simply don't think he is good enough to fool us as completely as this mafia has.

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:shame:

You have a very good point there Kage, but I am still unsure whether to believe it or not.

I am going to take a risk and Unvote:Kagemusha and Vote:Makaikhaan. I have had time to think this over, Maka using his usual tactics the link between TinCow and Makaikhaan does sound very believable.

While the reasoning may be faulty behind the vote change, I do think that khaan is the best choice between the three lurkers. If we absolutely have to lynch one of those three, he would be my preference as well. I still think Kage is the best choice, but there is still some hope of a victory if khaan is stretched.

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Originally Posted by Privateerkev

Disco has missed 5 rounds, not 1. I go by GH's terms for voting. If you post during the day phase at all, but do not vote, he puts you down as "abstain". If you do not post at all during that day phase, then you "didn't vote". So, any "no votes" in my table mean that player was missing for that entire day period.

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I was going by posts during the entire round, including night phases. By that method, disco has missed only one round entirely (I think round 2). I don't recall GH's exact criteria for WoGing, but from memory I think disco's minimalist level of participation would be enough to spare him from the axe.

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Originally Posted by Kagemusha

Tincow could easily come up with the smokescreen like the word puzzle.

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See, this is what I don't get about you, Kage. GH promised some sort of "twist" at the start of this game. This is the final round, and the word puzzle is the only candidate we have so far for being that twist. The statements in French are always part of Beirut's pronouncements, not part of the mafia's kills, and in GH's games the mafia have never had the sort of total control over the writeups that would be required to create a word puzzle like this.

So what makes you so convinced that the puzzle is the invention of the mafia?

I tried taking the list of removed letters, then subtracting from that list the letters that were added back into the four words I mentioned in my earlier post (CIMIR). The resulting jumbled list of letters appeared to almost contain the word INVESTIGATE (except that it was short one T; maybe I'd missed something?). After subtracting the letters of the word INVESTIGATE, I was left with the following letters:

SANSUE

Which, again, means nothing to me. :shrug:

EDIT: Also, what do people think of makaikhaan's very long absence? Usually in GH games, both mafiosi have to send in kills in order to get two kills (unless one of them is dead and the survivor is doing everything). Khaan just vanished for an extended period of time. I would like to know why he's under suspicion.

GH did say in the second french note how not all letters are relevant and some need to be added.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kommodus

EDIT: Also, what do people think of makaikhaan's very long absence? Usually in GH games, both mafiosi have to send in kills in order to get two kills (unless one of them is dead and the survivor is doing everything). Khaan just vanished for an extended period of time. I would like to know why he's under suspicion.

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GH said that if a mafioso was absent, his dead partner could send in orders. That fragged our innocence via absence assumptions:

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Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

Figured that I might as well say that if a mafioso is inactive, I'll allow his partner to send in kills for him regardless of state, but that mafioso is still under threat of being Wogged.

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Originally Posted by Kommodus

I was going by posts during the entire round, including night phases. By that method, disco has missed only one round entirely (I think round 2). I don't recall GH's exact criteria for WoGing, but from memory I think disco's minimalist level of participation would be enough to spare him from the axe.



See, this is what I don't get about you, Kage. GH promised some sort of "twist" at the start of this game. This is the final round, and the word puzzle is the only candidate we have so far for being that twist. The statements in French are always part of Beirut's pronouncements, not part of the mafia's kills, and in GH's games the mafia have never had the sort of total control over the writeups that would be required to create a word puzzle like this.

So what makes you so convinced that the puzzle is the invention of the mafia?

I tried taking the list of removed letters, then subtracting from that list the letters that were added back into the four words I mentioned in my earlier post (CIMIR). The resulting jumbled list of letters appeared to almost contain the word INVESTIGATE (except that it was short one T; maybe I'd missed something?). After subtracting the letters of the word INVESTIGATE, I was left with the following letters:

SANSUE

Which, again, means nothing to me. :shrug:

EDIT: Also, what do people think of makaikhaan's very long absence? Usually in GH games, both mafiosi have to send in kills in order to get two kills (unless one of them is dead and the survivor is doing everything). Khaan just vanished for an extended period of time. I would like to know why he's under suspicion.

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The sole reason being that i dont think GH would mess up mafias game, since this format is hard enough as it is. The word game takes the attention of the smart uns. They focus on it, because they like to solve puzzles and itsd just normal to have a hope off some help even if it wouldnt be there. In my mind it looks like a perfect distraction.

12 hours left.

I think it's Kage. Disco is also suspicious, but not as much.

Sarathos - If Makai is mafia that mean's there's two mafiosos left, making this phase meaningless, as someone would've had to send the kill orders to GH. So we can ignore him. (I think, anyway.)

To me, being gone for a week or more is not his usual tactics.

CR

I am honestly shocked and apalled that it is the end phase and we aren't even using correct information to form our opinions.

The word game is GH's doing. He promised a twist, that is it. It is constantly being referenced in the lynch writeups which the mafia have no control over.

Makaikhaan can be mafia because his dead partner can send kills in his absence.

Makaikhaan going MIA for a week was because of an unexpected event coming up. He thought he would have internet connection and he did not. His absence means nothing towards his innocence or guilt.

okay, ranting over.

Kommodus, could you run a Holmes scan on the remaining 4 players?

Our theory of makaikhaan being mafia revolves around his partner being TinCow. TinCow just said he was okay with makaikhaan being lynched. Is this a clever case of reverse psychology or are they not really partners?

On an individual basis I think Kagemusha is acting the most scummy out of the remaining players but I still can't rap my head around who his partner might be so I've got to give him the benefit of the doubt.

I agree with CR and W&F.

It's probably Kag.

Lynch him and get this over with.

But who is his partner?

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Originally Posted by woad&fangs

But who is his partner?

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Don't know. But since his partner is dead, that is less important at the moment.

Does anyone have a tally from the day Seamus was lynched?